ACTN3, hardgainers, training for the burn

[cwd]

https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-h ... escription

I wonder if people more training-research savvy than me can say if there's anything to what Thibaudeau says here. To summarize the part I care about:

One gene, ACTN3, has a "bad variant" and if you have two copies of this variant, you are a "hardgainer". You'll get less growth from training, have a high ratio of slow-twitch muscle fibers, recover slowly from muscle damage, and tend to high cortisol/inflammation levels.

His prescription for such unfortunate people is:

* fewer sets per session (by bodybuilder standards), but high frequency, like 3x/week each muscle group
* lower intensity (avoid much work over 80% 1RM)
* train for the "burn" (sets with light weight close to failure) -- example, 20-rep squats
* bulk harder to get growth, and eat carbs pre/post workout to recover
* lower expectations because genetics aren't fixable
* consume a lot of expensive supplements (obligatory, because T-nation)

---
I know that some people are less "training sensitive" to use BBM terminology, I'm one of them.

I'm very skeptical that one gene with two variants explains very much. Most traits are controlled by thousands of genes.

Most importantly, do "training insensitive" people benefit from a divergent style of programming, as opposed to just having to do more sets per session and for more months to get the same growth?

Should I bulk hard and do 20-rep squats 3x/week this winter?

[Hanley]

Super interesting.

I'm becoming predictable, but I'd love to see a "hard- gainer thread" in which participants implement these ideas.

[cwd]

I'm already doing some of it.

From all the programming experiments I've tried so far, I respond to the exact opposite of the BBRx Baker/Sullivan high-intensity/low-volume/low-frequency for old people thing.

The more I train like Jack Lalanne rather than a thrower or dianabol-fueled-90's-powerlifter, the better I feel. Thinking about going whole-hog with sets to failure at like 50%.

[AustinD]

Interesting. How would you set that up? Squat for one set of 20 three times per week?

Do a push, pull, and leg exercise for one set of 20 @3x per week frequency?

[Hanley]

Squat for one set of 20 three times per week?

God, that sounds awful.

[AustinD]

Squat for one set of 20 three times per week?

God, that sounds awful.

Lmao, it really does. Dunno if recovering from that is feasible or not.

[BenM]

Funny, as I have just started doing 20 rep squats.... only once a week though.

[Cody]

His prescription for such unfortunate people is:

1 fewer sets per session (by bodybuilder standards), but high frequency, like 3x/week each muscle group
2 lower intensity (avoid much work over 80% 1RM)
3 train for the "burn" (sets with light weight close to failure) -- example, 20-rep squats
4 bulk harder to get growth, and eat carbs pre/post workout to recover
5 lower expectations because genetics aren't fixable
6 consume a lot of expensive supplements (obligatory, because T-nation)

1 and 2 are basically what the "novice program" from Egypt call for the first couple months. Frequent exposure to the lifts is ideal in a novice for several reasons (not just "hard gainers").

3 is fucking stupid. If you're doing 20 rep sets, you're not stimulating the T2 fibers very well now are you. It also encourages form breakdown towards the end of the sets. Stupid.

4 like a gallon of milk a day? Where else have I heard this?

5 that's fucking stupid too. You don't know what their expectations are to begin with. No one knows what their genetic limit is. Why encourage mental restrictions? That's the definition of a "nocebo."

6 "obligatory, because T-nation" - bingo.

[quark]

* fewer sets per session (by bodybuilder standards), but high frequency, like 3x/week each muscle group

Consider Nuckols on training frequency, discussed at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1863

Most hardgainers are people who tend to be anxious over-thinkers that produce more cortisol

I'd bet there are a lot of people across the training sensitivity spectrum who are anxious over-thinkers.

[Hanley]

anxious over-thinkers.

Oh, hi

[quark]

anxious over-thinkers.

Oh, hi

[waves back]

[BenM]

Me too.

[iamsmu]

Here's the example of the low volume / high frequency program that he links to.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-b ... al-lifters

He cut outs the evil last sets he has programmed for the worry warts. I guess he has them just do another normal set.

I'm pretty sure that I could get adjusted to this in about a week or two and it would have absolutely no benefit after that point.

Sets of 6 on lateral raises? and cable cross overs? and front raises?

--------------------------------

The Program
This program is unconventional, at least when compared to most modern-day plans, but how has conventional been working for you so far?

Monday – Workout A1
Romanian Deadlift:  2 sets of 6 and one all-out heavy double rest/pause set
Pronated Lat Pulldown or Pull-Up:  2 sets of 6 and one all-out heavy double rest/pause set
Bent-Over Lateral:  2 sets of 8 and one 6-8-10 drop set
Standing Barbell Curl:  2 sets of 6 and one all-out heavy double rest/pause set

Tuesday – Workout B1
Front Squat:  2 sets of 6 and one all-out heavy double rest/pause set
Bench Press:  2 sets of 6 and one all-out heavy double rest/pause set
Dumbbell Lateral Raise:  2 sets of 6 and one 6-8-10 drop set
Lying Dumbbell Triceps Extension:  2 sets of 6 and one maximum mTor activation set

Wednesday – Workout A2
Lying Leg Curl:  2 sets of 6 and one 6-8-10 drop set
Straight-Arm Pulldown or Dumbbell Pullover:  2 sets of 6 and one maximum mTor activation set
Pronated Chest-Supported Row:  2 sets of 8 and one all-out heavy double rest/pause set
Preacher Curl:  2 sets of 6 and one maximum mTor activation set

Thursday – Workout B2
Leg Extension:  2 sets of 6 and one 6-8-10 drop set
Pec Deck or Cable Crossover:  2 sets of 6 and one maximum mTor activation set
Military Press or Dumbbell Shoulder Press:  2 sets of 6 and one all-out heavy double rest/pause set
Close-Grip Decline Bench Press or Dip:  2 sets of 6 and one all-out heavy double rest/pause set

Friday – Workout A3
Glute Ham Raise or Reverse Hyper:  2 sets of 6 and one maximum mTor activation set
Supinated Lat Pulldown:  2 sets of 6 and one 6-8-10 drop set
Neutral-Grip Cable Seated Row:  2 sets of 6 and one maximum mTor activation set
Dumbbell Hammer Curl:  2 sets of 6 and one 6-8-10 drop set

Saturday – Workout B3
Hack Squat Machine or Leg Press:  2 sets of 6 and one maximum mTor activation set
Incline Bench Press or Incline Dumbbell Press:  2 sets of 6 and one 6-8-10 drop set
Dumbbell Front Raise on Incline Bench:  2 sets of 6 and one maximum mTor activation set
Rope Triceps Extension:  2 sets of 6 and one 6-8-10 drop set

[Allentown]

PlazZzma?

[cwd]

Funny, as I have just started doing 20 rep squats.... only once a week though.

What's your squat/deadlift program look like? How is it going? Do you consider yourself a slow gainer?

[cwd]

Squat for one set of 20 three times per week?

God, that sounds awful.

Lmao, it really does. Dunno if recovering from that is feasible or not.

I'm tempted to try it. I recover better from 4x8 than from 5x3 squats, both at RPE 8 on last set across. Heavy singles and triples beat me up.

Upper body seems OK with high intensity, lower-body has trouble.

[Hanley]

Squat for one set of 20 three times per week?

God, that sounds awful.

Lmao, it really does. Dunno if recovering from that is feasible or not.

I'm tempted to try it. I recover better from 4x8 than from 5x3 squats, both at RPE 8 on last set across. Heavy singles and triples beat me up.

Upper body seems OK with high intensity, lower-body has trouble.

What about 2 squat sessions per week: 1x20 & 2x~12 using the same load?

3 sessions of 20s? Man. [Shudders].

[iamsmu]

Having done a set of 20 last night, I'm pretty sure that there would be lots and lots of excuses for why I couldn't workout if I had to do those 3 times a week.

How should someone choose the load for sets of 20? I've seen someone take a weight you can do 12 times or so and then do a set of 20 with some longer pauses at the top between reps. I chose something lighter (probably ~60%) just to experiment with. . . . Depending on how long I can pause, I could probably do an 5-8RM 20 times. Maybe. It would be silly though.

[cwd]

I'll have to experiment, I guess. Never done 20-rep squats.

[Hanley]

probably ~60%

Yeah. 55-60%