Training Forum Quotes HERE

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#21

Post by mgil » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:12 pm

EricK wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:30 am ...But we have to work with what we got towards what we want and not what we want to just get stuck with what we have.

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#22

Post by Allentown » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:43 am

IMO, the Hanley Fatigue Metric, the Hanley 48 Recovery Principle, and that "simple RPE" chart that I think @Nikipedia posted should be in here. I tried to figure it out but I couldn't do it, I r dum.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#23

Post by Allentown » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:21 am

That's it! I think that is a useful and valuable post.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#24

Post by mbasic » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:50 am

Allentown wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:21 am That's it! I think that is a useful and valuable post.
there is one version of the RPE scale where 9.5 = you could've NOT done another rep, but you could have done a tiny bit more weight.
I like that for 9.5.

Especially at heavier weights (1@8, 1@9), there's a lot of room between
"9.0"--> could've done one more
"9.5"--> maaaaybe one more.
"10"--> could NOT have done one more rep no way

"10" is an exact finite thing if you think about it.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#25

Post by TimK » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:53 am

mbasic wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:50 am
Allentown wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:21 am That's it! I think that is a useful and valuable post.
there is one version of the RPE scale where 9.5 = you could've NOT done another rep, but you could have done a tiny bit more weight.
I like that for 9.5.

Especially at heavier weights (1@8, 1@9), there's a lot of room between
"9.0"--> could've done one more
"9.5"--> maaaaybe one more.
"10"--> could NOT have done one more rep no way

"10" is an exact finite thing if you think about it.
Wait what? @9 means one more, not two. must have been a typo, looks like you edited it

I like "9.75" for "could have done a little more weight, but not another rep.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#26

Post by mbasic » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:55 am

TimK wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:53 am
mbasic wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:50 am
Allentown wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:21 am That's it! I think that is a useful and valuable post.
there is one version of the RPE scale where 9.5 = you could've NOT done another rep, but you could have done a tiny bit more weight.
I like that for 9.5.

Especially at heavier weights (1@8, 1@9), there's a lot of room between
"9.0"--> could've done one more
"9.5"--> maaaaybe one more.
"10"--> could NOT have done one more rep no way

"10" is an exact finite thing if you think about it.
Wait what? @9 means one more, not two.

I like "9.75" for "could have done a little more weight, but not another rep.
I edited.
I was thinking like a heavy set. x1@9 type of thing.
1@9 = "I could have done two reps total"

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#27

Post by mbasic » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:58 am

If use use 9.75 . . .

9.75 !!!

Clear out to the hundredths place.
You know where will throw a conniption fit.

LOL

but i know what you mean, and I agree.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#28

Post by EricK » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:05 pm

Chebass88 wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am Maybe, just maybe - form creep is exacerbated with the emphasis to add weight to the bar EVERY session, at any cost. This eventually leads to grinding, which leads to less-than-ideal form. You could remedy this by hiring a coach for a couple hundred bucks per month, OR change the mentality from "I must increase the weight every session" to "I'm going to earn an increase". Earn an increase by performing all reps for a given set & rep scheme with solid execution, no grinding.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#29

Post by cgeorg » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:42 am

Was going through my old log in Egypt and I had this nugget saved. It provides some good perspective when you have too much going on and things feel like shit.
George Christiansen wrote: You can't really expect to regularly PR in more than one area of life at a time if you are over 30.

Anything that is novel or intense is going to interfere with everything else. That can be taking up a new sport, breaking in a new girlfriend, a bunch of stress and late hours at the job, ect. Once you get past the novel stage it may be that the intensity or even frequency of an activity can be too much.

Another factor is that things are generally easier when you get stronger.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#30

Post by anelson » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:37 am

cgeorg wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:42 am Was going through my old log in Egypt and I had this nugget saved. It provides some good perspective when you have too much going on and things feel like shit.
George Christiansen wrote: You can't really expect to regularly PR in more than one area of life at a time if you are over 30.

Anything that is novel or intense is going to interfere with everything else. That can be taking up a new sport, breaking in a new girlfriend, a bunch of stress and late hours at the job, ect. Once you get past the novel stage it may be that the intensity or even frequency of an activity can be too much.

Another factor is that things are generally easier when you get stronger.
Perfect, I'll just continue to PR my total sleep debt. I set a new PR pretty much every night, so I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#31

Post by mbasic » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:59 am

"this shit is working" - anonymous

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#32

Post by Shane » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:05 pm

BostonRugger wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:24 pm Squatting rules and my life is not as good without it.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#33

Post by stevan » Wed May 02, 2018 9:25 am

EricK wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 7:06 am Logic is really about consistency. They're definitely failing at that by saying one must learn how to evaluate an effort under load, and use it to adjust loading, but one should never try to evaluate effort under load to try and use it to adjust loading. But the real problem with "applying logic" to strength training is that the conclusions are only as good as the premisses and our understanding of neuromuscular function is not crisp enough to make logical extensions as solid as we'd like. It is feasible, if we could get the ground work solid enough to apply "pure logic" but our first principles have to be spot on. As it is, they're working with worse first principles than the rest of the training community and their recommendations suffer for it because they are trying to apply (sloppy) logic without understanding it's limitations.
Is this too long to be a quote?

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#34

Post by ithryn » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:56 pm

"As far as GPP stuff, yea I think I have leaned more towards LISS given that I've found many folks' base of conditioning just isn't there and HIIT can wreck them a bit more than I would expect. Additionally, I think that the benefits all the ex fizz dudes clamor about for HIIT may be magnified by the data done over short term studies without long term follow up. In short, we need some LISS to let the HIIT actually help optimally. Places for both."

- Feigenbaum

"Second, don't put yourself down ("... some miniscule weight ..."). Cut that out immediately - if you look hard enough, you will always find someone much stronger than you. You are strong already, and have a full-time job, family, wife, house, etc. Think positively about your lifting. Can it be improved? Absolutely. Is it "miniscule"? Nope. Is it better than it was last year / month / week? If yes, WINNING!"

- @Chebass88 said this to me and I saved it

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#35

Post by mgil » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:44 am

viewtopic.php?p=45987#p45987

Good thoughts on how to run 531 there.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#36

Post by Murelli » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:18 am

mgil wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:04 am
stevan wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:37 am Yes. Humans are complex, I just don't see how that affects our management except that you should expect different responses and that you should act accordingly. No one is able to optimize for all the indepent variables or have the "best" training method from the start.
So, yeah.

LP acts as a nice initial filter on an individual to determine response. So one of the things I've been rambling on about, but not formally, for over a year now is that you basically have a novice period and then post-novice. The novice LP filter creates the data upon which the principles of all post-novice programming should be formulated. In DSP-talk, the first order linear filter sets initial parameters for the subsequent "tuned" filters. Then post-novice gains further refine the tuning. Then other things happen, like injury, vacations, kids, whatever happen and further perturb things.

The crux of the argument that a lot of us are putting forth is that all of these studies are nice to try and control some conditions and make some inferences, but a lot is left to be known. Further, the results have to be extrapolated for whatever reason to a population that is not identical to the control. When it comes to SSOC, they look to apply some very basic thoughts to programming and customize very slowly. Also, they put a lot of the success of the programming output on the trainee and some weird virtue system as opposed to putting in some analysis to the lifter's results and framing the data properly to understand how the individual responds to training variables. This is mostly due to the fact that they follow SS principles where "DTP" trumps all and the selection of post-novice programming templates is a bit sparse and the initial application looks to be in accordance to the books. Maybe in some of their advanced trainees or certain coaches are looking at other templates to consider response of the individual, but those cases seem to be lacking. It has been stated, by the head of the organization, that their focus is on "novices" because that's the larger market share (non-barbell users) and that there isn't a lot of money to be made with more advanced trainees.

All of this training stuff can be hard and confusing. It takes time and thought on top of considering the goals of the client and their goals and obstacles. That's on top of trying to consider their personality and attitude towards training. Regardless, what the message is here is that it does take personal experience to understand all of this and take it into consideration when making in-depth opinions on training. For example, while RTS adheres to a fairly consistent training philosophy, there are many coaches onboard. There have been lifters who struggle with one coach and move to another and make gains, and yet there isn't a consistent pattern to who's bad. It comes to the coach-client relationship and the ability of the coach to understand that trainee's progress and use it properly. Again, experience is important.

So what your seeing is that experience matters, but yet we deride someone from claiming experience as a primary source of training knowledge. Well, that's because if you talk to a person like Mike T or Jordan, you'll see that there are likely categories of trainees, but even then the way to program them is not monolithic within the category. In the other case, you see a monolithic look at training, with a "YNDTP" response to non-responders. In other words, most coaches will use their experience to tell you that people can be unique cases where this one person derides the concept of uniqueness.

All of this to say that the words...
...I just don't see how that affects our management except that you should expect different responses...


...throw away this concept or at least marginalize it. I think that makes things seem a bit, well, crass.

Again, I understand that you are a young dude, dealing with a messy paradigm, and operating in a non-native language. I'm using this to temper all of my responses to you. I think that you are keenly interested in how all of this stuff works, and that is good. You're going to need more time of integration, as an individual trainee and coach, to understand how all these things work. Keep reading, keep analyzing, keep thinking, but at the same time keep training and keep applying the knowledge.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#37

Post by GeorgeC » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:29 pm

Allentown wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:49 amDo what I do- combine at least 3 of those, preferably ones with opposing objectives, using the structure of a 4th, wildly different, program. Then when that fails to produce results after 17 days, switch to a new program, vow to DTFP, but the moment someone posts a "Race To XXXX" challenge add in at least two days of training dedicated toward that challenge without reducing any of the work you vowed to do in TFP. Then get sick, injure yourself outside the gym, get embarrassed by the status of one of your lifts, and pick a new program. Change out most of the lifts in that new program, while also splitting 2 of the sessions into 4 and rolling bits of all the sessions into those 4 sessions. And also take up running.
This is like one of those fun house mirrors. It may not be exactly what any of us look like, but it ain't exactly somebody else either.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#38

Post by SpinyNorman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:49 am

Hanley wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:28 am Dude. Fatigue management over multiple sessions. To maximize "hard sets" over - say -a week, the rhythm of stress & fatigue has to be perfectly balanced. That is -- the quality of acute and longer term fatigue from sessions needs to be considered & organized.
I think this pretty much sums up why I couldn't program for myself worth a shit.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#39

Post by damufunman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:27 am

SpinyNorman wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:49 am
Hanley wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:28 am Dude. Fatigue management over multiple sessions. To maximize "hard sets" over - say -a week, the rhythm of stress & fatigue has to be perfectly balanced. That is -- the quality of acute and longer term fatigue from sessions needs to be considered & organized.
I think this pretty much sums up why I couldn't program for myself worth a shit.
Was this a DM? Can't find above quote to bug @Hanley about it.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#40

Post by SpinyNorman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:40 am

damufunman wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:27 am
SpinyNorman wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:49 am
Hanley wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:28 am Dude. Fatigue management over multiple sessions. To maximize "hard sets" over - say -a week, the rhythm of stress & fatigue has to be perfectly balanced. That is -- the quality of acute and longer term fatigue from sessions needs to be considered & organized.
I think this pretty much sums up why I couldn't program for myself worth a shit.
Was this a DM? Can't find above quote to bug @Hanley about it.
No, I made the mistake of wandering into the shitposting forum and read it in the Feigenbaum one Stevan started.

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