Cutting/Bulking for a Meet

[TimK]

Stats:

Age: 32
Height: 5'11"
BW: 238 (at maintenance for 3 weeks now, before that was a 27 week cut down from 277)
BF%: Around 20%? Navy method says 23.4% which seems a little high to me

I'm going to stay at maintenance for one more week, but then I'm debating what to do for the next 23 weeks. There is a USAPL meet on April 28th that I'm planning on entering (registration doesn't open until January). My weight class options are 231 or 265. I don't want to be at the bottom of the 265 class and if I tried to bulk up to that I'd just get fat since I'm not really "lean" yet anyway. So I'm thinking I'll try to cut down to about 220, which would take about 12 weeks at 1.5lbs/week. At that point I'll have 11 weeks to bulk before the meet. If I gain 1lb/week, that puts me right at 231.

On the other hand, there's the fact that with the holiday season coming up, it would be easier and more enjoyable to train with a surplus for the first 12 weeks (get up to say, 247) and then spend the last 11 weeks cutting down to 231. However, it seems like it would be better to be gaining weight/strength going into a meet than losing. Also, from what I've read it seems like even if I end up at the same BW in the end, my BF% would probably be lower if I get leaner first and then bulk vs trying to gain weight when I'm already kind of fat.

The third option would be to just diet down to 231 which would only take about 5 weeks, and then spend the next 18 weeks training at maintenance. Theoretically though, cutting and then bulking should result in a better body composition. More muscle = moar stronger, but if I lose strength on the cut and then waste time gaining it back it might not benefit my total.

I'm leaning toward option 1 but considering option 3 as well. Thoughts?

EDIT: I should have mentioned that while I want to do well at the meet, I also have a goal of getting leaner. I would like to get down to 12-15% and stay there long term. So eventually I'd like to be around 215ish. I'm just trying to figure out how to best fit preparing for this meet into the context of that long term goal, not trying to drop down a weight class because I think I'll have a shot at winning or anything like that.

[chromoly]

Señor Mustache, this is your first USAPL meet right? And your second meet, ever (first being the Fall Classic?) If you're going to lose weight I think options 1 or 3 both make sense. I always recommend the general advice below for first time competitors.

Chromoly's Advice for first time competitors (having been affiliated with UCLA PL team for some time, we get some every year): I usually recommend just training as hard as you can, and weigh in at whatever weight you weigh in as. Unless you are going to smash some state records or something at your first meet, just train hard and have fun! Learn the rules, learn how you perform on meet day, and think about cutting weight for the next week.

[TimK]

Señor Mustache, this is your first USAPL meet right? And your second meet, ever (first being the Fall Classic?) If you're going to lose weight I think options 1 or 3 both make sense. I always recommend the general advice below for first time competitors.

Chromoly's Advice for first time competitors (having been affiliated with UCLA PL team for some time, we get some every year): I usually recommend just training as hard as you can, and weigh in at whatever weight you weigh in as. Unless you are going to smash some state records or something at your first meet, just train hard and have fun! Learn the rules, learn how you perform on meet day, and think about cutting weight for the next week.

Yup, second meet, first actual powerlifting meet.

I should have mentioned (and I'll add this to the original post) that while I want to do well at the meet, I also have a goal of getting leaner. I would like to get down to 12-15% and stay there long term. So eventually I'd like to be around 215ish. I'm just trying to figure out how to best fit preparing for this meet into the context of that long term goal, not trying to drop down a weight class because I think I'll have a shot at winning or anything like that.

[BenM]

I’m in a similar spot for a (virtual... not a real meet, but I’m treating it as such) in January.

I went with option 1, for what it’s worth - just finishing up cutting to a weight that gives me some headroom to then train at a very slight surplus all the way to the meet.

Training at maintenance is fine too, but obviously gains won’t come as fast and you will be constantly walking that tightrope of weight.

For me it was a simple decision but then I only had to lose a few kgs and don’t have as long to go.

[TimK]

After typing that out and thinking about it a bit more, I guess my actual LONG term goal (like 3+ years) would be to fill out the 231 weight class while being pretty lean, like 12%. There's no way that's going to happen for this meet, and even if I cut down and get up to 231 with a good muscle/fat gain ratio, I'm still not going to break any records or be as lean as I want. So maybe doing any "bulking" at this point doesn't make much sense. Maybe I should just diet down to 220 and then spend 11 weeks geting as strong as I can while maintaining that weight. Do the meet (without having to fuck around with water cuts or any of that) and then afterward continue dieting down afterward, maybe get all the way down to 205 before starting the long, slow process of adding muscle mass. Bulk and cut until I'm a lean 231.

Then see if I can break some state records in the masters division since that's where I'll probably be by that time, lol.

[tdood]

Fwiw I like eating UP to the meet. Being overweight worrying about making weight sucks. Once your taper begins don't gain or lose at all.. just have the same body you've been hitting the heavy lifts with. Also, once the volume is lowered, if you lose weight it's more likely to be LBM, if you gain its fat. You can always lose a few lbs manipulating gut content.

[d0uevenlift]

You can train and get stronger at maintenance and water cut into the 105/231 class.

If you have a shot at getting onto the podium in April, and that's what you really want to do, that's what I'd do if I were you. I'd hover around 236-238 which is roughly where you are now, then just water cut 6-7lbs. But if you're thinking you might not get a medal in the 105 open class at your meet, I'd just compete at whatever weight you're at now and then start that cut/recomp cycle later.

[LexAnderson]

You can train and get stronger at maintenance and water cut into the 105/231 class.

If you have a shot at getting onto the podium in April, and that's what you really want to do, that's what I'd do if I were you. I'd hover around 236-238 which is roughly where you are now, then just water cut 6-7lbs. But if you're thinking you might not get a medal in the 105 open class at your meet, I'd just compete at whatever weight you're at now and then start that cut/recomp cycle later.

Best advice right hurr.

[TimK]

You can train and get stronger at maintenance and water cut into the 105/231 class.

If you have a shot at getting onto the podium in April, and that's what you really want to do, that's what I'd do if I were you. I'd hover around 236-238 which is roughly where you are now, then just water cut 6-7lbs. But if you're thinking you might not get a medal in the 105 open class at your meet, I'd just compete at whatever weight you're at now and then start that cut/recomp cycle later.

Well like I said, my overall goal and priority right now is to get lean, and then add muscle and worry about being "competitive". I'm not going to completely put off the cutting for another six months just so I can do better at the meet and have made zero progress on my larger goal.

I'm going cut for 12 weeks down to 220 and then train at maintenance for the next 11 weeks up to the meet, then cut for another 12 weeks after the meet. Hopefully get to 205 and actually feel comfortable taking my shirt off at the beach for the first time in my life. Then maintain that for a month or two and next fall I can start gaining weight again, and possibly find another meet to compete in around December after training in a surplus for a few months.

[LexAnderson]

You can train and get stronger at maintenance and water cut into the 105/231 class.

If you have a shot at getting onto the podium in April, and that's what you really want to do, that's what I'd do if I were you. I'd hover around 236-238 which is roughly where you are now, then just water cut 6-7lbs. But if you're thinking you might not get a medal in the 105 open class at your meet, I'd just compete at whatever weight you're at now and then start that cut/recomp cycle later.

Well like I said, my overall goal and priority right now is to get lean, and then add muscle and worry about being "competitive". I'm not going to completely put off the cutting for another six months just so I can do better at the meet and have made zero progress on my larger goal.

I'm going cut for 12 weeks down to 220 and then train at maintenance for the next 11 weeks up to the meet, then cut for another 12 weeks after the meet. Hopefully get to 205 and actually feel comfortable taking my shirt off at the beach for the first time in my life. Then maintain that for a month or two and next fall I can start gaining weight again, and possibly find another meet to compete in around December after training in a surplus for a few months.

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight if you just want to feel comfortable taking your shirt off at the beach you know? That's the funny thing about the body, you think you'll look a certain way and a certain weight and when you get there you don't look anything like you thought you would. Anything you do after the meet, I would just go by sight and feel. If you like the way you look and you feel strong then that's were you stay at. That weight could be 205 or 210.

[TimK]

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight if you just want to feel comfortable taking your shirt off at the beach you know? That's the funny thing about the body, you think you'll look a certain way and a certain weight and when you get there you don't look anything like you thought you would. Anything you do after the meet, I would just go by sight and feel. If you like the way you look and you feel strong then that's were you stay at. That weight could be 205 or 210.

Yeah 205 is just an estimation/15 lbs less than 220 (and thus close to the most I would want to lose in 12 weeks). I'm kind of following Israetel's philosophy of not cutting for more than 12 weeks at a time and interspersing maintenance phases between bouts of cutting and bulking.

The decision of whether to cut even lower than that will definitely be made by how I look and feel, although I doubt that I will want to do that. I'm not obsessed with getting shredded or anything like that, but I think it would be cool to get lean enough to see my abs at least once in my life and I know that being pretty lean sets you up better for a mass gaining phase that doesn't just result in getting fat.

[AaronM]

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight if you just want to feel comfortable taking your shirt off at the beach you know? That's the funny thing about the body, you think you'll look a certain way and a certain weight and when you get there you don't look anything like you thought you would. Anything you do after the meet, I would just go by sight and feel. If you like the way you look and you feel strong then that's were you stay at. That weight could be 205 or 210.

Yeah 205 is just an estimation/15 lbs less than 220 (and thus close to the most I would want to lose in 12 weeks). I'm kind of following Israetel's philosophy of not cutting for more than 12 weeks at a time and interspersing maintenance phases between bouts of cutting and bulking.

The decision of whether to cut even lower than that will definitely be made by how I look and feel, although I doubt that I will want to do that. I'm not obsessed with getting shredded or anything like that, but I think it would be cool to get lean enough to see my abs at least once in my life and I know that being pretty lean sets you up better for a mass gaining phase that doesn't just result in getting fat.

FWIW, I think genetics play a big role in whether you have visible abs or not. For example, Alan Thrall has/had visible abs at over 20% bodyfat, but his legs were sausages. I'm the opposite, as my body likes to put every ounce of fat on my gut, while my quads are still visible above 20% bodyfat.

Though, if you can get lean without life sucking because of your dietary restrictions, I'd say go for it. All things being equal, being less fat seems like a good thing (assuming you aren't chasing a single digit bf%).

[LexAnderson]

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight if you just want to feel comfortable taking your shirt off at the beach you know? That's the funny thing about the body, you think you'll look a certain way and a certain weight and when you get there you don't look anything like you thought you would. Anything you do after the meet, I would just go by sight and feel. If you like the way you look and you feel strong then that's were you stay at. That weight could be 205 or 210.

Yeah 205 is just an estimation/15 lbs less than 220 (and thus close to the most I would want to lose in 12 weeks). I'm kind of following Israetel's philosophy of not cutting for more than 12 weeks at a time and interspersing maintenance phases between bouts of cutting and bulking.

The decision of whether to cut even lower than that will definitely be made by how I look and feel, although I doubt that I will want to do that. I'm not obsessed with getting shredded or anything like that, but I think it would be cool to get lean enough to see my abs at least once in my life and I know that being pretty lean sets you up better for a mass gaining phase that doesn't just result in getting fat.

FWIW, I think genetics play a big role in whether you have visible abs or not. For example, Alan Thrall has/had visible abs at over 20% bodyfat, but his legs were sausages. I'm the opposite, as my body likes to put every ounce of fat on my gut, while my quads are still visible above 20% bodyfat.

Though, if you can get lean without life sucking because of your dietary restrictions, I'd say go for it. All things being equal, being less fat seems like a good thing (assuming you aren't chasing a single digit bf%).

Genetics to a certain extent, I mean if you get lean enough and train them then you will see your abs. But also with Thrall it's interesting to see his abs at that %, but it has also competed in strongman for some time, the bracing in strongman is ridiculous and that has probably helped him develop his abs further than more regular lifters.

[AaronM]

Genetics to a certain extent, I mean if you get lean enough and train them then you will see your abs. But also with Thrall it's interesting to see his abs at that %, but it has also competed in strongman for some time, the bracing in strongman is ridiculous and that has probably helped him develop his abs further than more regular lifters.

True, I had visible abs when I weighed 130-150lb, but I was skinny as death. I just think it's interesting that someone could carry so much fat on their thighs (or elsewhere), and still have lean abs.

[LexAnderson]

True, I had visible abs when I weighed 130-150lb, but I was skinny as death. I just think it's interesting that someone could carry so much fat on their thighs (or elsewhere), and still have lean abs.

I totally agree with you, its crazy how one body responds a certain way and the guy next to you going through the same thing has his body respond differently.

[TimK]

FWIW, I think genetics play a big role in whether you have visible abs or not. For example, Alan Thrall has/had visible abs at over 20% bodyfat, but his legs were sausages. I'm the opposite, as my body likes to put every ounce of fat on my gut, while my quads are still visible above 20% bodyfat.

Though, if you can get lean without life sucking because of your dietary restrictions, I'd say go for it. All things being equal, being less fat seems like a good thing (assuming you aren't chasing a single digit bf%).

Ha, I just watched that Alan Thrall video last night, the one where he gets hydrostatically tested at 22%. For me personally I seem to have a fairly even distribution but a bit more in my lovehandles/lower back than my actual ab region. Regardless, I'm using "visible abs" more as a proxy for getting lean enough to see some decent overall muscle definition. I don't really plan to get lower than 10% (based on the super-accurate images of what "10%" looks like that I've seen floating around the internet). Even then, I'd be happy walking around at like 15% but I think it will be cool to get down to 10% at least once and then if I bulk up from there I'm not going all the way back up to 20%.

If I get to a point where I'm starting to see severe performance drops then I'm not going to keep pushing it.