The Uneasy Truth About Traveling While Fat

[mikeylikey]

"people who live in large bodies"
"People of size"
"Size inclusive"


Are we really doing this?

...what's the quote about control the language and you control how people think...

And V is far from alone. Universal Studios Hollywood recently faced criticism when visitors deemed the Super Nintendo World’s Mario Kart ride fatphobic due to its 40-inch waist limit.

Wait, navel tape, or jeans size?

[hector]

Are we really doing this?

Yes. Yes we are.
Buckle up.

[mikeylikey]

Are we really doing this?

Yes. Yes we are.
Buckle up.

Can I have a seat belt extender?

[aurelius]

Recently on a flight where a woman clearly could not fit in her seat. The couple consisted of a petite woman and normal sized man. They just sucked it up and were kind about it. But it was a 2 hour flight. I don't know what I would do if I had an 8 hour flight sandwiched inbetween two people. I simply don't understand people's entitlement to expect the world to 100% cater to them. If you take up 2 seats you need to buy 2 seats. Not hard.

I blame the airlines. The airlines are putting profit and convenience for them onto the passengers. It is up to the passengers presented with this situation to work it out. Airlines should have a hard and fast rule if you cannot fit within a standard seat you must purchase 2 seats. Then enforce it. I would 100% fly on that airline exclusively.

[dw]

Tbh... expecting people to voluntarily pay for an extra ticket is a big ask in the land of freedom.

The airline requiring it OTOH is fine by me.

[mouse]

Living in a world fueled by fatphobia creates unnecessary barriers, from limited clothing options to discrimination in medical care, employment, and relationships.

If you're not attracted to fat women, you're discriminating against them. Very wrongthinky of you.

Missed that when I scanned it... the same weird argument is being made by some trans people (and I guess what could be called 'enthusiasts'?).

If you don't want to actively bang a chick with the bait and tackle you're a racist or something...

[mikeylikey]

Recently on a flight where a woman clearly could not fit in her seat. The couple consisted of a petite woman and normal sized man. They just sucked it up and were kind about it. But it was a 2 hour flight. I don't know what I would do if I had an 8 hour flight sandwiched inbetween two people. I simply don't understand people's entitlement to expect the world to 100% cater to them. If you take up 2 seats you need to buy 2 seats. Not hard.

I blame the airlines. The airlines are putting profit and convenience for them onto the passengers. It is up to the passengers presented with this situation to work it out. Airlines should have a hard and fast rule if you cannot fit within a standard seat you must purchase 2 seats. Then enforce it. I would 100% fly on that airline exclusively.

We all know how small the seats are, and we buy the tickets anyway. The airlines know that as much as we bitch about the small seats, there is no money to be made running an airline that charges 10% more for a 10% bigger seat. This is a Nash equilibrium. Classically, the type of scenario where conventional wisdom says you need a regulation. I'm not sure you do.

I purchase one seat, I should get to occupy 1.0 (one) seats. Not .9 of a seat or .75 of a seat. The ticket entitles me to occupy that much of the plane. It's a simple issue of contract. Like most problems this doesn't even need elaborate regulations, the government needs simply to enforce the fucking contract. I paid for one seat, and I can fit in that seat. If the person next to me can't fit in their seat and is using some of mine, it should be my prerogative and legal right to demand that the airline honor the contract and provide my full 1.0 of a seat by moving the fat person to another seat/flight. It is the airline's responsibility to ensure they can provide each passenger with the seat they paid for. I really don't care the means they use to effect that.

Simply enforce the 1 seat per passenger contract, and let the airlines figure out what sort of due diligence is the most efficient way to ensure people get the seat they paid for. Maybe weighing and measuring people is the most cost effective, or maybe it's more efficient to just have 2 or 3 empty seats on each flight on account of the fact that MOST people are not going to complain if a moderately fat person is only slightly encroaching on their space. Who knows.

Not only that, but if I paid for my one-point-zero of a seat, and the person next to me is so fat that their arm flab is spilling literally 6 inches past the armrest and pinning my left arm down for three fucking hours, well my friend this is simple battery in every state in the US seeing as I am in a place I have the legal right to be and am being physically touched against my will. But good luck getting that enforced.

[hector]

We all know how small the seats are, and we buy the tickets anyway. The airlines know that as much as we bitch about the small seats, there is no money to be made running an airline that charges 10% more for a 10% bigger seat. This is a Nash equilibrium. Classically, the type of scenario where conventional wisdom says you need a regulation. I'm not sure you do.

I purchase one seat, I should get to occupy 1.0 (one) seats. Not .9 of a seat or .75 of a seat. The ticket entitles me to occupy that much of the plane. It's a simple issue of contract. Like most problems this doesn't even need elaborate regulations, the government needs simply to enforce the fucking contract. I paid for one seat, and I can fit in that seat. If the person next to me can't fit in their seat and is using some of mine, it should be my prerogative and legal right to demand that the airline honor the contract and provide my full 1.0 of a seat by moving the fat person to another seat/flight. It is the airline's responsibility to ensure they can provide each passenger with the seat they paid for. I really don't care the means they use to effect that.

Simply enforce the 1 seat per passenger contract, and let the airlines figure out what sort of due diligence is the most efficient way to ensure people get the seat they paid for. Maybe weighing and measuring people is the most cost effective, or maybe it's more efficient to just have 2 or 3 empty seats on each flight on account of the fact that MOST people are not going to complain if a moderately fat person is only slightly encroaching on their space. Who knows.

Not only that, but if I paid for my one-point-zero of a seat, and the person next to me is so fat that their arm flab is spilling literally 6 inches past the armrest and pinning my left arm down for three fucking hours, well my friend this is simple battery in every state in the US seeing as I am in a place I have the legal right to be and am being physically touched against my will. But good luck getting that enforced.

We buy tickets from airlines that won’t abide by this rule.
We vote for politicians, and pay taxes to police, who won’t enforce this law in this context.
As a nation we’re getting fatter.
And, under modern rules, your position might even marginalize you as “far right.” Since you are “fat phobic.”

I’m not any more optimistic than you of change.

[KyleSchuant]

Fuck flying anyway. Like, a Melbourne to Adelaide flight is supposed to be 1 hour, vs 10 hours of driving or taking the train. But throw in driving to and from each of the airports, early checkin, baggage, security and general airline fuckery, and now it's 4 hours instead. Then you have fat bastards and squawking kids (I have squawking kids at home, I don't need more when I travel) and stinky cramped toilets and bad food and noisy engines and dry air on top of it all.

Drive and take the route you want for a more scenic view, break up the trip whenever you want. Or take the train and get up and wander around whenever you like.

Doesn't work for cross-oceanic trips, of course, but fuck foreign countries, too.

[aurelius]

Agreed.

And the US is an advocacy system. Meaning it is put upon the transgressed individual to file a civil claim to enforce their rights. This only resolves the issue months (if not longer) after the fact and, from your narrative, would hold the offending person accountable. This is a very high bar for the average individual to undertake. Would the damages even cover the court costs?

I really don't see any need for government involvement. Flying is not a right. Overweight people are not a protected class (therefore can be discriminated against). I don't even believe this is discrimination. Somehow amusement parks with teenagers operating rides enforce size restrictions. The airlines themselves are more than capable of enforcing this.

Same issue but less thought of: carryon bags. Fuckers all the time bring giant carry ones that in no way meet the size restrictions. This creates the overhead bin space shortage. Airlines do nothing to enforce their own size restriction rules. And simply put it on passengers to figure it out. On the same flight I saw someone put a guitar in an overhead bin (taking up the entire bin) while another passenger bought a seat for their guitar.

Airlines won't change until it hurts their bottom line. I would love to see a market solution. An airline needs to have the courage to enforce these rules and market themselves as the better flying experience. I'd pay more to know that I was guaranteed a full seat and overhead bin storage.

[aurelius]

Fuck flying anyway. Like, a Melbourne to Adelaide flight is supposed to be 1 hour, vs 10 hours of driving or taking the train. But throw in driving to and from each of the airports, early checkin, baggage, security and general airline fuckery, and now it's 4 hours instead. Then you have fat bastards and squawking kids (I have squawking kids at home, I don't need more when I travel) and stinky cramped toilets and bad food and noisy engines and dry air on top of it all.

Yes. DIA in Denver is a nightmare of an airport where it takes 2+ hours to get through security on any holiday. My hometown in Texas is a 10 hour drive. It takes an hour to get to the airport (it is in BFE) and 2 hours to get through stressful/dehumanizing security. Add in a flight time of 2 hours and another hour of waiting around bullshit and flying saves me 4 hours. I just drive it now.

[DanCR]

Overweight people are not a protected class

Come late November, they will be in NYC. It’s insanity.

[conssam]

I have seen articles like this. Sometimes people aren't fat, they are just sick, and it's extremely rude to do that. On top of that, everyone is screaming about accepting and loving yourself, but where does all of this suddenly disappear in moments like this?

[mgil]

I have seen articles like this. Sometimes people aren't fat, they are just sick, and it's extremely rude to do that. On top of that, everyone is screaming about accepting and loving yourself, but where does all of this suddenly disappear in moments like this?

It’s hard to deal with people that are self-inflicted victims.

Agreed there are people with legitimate issues. But that’s not the problem here.

[Hardartery]

Same issue but less thought of: carryon bags. Fuckers all the time bring giant carry ones that in no way meet the size restrictions. This creates the overhead bin space shortage. Airlines do nothing to enforce their own size restriction rules. And simply put it on passengers to figure it out. On the same flight I saw someone put a guitar in an overhead bin (taking up the entire bin) while another passenger bought a seat for their guitar.

Airlines won't change until it hurts their bottom line. I would love to see a market solution. An airline needs to have the courage to enforce these rules and market themselves as the better flying experience. I'd pay more to know that I was guaranteed a full seat and overhead bin storage.

The bigger problem is the people putting the personal item (Usually a backpack) in the overhead as well as the carry on. That goes under the seat in front of you asshole, not in the carry on space that I paid for. And put your carry on in the bin above your seat, not somewhere near the front over my seat and then walk your retarded self to the back of the plane where you're living. There is plenty of overhead room if people follow instructions. Like up on edge in the newer 737's not flat, and not sideways taking up the space of 2 or 3 bags like a half-wit.

[Hardartery]

I have seen articles like this. Sometimes people aren't fat, they are just sick, and it's extremely rude to do that. On top of that, everyone is screaming about accepting and loving yourself, but where does all of this suddenly disappear in moments like this?

What are you talking about?

[aurelius]

I have seen articles like this. Sometimes people aren't fat, they are just sick, and it's extremely rude to do that. On top of that, everyone is screaming about accepting and loving yourself, but where does all of this suddenly disappear in moments like this?

??? We are discussing very large individuals. Remove obesity from the equation. Andre the Giant's size is directly due to a medical condition he has no ability to change/control. He needs 2 (maybe 3) economy seats on a modern commercial airline. Should he only pay for one seat and the other 2 passengers that show up are just shit out of luck? Catch the next flight (which is also full) normies! What is Andre's responsibility to other passengers? What is the airline's responsibility to Andre? What is the airline's responsibility to impacted passengers?

Narrowly focusing on the economic convenience (as a right ) for Andre is myopic and silly. And that is what we are discussing. The economic convenience for very large people versus the very real physical discomfort or worse (like someone missing a flight). We are not discussing banning very large people from flying. Simply stating very large people should pay for the space they occupy. Very large people cannot fit behind the steering wheels of economy cars. Should we lower the costs of SUV's to that of economy cars for very large people? Where does this end?

Very few obese people have a medical condition that causes the obesity that cannot be addressed through proper exercise and diet. If you hear hoof beats, think horses not zebras.

[mikeylikey]

Agreed.

And the US is an advocacy system. Meaning it is put upon the transgressed individual to file a civil claim to enforce their rights. This only resolves the issue months (if not longer) after the fact and, from your narrative, would hold the offending person accountable. This is a very high bar for the average individual to undertake. Would the damages even cover the court costs?

Not to equate the two things but you could make the above point about civil rights in terms of how we actually functionally got them. A lot of privileges we take for granted are because somebody somewhere was willing to go through the process you describe, at considerable personal cost, because they were pissed off enough on principle. And at least with civil rights, history shows that relatively few legal victories are enough to change the behavior of entire industries.

Airlines won't change until it hurts their bottom line. I would love to see a market solution. An airline needs to have the courage to enforce these rules and market themselves as the better flying experience. I'd pay more to know that I was guaranteed a full seat and overhead bin storage.

Well I believe what I proposed IS a market solution. The current paradigm is supported by selective contract enforcement by The State, virtually always to the benefit of the airlines. The current paradigm is the state intervention. Remove that and let the market work.

[mikeylikey]

Same issue but less thought of: carryon bags. Fuckers all the time bring giant carry ones that in no way meet the size restrictions. This creates the overhead bin space shortage. Airlines do nothing to enforce their own size restriction rules. And simply put it on passengers to figure it out. On the same flight I saw someone put a guitar in an overhead bin (taking up the entire bin) while another passenger bought a seat for their guitar.

Airlines won't change until it hurts their bottom line. I would love to see a market solution. An airline needs to have the courage to enforce these rules and market themselves as the better flying experience. I'd pay more to know that I was guaranteed a full seat and overhead bin storage.

The bigger problem is the people putting the personal item (Usually a backpack) in the overhead as well as the carry on. That goes under the seat in front of you asshole, not in the carry on space that I paid for. And put your carry on in the bin above your seat, not somewhere near the front over my seat and then walk your retarded self to the back of the plane where you're living. There is plenty of overhead room if people follow instructions. Like up on edge in the newer 737's not flat, and not sideways taking up the space of 2 or 3 bags like a half-wit.

Okay but devil's advocate: you had the opportunity to purchase a more expensive ticket with priority boarding if it was important to you to put your shit up there. I mean it says right on your ticket that you are not entitled to a pro-rata amount of overhead space. I'm not sure this is the same thing at all. Though I agree 100% that people are douches in this regard.

[aurelius]

And at least with civil rights, history shows that relatively few legal victories are enough to change the behavior of entire industries.

This is off topic but I 100% disagree. Civil disobedience, people willing to withstand State brutality, and/or willing to commit violence is why we have Civil Rights. It took a revolution to enact the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Women's suffrage was marked by a decades of civil disobedience (protests and the lady folk speaking in public). They were not always treated well... Workers' rights and basic protections came after decades of brutal violence from Capitalists and the State against striking workers. Civil Rights from the 1960's was a decade of civil disobedience, riots, State brutality, assassinations, and so forth. We have rights because a few were willing to pay the ultimate price.

Maybe we are just defining Rights differently.