2023 Goals. Progress?

[James]

Gave up on the front squats. My good ankle went all wonky for like three months and I couldn't front squat.

Not dieing is still explicitly a goal for 2023 however.

[Hardartery]

Maybe try a cycle of Tren, those "teenagers" probably are. And no, no one with "average "genetics is hitting 180kg paused bench, at least without pharmaceutical assistance. That's pretty elite.

Yea these 5 and 6 plates for squat and deadlift are definitely more common.
About 4 plate bench... this guy hit 186 kg in full competition with like 5 years training. His programming is Calgary at best. He's the guy that deadlifted 600 lbs with Jason Blaha program LOL. He was a scrawny teenager when he started, far away from some NFL prodigy. Obviously responded well to training.

I know few more young guys who bench in mid to high 300s with basic programming and <5 years training history.

Listen man, you are an inspiration and I hope I will lift weights when your age... maybe I'll have decent numbers, maybe not.
Last 2 years I'm hitting a heavy bench single around 300 lbs at 225-230 lbs BW and I'm thinking "WEAK. You benched 2 plates long time ago and still can't hit 350??"
Maybe if I did 531 or Calgary like these strong kids I'll get stronger too LOL.
I just think it's mostly genetics and then I'm happy that I'm alive and have a privilege to lift as a hobby, and laugh at me trying to hit some random numbers.

Everyone is different, and the gains level off. Compare where you started to where you are. I just hit a 525 squat this week. I hit 305 1 RM the first time that I squatted, and my peak number was 650 (Comparing all RAW numbers). I started with a high number, which makes my other numbers less impressive, and I can tell you that it slows WAY down after 500 lbs for me in the gains department. You just look for the weakness and program accessories to suit and don't be in a rush.

[TheDuke]

Everyone is different, and the gains level off. Compare where you started to where you are. I just hit a 525 squat this week. I hit 305 1 RM the first time that I squatted, and my peak number was 650 (Comparing all RAW numbers). I started with a high number, which makes my other numbers less impressive, and I can tell you that it slows WAY down after 500 lbs for me in the gains department. You just look for the weakness and program accessories to suit and don't be in a rush.

This is a great advice and I'm trying exactly that.
But you know how it is with lifters, they hit a PR and already they thinking "It would be great if I hit ___ lbs in ___ months!"

[janoycresva]

How about your log? Your programming seems way better than most of the guys I see in the gym, and yet they are stronger than you, or me.

I've literally seen teenagers in the gym doing some basic bro splits, and then transition to some basic strength program and get pretty strong. Like this guy got a 600 lbs deadlift on Jason Blaha program after fucking around with some bro splits before LOL.
Or they do some basic okayish strength program over and over like 531 or Calgary and get to 4/5/6 plates and they're like "try this bro, I got so much stronger using THIS program" LOL yea whatever. And these young boys aren't even THAT genetically gifted. Above average, but far away from freaks.
What you say??

The longer I do this, the more I agree with this take.

Sure, one program may result in slightly better results than another (and you could consider a program that results in 5lbs on your bench in 3 months to be infinitely more effective than a program that results in no gains, I suppose), but there is nothing out there that will bring your progression in line with someone who is more genetically gifted than you are. There is very little you can do outside of getting the basics rights and following a fairly logical program and trying hard, everything else is down to your genetic draw and unfortunately I think that accounts for most of the difference in outcome between dedicated lifters. Ed Coan doing 1 set a week on each exercise and eating exclusively pop tarts would still be way stronger than anyone here.

I personally know a guy that started with a 1rm squat of 275, then proceeded to randomly max out twice a week and got to 405x1 like that in a few weeks, and then proceeded to squat 600 (at ~200lbs) a little over a year into training. He also benched 385, and deadlifted 600 sumo despite not training the deadlift at all because he didn't enjoy it (just pure squat carryover). Then he took 6 months completely off, came back, blew past all his old PRs and was nationally ranked in his weightclass for a bit. That was a fucking eye opening experience for me, it made me realize how absolutely and totally delusional I was about the role that genetics play in strength and their importance relative to other factors.

I have yet to see anyone that hit a real true plateau at a certain weight (not some easy babby's first stall shit like adding more volume or eating more) and then go on to get to the next plate increment above that - like, if you have to fucking grind and get your programming and diet perfect and live like an iron monk to bench 315, you are very likely never going to bench 405 without pharmaceutical help.

Also, sometimes it's incredible how miniscule the difference in strength is between focusing all your efforts on S/B/D and just training more generally. I just spent about 3 months not even touching a barbell for anything but RDLs, decided to test my squat and bench 10RM on a whim, and they're literally like 20 and 10lbs respectively off lifetime bests when I was 20lbs heavier and focusing on only S/B/D (obviously my 1RMs have probably suffered more than my 10RM, but still - I'm like a peaking cycle away from chipping a PR on any of these lifts if I fatfucked myself a little and avoided getting hurt). So, what the fuck was even the point of all that specialized programming?

[DCR]

Also, sometimes it's incredible how miniscule the difference in strength is between focusing all your efforts on S/B/D and just training more generally. I just spent about 3 months not even touching a barbell for anything but RDLs, decided to test my squat and bench 10RM on a whim, and they're literally like 20 and 10lbs respectively off lifetime bests when I was 20lbs heavier and focusing on only S/B/D (obviously my 1RMs have probably suffered more than my 10RM, but still - I'm like a peaking cycle away from chipping a PR on any of these lifts if I fatfucked myself a little and avoided getting hurt). So, what the fuck was even the point of all that specialized programming?

In the past few months, I’ve queried a few dudes in the (commercial) gym where I lift the majority of the time as to how they got their impressive bench numbers. (Not talking an elite four plates, but three plates and a bit over for some comfortable reps, which I think is about the ceiling for a natty brah with not shit genes.) Not one of them responded with “x program.” Every response involved doing something else to boost the movement, especially DB benching. (You’d think that would have resulted in me doing more of them then, but I’m a slow learner in the gym.) I’m not saying that any of these bros necessarily were right regarding the driver(s) of their success. Who knows what variables were at play? Point remains, though, that even if they were wrong about what got them where they were, it wasn’t programming, because none of them were running one. (I’m using “programming” here to mean some written method found online. Certainly all of them had some plan going into the gym, even if just some movements and rep ranges in mind and proceeding based on auto regulation.)

[TheDuke]

The longer I do this, the more I agree with this take.

Sure, one program may result in slightly better results than another (and you could consider a program that results in 5lbs on your bench in 3 months to be infinitely more effective than a program that results in no gains, I suppose), but there is nothing out there that will bring your progression in line with someone who is more genetically gifted than you are. There is very little you can do outside of getting the basics rights and following a fairly logical program and trying hard, everything else is down to your genetic draw and unfortunately I think that accounts for most of the difference in outcome between dedicated lifters. Ed Coan doing 1 set a week on each exercise and eating exclusively pop tarts would still be way stronger than anyone here.

I personally know a guy that started with a 1rm squat of 275, then proceeded to randomly max out twice a week and got to 405x1 like that in a few weeks, and then proceeded to squat 600 (at ~200lbs) a little over a year into training. He also benched 385, and deadlifted 600 sumo despite not training the deadlift at all because he didn't enjoy it (just pure squat carryover). Then he took 6 months completely off, came back, blew past all his old PRs and was nationally ranked in his weightclass for a bit. That was a fucking eye opening experience for me, it made me realize how absolutely and totally delusional I was about the role that genetics play in strength and their importance relative to other factors.

I have yet to see anyone that hit a real true plateau at a certain weight (not some easy babby's first stall shit like adding more volume or eating more) and then go on to get to the next plate increment above that - like, if you have to fucking grind and get your programming and diet perfect and live like an iron monk to bench 315, you are very likely never going to bench 405 without pharmaceutical help.

Also, sometimes it's incredible how miniscule the difference in strength is between focusing all your efforts on S/B/D and just training more generally. I just spent about 3 months not even touching a barbell for anything but RDLs, decided to test my squat and bench 10RM on a whim, and they're literally like 20 and 10lbs respectively off lifetime bests when I was 20lbs heavier and focusing on only S/B/D (obviously my 1RMs have probably suffered more than my 10RM, but still - I'm like a peaking cycle away from chipping a PR on any of these lifts if I fatfucked myself a little and avoided getting hurt). So, what the fuck was even the point of all that specialized programming?

Yeeeaaaa buddy. Great post so I had to quote you.

[TheDuke]

In the past few months, I’ve queried a few dudes in the (commercial) gym where I lift the majority of the time as to how they got their impressive bench numbers. (Not talking an elite four plates, but three plates and a bit over for some comfortable reps, which I think is about the ceiling for a natty brah with not shit genes.) Not one of them responded with “x program.” Every response involved doing something else to boost the movement, especially DB benching. (You’d think that would have resulted in me doing more of them then, but I’m a slow learner in the gym.) I’m not saying that any of these bros necessarily were right regarding the driver(s) of their success. Who knows what variables were at play? Point remains, though, that even if they were wrong about what got them where they were, it wasn’t programming, because none of them were running one. (I’m using “programming” here to mean some written method found online. Certainly all of them had some plan going into the gym, even if just some movements and rep ranges in mind and proceeding based on auto regulation.)

Yea it's that simple. Eating, sleeping, and mostly genetics will take care of the rest.

[hector]

How about your log? Your programming seems way better than most of the guys I see in the gym, and yet they are stronger than you, or me.

I've literally seen teenagers in the gym doing some basic bro splits, and then transition to some basic strength program and get pretty strong. Like this guy got a 600 lbs deadlift on Jason Blaha program after fucking around with some bro splits before LOL.
Or they do some basic okayish strength program over and over like 531 or Calgary and get to 4/5/6 plates and they're like "try this bro, I got so much stronger using THIS program" LOL yea whatever. And these young boys aren't even THAT genetically gifted. Above average, but far away from freaks.
What you say??

The longer I do this, the more I agree with this take.

Sure, one program may result in slightly better results than another (and you could consider a program that results in 5lbs on your bench in 3 months to be infinitely more effective than a program that results in no gains, I suppose), but there is nothing out there that will bring your progression in line with someone who is more genetically gifted than you are. There is very little you can do outside of getting the basics rights and following a fairly logical program and trying hard, everything else is down to your genetic draw and unfortunately I think that accounts for most of the difference in outcome between dedicated lifters. Ed Coan doing 1 set a week on each exercise and eating exclusively pop tarts would still be way stronger than anyone here.

I personally know a guy that started with a 1rm squat of 275, then proceeded to randomly max out twice a week and got to 405x1 like that in a few weeks, and then proceeded to squat 600 (at ~200lbs) a little over a year into training. He also benched 385, and deadlifted 600 sumo despite not training the deadlift at all because he didn't enjoy it (just pure squat carryover). Then he took 6 months completely off, came back, blew past all his old PRs and was nationally ranked in his weightclass for a bit. That was a fucking eye opening experience for me, it made me realize how absolutely and totally delusional I was about the role that genetics play in strength and their importance relative to other factors.

I have yet to see anyone that hit a real true plateau at a certain weight (not some easy babby's first stall shit like adding more volume or eating more) and then go on to get to the next plate increment above that - like, if you have to fucking grind and get your programming and diet perfect and live like an iron monk to bench 315, you are very likely never going to bench 405 without pharmaceutical help.

Also, sometimes it's incredible how miniscule the difference in strength is between focusing all your efforts on S/B/D and just training more generally. I just spent about 3 months not even touching a barbell for anything but RDLs, decided to test my squat and bench 10RM on a whim, and they're literally like 20 and 10lbs respectively off lifetime bests when I was 20lbs heavier and focusing on only S/B/D (obviously my 1RMs have probably suffered more than my 10RM, but still - I'm like a peaking cycle away from chipping a PR on any of these lifts if I fatfucked myself a little and avoided getting hurt). So, what the fuck was even the point of all that specialized programming?

F.
That’s how I got my bench to 315.
Little progress since.

[Skid]

Also, sometimes it's incredible how miniscule the difference in strength is between focusing all your efforts on S/B/D and just training more generally. I just spent about 3 months not even touching a barbell for anything but RDLs, decided to test my squat and bench 10RM on a whim, and they're literally like 20 and 10lbs respectively off lifetime bests when I was 20lbs heavier and focusing on only S/B/D (obviously my 1RMs have probably suffered more than my 10RM, but still - I'm like a peaking cycle away from chipping a PR on any of these lifts if I fatfucked myself a little and avoided getting hurt). So, what the fuck was even the point of all that specialized programming?

Based on my own experience I find this unlikely. Unless you are extremely weak or poorly trained.

[janoycresva]

Also, sometimes it's incredible how miniscule the difference in strength is between focusing all your efforts on S/B/D and just training more generally. I just spent about 3 months not even touching a barbell for anything but RDLs, decided to test my squat and bench 10RM on a whim, and they're literally like 20 and 10lbs respectively off lifetime bests when I was 20lbs heavier and focusing on only S/B/D (obviously my 1RMs have probably suffered more than my 10RM, but still - I'm like a peaking cycle away from chipping a PR on any of these lifts if I fatfucked myself a little and avoided getting hurt). So, what the fuck was even the point of all that specialized programming?

Based on my own experience I find this unlikely. Unless you are extremely weak or poorly trained.

not terribly weak, but I think you're on to something with "poorly trained"

I think after 10+ years of hammering S/B/D and close variations, my heart (and joints oooh owie) weren't really in it anymore, now that I'm just doing a bunch of bodybuilder bro shit and actually tailoring exercise selection to my body I can train so much harder and so much more consistently without feeling beat up

squats definitely felt fucking weird after 3 months of not doing them, but after spending so much time doing the lifts i'm never going to unlearn the technique, so it's not that hard for any sensible training to keep me within like 10% ish of lifetime PRs

2023 goals:
Wrap up this cut
Long slow bulk, my first calorie surplus while training fully for hypertrophy
Keep progressing toward 18 inch natty arms (I think I can actually accomplish this eventually)
Stay injury free

[EggMcMuffin]

I posted in the cut thread, but I hit my goal weight of 162lbs. I put on a LOT of muscle in the time I was lifting weights, while my lower body seems to have atrophied rapidly (???) my upper body looks way different to when I was 160ish when I had just started lifting at 21. Makes me want to start hitting the weights hard again but I also love running a lot. It seems I was right, I have a weird frame/fat distribution and I carry 160-170lbs best. Some other guys can be 200lbs at 5'8 and look normal but that isn't me lol

[DCR]

I put on a LOT of muscle in the time I was lifting weights

That's great, and good to see some more positivity. You've been on a roll lately.

[5hout]

I want to have lifting goals, but right now it's all cut all the time. 222 this morning. I'm very interested to see what I look like at 195-200. If my goal was humility, then I have made a lot of progress towards it. All I understand now about weight loss is that I understand nothing except that getting sleep seems to really help with willpower (for me).

It was so easy, then hard, then easy, then impossible. Now it seems to be easy again.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

I want to have lifting goals, but right now it's all cut all the time. 222 this morning. I'm very interested to see what I look like at 195-200. If my goal was humility, then I have made a lot of progress towards it. All I understand now about weight loss is that I understand nothing except that getting sleep seems to really help with willpower (for me).

It was so easy, then hard, then easy, then impossible. Now it seems to be easy again.

Dieting is very mental for me as well. Some days its easy, sometimes you just cant stop eating. Beats me.

[AlanMackey]

Dieting is very mental for me as well. Some days its easy, sometimes you just cant stop eating. Beats me.

I find it way easier skipping meals than reducing food portions.

[DCR]

Dieting is very mental for me as well. Some days its easy, sometimes you just cant stop eating. Beats me.

I find it way easier skipping meals than reducing food portions.

Agree a million percent.

[Hardartery]

Dieting is very mental for me as well. Some days its easy, sometimes you just cant stop eating. Beats me.

I find it way easier skipping meals than reducing food portions.

Agree a million percent.

Yep. Me too. I can "Intemittent fast" quite easily, and did that a lot in my life because it was inconvenient to eat or because when I am working I am working and can just go and go. Eating less than enough to feel "Full" sucks it.

[janoycresva]

Dieting is very mental for me as well. Some days its easy, sometimes you just cant stop eating. Beats me.

I find it way easier skipping meals than reducing food portions.

Agree a million percent.

Yep. Me too. I can "Intemittent fast" quite easily, and did that a lot in my life because it was inconvenient to eat or because when I am working I am working and can just go and go. Eating less than enough to feel "Full" sucks it.

Add me to the list too, my most successful cuts have been eating one large meal a day and then 4 scoops of whey post workout.

[hector]

I posted in the cut thread, but I hit my goal weight of 162lbs. I put on a LOT of muscle in the time I was lifting weights, while my lower body seems to have atrophied rapidly (???) my upper body looks way different to when I was 160ish when I had just started lifting at 21. Makes me want to start hitting the weights hard again but I also love running a lot. It seems I was right, I have a weird frame/fat distribution and I carry 160-170lbs best. Some other guys can be 200lbs at 5'8 and look normal but that isn't me lol

Congrats on hitting goal weight!
I doubt your lower body atrophied. Probably just looks smaller relative to your new upper body muscle.

[Allentown]

505 pulled.