Shoulder advice

[timelinex]

Half a year ago I got back into working out after a long pause. Part of "the deal" with starting back up was I would focus on sustainability over progress and goals. I always hated squat because I had shoulder/bicep/elbow issues with both LBBS/HBBS, so I substituted all my squats with SSB. You guys helped bolster my confidence in making this change, so I'm hoping you guys can provide some guidance here too!

What use to be my weakest and least favorite exercise is relatively doing the best and my SSB 1@8 is higher than my SSB max was at my strongest. To be fair, I'm training it as a primary lift now where before it was an accessory to HBBS and trained accordingly.

Ironically, my previously favorite (and strongest) exercise is what is giving me issues now! 3 months ago, I misgrooved a bench press rep and it messed up my shoulder. It was nothing traumatic, so I didn't think much of it. But 3 months later and my BP hasn't increased and my shoulder still hurts!

The details:

1. I've been out of town ~10 days a month, so I have not been going super hard or anything. It's definitely not over fatigued and has had enough "rest"
2. I BP 2x a week for a total of 7 sets. OHP is 4 more sets if you want to count that. OHP also hurts
3. I couldn't sleep on that shoulder for a while, but in the last few weeks, I finally can again.
4. I tried substituting 2nd BP with accessories like football bar, but it all hurts the same.

In the past, I have typically treated an injury Barbell Medicine style. I would lower the weight & volume till its not too painful.. Then slowly worked my way back up over the days/weeks. But this injury is different than most my others. It's doesn't hurt the more I workout. In fact, the most painful rep is the first rep. I'm not just being a baby about it either. It's actually painful. Then I work up very slowly and by the time I am at my 1@8, it is no longer painful. The rest of the workout it is just annoying and feels slightly less stable. So while I've made progress in that I can sleep on the shoulder, the workout pain itself has been mostly the same.

Advice? Is this just a waiting game? It's not too tall of an order for me to work through the pain.... I just don't want to turn it into a more long-term thing by doing so. Sustainability and all.

[Hardartery]

At a guess, and it is a hand wavy shotgun blast of a guess, you aren't getting your upper back tight on bench and as the sets progress the blood flow tightens things up and makes it more stable so that by the end you are finally braced well enough to stay in position and not have it hurt. This could be extremely wrong and is only a guess. You likely have a strain in a ligament in the anterior delt or a strain in the rotator cuff, not the end of the world they just take forever and a day to heal fully. How does reverse grip feel? DBs? How much of a pinch are you putting on the shoulder blades on setup? @walterkurda or @Hanley can likely offer you better advice on this than me, I hope they chip in.

[DCR]

In fact, the most painful rep is the first rep.

Can you post a recent session, with the warm ups? Wondering what the “first rep” is. We talking with the empty bar, or your first work set?

General advice knowing little else about the situation: if you’re fully pausing your reps, I’d do so while you work this out, and concentrate hard on contracting and holding your rear delts on the eccentric/pause. I’m a TnG guy generally, but never when something feels fucked up.

[DCR]

At a guess, and it is a hand wavy shotgun blast of a guess, you aren't getting your upper back tight on bench and as the sets progress the blood flow tightens things up and makes it more stable so that by the end you are finally braced well enough to stay in position and not have it hurt.

Funny, we posted simultaneously, was thinking exactly this, hence the remedy that I suggested while also guessing.

[Hanley]

@walterkurda or @Hanley can likely offer you better advice on this than me, I hope they chip in.

Eh. I don't have much. I'd probably mess around with decline and/or partial ROM (off the chest) until things feel better.

###

I just want to emphasize how awesome it is to have Walter giving advice in these boards. He's one of the best bench pressers in the world.

[timelinex]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I don't pause my reps, but I also don't bounce them. I start each set by setting my shoulder blades, then pushing into them from my feet. I go down in a controlled manner, touch my chest and then press it back up. I did try to play a little with my technique. I widened my grip from pinkies on the line to my ring finger on the line and focused on flaring my elbows out a little more (which seemed to have helped slightly over normal or the opposite). I won't claim my bench technique is perfect, but it's hard to imagine it's so bad that it's what is causing the issues. I'm not super tight on warmups, but it's also really light weight....

This was Monday's workout (1.5min rests):

45x8
95x5
135x5
185x5
225x1

255x1@8.5
225x5@9
215x5@8
215x5@8

The goal is generally @8, but I overshot even though it's the same as the week before when it was all @8's with 225. I feel like I "should be" progressing consistently, considering I'm still a good distance from my previous PR's....But I've mostly stalled and possibly regressed since the injury. To be fair, it may also be all the weeks off from travel. (Not enough volume for upper body?)

I've tried a football bar in all positions, but I I haven't tried reverse grip or DB's. I can do that this week.

------------------------------------------

I'm pretty sore from yesterday and my shoulder has been bothering me since waking up...... I tried to do a set with the bar just to try and jog my memory on how to describe the pain best...Ironically, while it doesn't feel stable and feels annoyed, there isn't pain. It's almost as if the worse pain is just when it's "freshest". Wwarming up obviously always lubed things up and made things less creaky, but I'm used to injuries hurting outside the gym and getting worse when used. Is this just what tweaks at 35+ look like

[KarlM]

I’ve had a long on again off again relationship with right shoulder pain. She’s a real bitch but I kept going back for more. We’re on a break right now and it’s definitely for the best.

In my case the culprit was too much grinding on OHP. When I stubbornly worked up to my bodyweight OHP goal, I went past the point of no return. I’m glad I can check that one off my list but damn, I’m not sure it was worth it.

I suspect that given where your bench used to be, you’ve got a bit too much weight on the bar.

PT rehab work really did help me. Lots of the normal things you hear about isolating external shoulder rotations. I did them for higher reps with bands. @Wilhelm does regular shoulder rehab work that he chronicles in his log. That’s probably a good place to start for ideas.

[Wilhelm]

I do scarecrows and Lu raises everyday.
i use 5lb plates for both.

My shoulder issue was never really bad.
leftover effect of a partial disloacation that went untreated for quite a while when i was 18.

Shoulder was 'loose" and would hurt periodically from training.
And not with the actual lifts, but in weird off angles/roms after.

I used to only do something for it when it would start hurting, but finally decided to include those two movements in my log book so i would get in the habit of doing them every day.

i haven't read OPs description of the shoulder issue.

i will say a person on /rpowerlifting thanked me publicly for the advice and said these worked for him.
He and i had the same issue though.
He also had had a partial dislocation that had lingering effects later in life.

For my scarecrows i do two sets "W"s and one vertical with upper arms parallel to floor, and moving hands through 180 degrees from pointing at floor to pointing at ceiling.

3 sets of 25, and 15,15,20 with the Lu raises.
I've missed maybe 5 days doing these since November.



Timestamped to the scarecrows

Lots of info and exercises in this article by Cressey
https://www.t-nation.com/training/crack ... conundrum/

You may also look into dead hangs for shoulder health.

[Culican]

i will say a person on /rpowerlifting thanked me publicly for the advice and said these worked for him.
He and i had the same issue though.
He also had had a partial dislocation that had lingering effects later in life.

I am going to thank you too for the suggestion and try these. I have recurrent problems with my left shoulder. Sometimes no problems with lifts but then stabbing pain when I reach into the refrigerator to get something out or reach over to grab a book off a counter. I also, when I was 27, dislocated my shoulder partially and never got it treated.

[MarkKO]

First thing I want to ask is, what kind of pain and where is it? I may have missed that in your post but typically IME that will tell you a lot about what is going on.

[timelinex]

First thing I want to ask is, what kind of pain and where is it? I may have missed that in your post but typically IME that will tell you a lot about what is going on.

The pain is in the front of the shoulder (maybe slightly lateral).

I was out of town again for 2 weeks and just returned to the gym this last week. I'm happy to say that it's gotten a little better. It's still there, but the pattern of pain is now closer to what I normally expect from a hurt shoulder. I can lay on it as long as it's not excessive. Daily activities involving the shoulder only present a little uncomfortableness. The only remaining pain is in the gym itself. There is some pain when just starting to warm up but it's not as bad as it was. The pain does persist through the heaver lifts but it's not too bad either.

I think many of you hit the nail on the head with "it's not likely anything super serious, but it's just gonna suck for a long while during the healing phase". At least that's what I'm hoping for!

I don't doubt that it's possible doing auxiliary exercises every day could keep the shoulders feeling better and speed up recovery. But I typically don't like adding daily habits for the purpose of keeping my body running smoothly. Nocebo and all. I also don't doubt that I may change my tune in 10 years as father time starts leaning harder on me

For the time being, I have just accepted that I shouldn't try to force progress on my bench press and increase weight very conservatively while things heal.

[MarkKO]

First thing I want to ask is, what kind of pain and where is it? I may have missed that in your post but typically IME that will tell you a lot about what is going on.

The pain is in the front of the shoulder (maybe slightly lateral).

I was out of town again for 2 weeks and just returned to the gym this last week. I'm happy to say that it's gotten a little better. It's still there, but the pattern of pain is now closer to what I normally expect from a hurt shoulder. I can lay on it as long as it's not excessive. Daily activities involving the shoulder only present a little uncomfortableness. The only remaining pain is in the gym itself. There is some pain when just starting to warm up but it's not as bad as it was. The pain does persist through the heaver lifts but it's not too bad either.

I think many of you hit the nail on the head with "it's not likely anything super serious, but it's just gonna suck for a long while during the healing phase". At least that's what I'm hoping for!

I don't doubt that it's possible doing auxiliary exercises every day could keep the shoulders feeling better and speed up recovery. But I typically don't like adding daily habits for the purpose of keeping my body running smoothly. Nocebo and all. I also don't doubt that I may change my tune in 10 years as father time starts leaning harder on me

For the time being, I have just accepted that I shouldn't try to force progress on my bench press and increase weight very conservatively while things heal.

Got you. Check out Andrew Lock on YT or IG. He has some excellent pointers about what different shoulder pain can mean. IIRC he said pain in the front of the shoulder can often indicate an issue in the infraspinatus, which would track because the rotator cuff is often irritated by benching.

If that is the case you can just add rehab work into your warmup and then keep it there as a preventative measure once the issue has resolved. I've found that very effective myself.