Strapping deadlifts to mitigate fatigue?

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

Although CNS fatigue when performing heavy deadlifts might not be a thing (as in your brain and your spinal chord being fatigued, which apparently only happens with endurance exercise, not strength training), I firmly believe that "central fatigue" is absolutely a thing, and to parrot Greg Nuckols, is probably mostly due to movements that load the spine and make heavy use of the erector muscles, because protecting your spine has a very high priority to ensure your survival, so it makes sense that your body reacts to this stimulus pretty drastically. I think anyone who's done a heavy deadlift session with more volume than they are used to will know the feeling of "central fatigue".

I failed to comment on this earlier, sorry. CNS is not a reference to your spinal chord. It never has been and should never should be. It is Central Nervous System, as in SYSTEMIC. It has nothing at all do with one's spinal chord. It is a bodywide system of nervous feedback, so it is not your literal physical nerves either. It has always referred to your overall base status, and things like loss of motivation and loss of appetite are hallmarks of the overtraining that is CNS fatigue. Sometimes eating more helps with it, eating better usually helps with it unless your diet is perfect, and resting always helps with it. That's what peaking is, overdoing it followed by minimal activity for a few days to a week to arrive at your well rested new higher plateau briefly.

I mean I feel that we're arguing semantics here but the CNS is literally your brain and spinal cord

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system

"The central nervous system (CNS) is the part of the nervous system consisting primarily of the brain and spinal cord"

Now, of course, when bros talk about "CNS fatigue" what they really mean is "systemic fatigue" or "central fatigue" or whatever, I think we agree on that.

"Bros" have always been talking about systemic fatigue, it seems pretty impossible for your spinal chord to be tired.

It seems impossible for your brain+spinal cord to be tired with resistance training indeed. But it seems possible with endurance training, which is interesting because it is counterintuitive.

I keep seeing that written, but no actual evidence in favour of it being true. Personal experience tells me that cardio is not a factor in it for me at all. I may be tired after I get off the treadmill or bike, or want a rest after a serious walk, but that is an extremely temporary condition and does not affect my lifting in any measureable way. Pulling heavy DL for an extended session or a brutal squat workout will absolutely affect me for a day or two, and if I stitch them together too frequently everything starts to tank. An hour a day of HIIT cardion on the treadmill did not have that effect on me, in spite of heavy SM training for a contest.

As far as I understand the studies on CNS fatigue and endurance training look at things like marathons and ultra endurance trail runs for 100 kms, and they claim to be able to measure CNS fatigue (like fatigue of the motor cortex). Now, can you get the same effect by running on the treadmill for "only" an hour (an hour being much shorter than any ultra endurance event) ? It's a good question, I'm not sure.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

Somehow related to this: this discussion reminds me of the discussion of "overtraining". The bros understood through trial and error that there is such a thing as training too much for your current recovery capabilities, and became weary of training too much. Subsequently the science nerds came in and proclaimed that overtraining does not exist because, when looking at the actual definition of overtraining syndrome (which is very narrow), this is something that does not happen very often. So the bros are right in their recommendation (make sure you don't train so much that you outstrip your recovery and stop getting stronger), they simply had the wrong model to explain their recommendation.

Its' the same here, whether or not your actual CNS gets fatigued by pulling a bunch of heavy deadlifts is somehow irrelevant for almost everyone who's not an exercise scientist. The fact of the matter is that training the deadlift hard and heavy will impact the other lifts if they are trained immediately after, and I do not think that anyone will disagree with that.

[CaptainAwesome]

Sometimes eating more helps with it, eating better usually helps with it unless your diet is perfect, and resting always helps with it.

I've been trying to attack it from this angle too. It's hard, because I'm trying to tweak the eating so I only gain weight slowly. I only go up in small increments and then try to observe results for the week as an overall trend. I haven't been eating light by any measure, though.

On the other hand, doing something like a trail run where you run continuously for 100 kms (where you will perform thousands after thousands of muscle contractions) will apparently fatigue your CNS as the studies claim.

Maybe my cardio is the culprit? I didn't think I was doing anything too hardcore. My harder cardio day has gotten up to the point where I cram about 5 clusters of tabata intervals (20 seconds on, 10 seconds off, 4 times, followed by a 2 minute slow steady state interval before the next cluster of intervals) into about a 20 minute workout. My heart rate tops out on these at about 140. I didn't think I was doing anything too crazy. I figured cardio is usually easier to recover from unless you go nuts with it. I'm sure nothing I'm doing even approaches the likes of a 100k run.

[mbasic]

So, I've been reading in some spots that people claim a lot of the lasting fatigue they get from deadlifting is reduced if they use straps for it. Has anyone experienced this personally?

No. The opposite actually. I can do a lot more damage when using straps because the limiting factor is always the grip giving up the ghost by the end of the session. With straps, I can tuck in and go til I puke.

Yeah, but this "do a lot more damage" thing is on you then, isn't it? That's not the straps fault.

Say two clone lifters do the exact same sets, reps, load .... but one with straps, and one without (say his comp. mixed grip or hook). I bet the with-straps guy is having an easier time of it.

I get some advanced lifters won't be able to the same exact workout with 'crazy' heavy loads, but with typical 70-80% 1RM loads for some decent reps and sets (that you would typically do for deadlifts, i.e. nothing crazy-volume) should be doable for most people.

But I'm guessing using straps is the less fatiguing way to go. As far as CNS fatigue vs a general *waves hands* systemtic fatigue ? ehh, I'd agree most people don't know what CNS fatigue is.

Last I heard: your CNS is actually the first thing to recover, and it somewhat resilient (Beardsley et al?)

[alphagamma]

When I am being forced to concentrate on my grip or when my grip is failing, my back position or starting position tends to slowly deteriorate which uses more energy and is hence more fatiguing.

[BostonRugger]

Just use a trap bar with neutral grip. Win win

but it tips forward and back in my hands, which hurts my feelings

Hard to describe in text, but I have a bit of a fix for this.

When I'm using the trap bar, I wrap the strap across a wider section of the bar than just underneath my hand. I start wrapping the strap farther back than where I'm going to set my hand, then as I'm continuing to wrap, I move the hand forward into position and cinch it down. The hand itself is a little forward of where it would otherwise have to be while the strap holds up the rear of the bar. Effectively it gives me a "wider hand" and stops some of that rocking back/forth. Not perfect, but better.

[CaptainAwesome]

When I am being forced to concentrate on my grip or when my grip is failing, my back position or starting position tends to slowly deteriorate which uses more energy and is hence more fatiguing.

I'm aware of the phenomenon. Whenever I'm working with someone and they can't seem to lockout the deadlift fully because the upper back won't straighten out, the grip is the first thing I want to examine as the point of failure, not the back itself. None of what I've been doing recently has been terribly challenging for my hook grip though.

[Hardartery]

No. The opposite actually. I can do a lot more damage when using straps because the limiting factor is always the grip giving up the ghost by the end of the session. With straps, I can tuck in and go til I puke.

Yeah, but this "do a lot more damage" thing is on you then, isn't it? That's not the straps fault.

Say two clone lifters do the exact same sets, reps, load .... but one with straps, and one without (say his comp. mixed grip or hook). I bet the with-straps guy is having an easier time of it.

Last I heard: your CNS is actually the first thing to recover, and it somewhat resilient (Beardsley et al?)

LOL. Sure, but that's kinda the point isn't it? Who is going to use straps and then not work until things other than the grip are suffering? I have trained entirely without straps for years, and more recently with them. My DL is very close to what it was when I was younger and not using staps, and I credit that to being able to hammer things a little more and knock out some reps in the accessory stuff. That is thanks to using the straps. My recovery is generally fine, even though I am getting more of the soul crushing work done by eliminating the straps but I definitely feel it and I did not feel it like this without straps. I also made slower progress. No sense in using straps without pushing it, that's just eliminating the benefits of the grip work for no bonus.

[Hanley]

I start wrapping the strap farther back then where I'm going to set my hand, then as I'm continuing to wrap, I move the hand forward into position and cinch it down. The hand itself is a little forward of where it would otherwise have to be while the strap holds up the rear of the bar.

I had to read this like 10 times to make any sense of it. But I think I get it. Will try.

[perman]

No sense in using straps without pushing it, that's just eliminating the benefits of the grip work for no bonus.

Well, what if not taxing your grip anymore than necessary is the point? I feel like unstrapped deadlifts hold back chins or rows later in the session.

[Hardartery]

No sense in using straps without pushing it, that's just eliminating the benefits of the grip work for no bonus.

Well, what if not taxing your grip anymore than necessary is the point? I feel like unstrapped deadlifts hold back chins or rows later in the session.

Then I would use the straps later for those things when/if the grip fails. Why would accessory work take precedence over the main course? Like less steak so you can eat extra green beans? Bring the destruction and then go to the crutch when you have to, basically. I use straps currently, but even so I don't do it until the heavier/heaviest sets and if necessary for rep work afterwards if I am doing that.

[janoycresva]

Just use a trap bar with neutral grip. Win win

but it tips forward and back in my hands, which hurts my feelings

Hard to describe in text, but I have a bit of a fix for this.

When I'm using the trap bar, I wrap the strap across a wider section of the bar than just underneath my hand. I start wrapping the strap farther back than where I'm going to set my hand, then as I'm continuing to wrap, I move the hand forward into position and cinch it down. The hand itself is a little forward of where it would otherwise have to be while the strap holds up the rear of the bar. Effectively it gives me a "wider hand" and stops some of that rocking back/forth. Not perfect, but better.

I understand completely, I do this as well with figure 8 straps. Definitely better than no straps but it can still tip, if I ever get another trap bar I’ll look for one with offset handles for sure.

[hector]

Just use a trap bar with neutral grip. Win win

but it tips forward and back in my hands, which hurts my feelings

I hated this about trap bars too.
If you can buy a trap bar where the handle is even just a bit above the center of the weights then the issue resolves itself.
I have the Prime trap bar which is fucking awesome. But expensive. I bought years ago when few options. Now there are lots of more affordable options that will similarly resolve the tipping issue.