Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

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Michiganian
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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#21

Post by Michiganian » Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:13 pm

Allentown wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:13 pm No air bike/fan bike, or prowler. Data incomplete and thus irrelevant.
I don't know about "irrelevant," but, certainly incomplete.

I don't know why neither air/assault bikes or sleds showed up in my research that time. I've since read more, from time-to-time. I still haven't seen mentions sleds when I've researched cardio machines, but, I have seen plenty of air/assault bike mentions since then.
Allentown wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:13 pm IMO, air bike is the single best piece of cardio equipment. ... nothing I've done compares to max effort sprints on the Echo.
That is the general consensus from what I've read since my prior comments. That and reading it's all too easy to injure one's self doing HIIT on a rower, because form is so crucial in avoiding doing so, resulted in me adding a Rogue Echo Bike to the gym. Did an experimental ride on it after getting it home and cleaned up. It kicked my backside :). Just finished the first session of a "beginner's HIIT progression" training program. Wasn't particularly challenging. I'm sure that'll change as the program catches up to my current level of cardio fitness.

I intend to keep my C2 rower for MICT sessions and for cardio workout variety. As for LISS: The only LISS I'll be doing is walking outdoors and warmup/cooldown on my Echo.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#22

Post by aurelius » Mon Oct 09, 2023 11:48 am

My main activity that exerts me is hiking in the mountains. I like to do incline treadmill (no hands) to 2-3 times per week to condition for that. I shoot for a 3 mph speed for 20 minutes. Once I could do the steepest incline (15%), I added a weight vest. I also do 5 minutes of stairs after incline as a finisher. At a certain point the elevation kicks my ass but this (and weightlifting) keeps me in generally good shape for most things.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#23

Post by KyleSchuant » Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:08 pm

If you have a heart rate monitor, then MAF is what you need,

https://philmaffetone.com/180-formula/
The MAF 180 Formula for determining your MAF HR

Subtract your age from 180, then modify from one of the categories below:
  • If you have or are recovering from a major illness (heart disease, any operation or hospital stay, etc.), are in rehabilitation, are on any regular medication, or are in Stage 3 (chronic) overtraining (burnout), subtract an additional 10.
  • If you are injured, have regressed or not improved in training (such as poor MAF Tests) or competition, get more than two colds, flu or other infections per year, have seasonal allergies or asthma, are overfat, are in Stage 1 or 2 of overtraining, or if you have been inconsistent, just starting, or just getting back into training, subtract an additional 5.
  • If you have been training consistently (at least four times weekly) for up to two years without any of the problems mentioned in a) or b), no modification is necessary (use 180 minus age as your MAF HR).
  • If you have been training for more than two years without any of the problems listed above, have made progress in your MAF Tests, improved competitively and are without injury, add 5.
Exceptions:

The MAF 180 Formula may need to be further individualized for athletes over the age of 65. For some, up to 10 beats may have to be added for those only in [the last] category of the Formula. This does not mean 10 should automatically be added, but that an honest self-assessment be made.

For athletes 16 years of age and under, the formula is not applicable; rather, an MAF HR of 165 has been used.
30-60' of MAF every day. For most people who've just been doing barbell stuff and who (the novice stall thread told us) are in the BMI25-30 category, that's going to be a brisk walk. If you get a (say) 50yo lifter who's a bit chubby but has a good squat and get him to walk at 6km/hr, his heart rate will get to 130bpm easily. If he keeps that up for 3 months then his resting heart rate is going to drop 5-10bpm.

If you are under BMI 30 - ie, not obese - and want to do something more aggressive, I can heartily recommend Andrew Read's Run Strong programme.

https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/the- ... -13-weeks/

The BMI guideline I add in because in my experience, if an obese person starts running even a little bit, within a month or two at most they'll get some injury of ankle, knee, or lower back. It happens without fail. Just think of it as like if you had a 6ft 160lb guy and he decided to start running regularly for the first time in his life - but to wear a 60lb pack while he was doing it. We'd expect him to get injured, yeah? That the "pack" is his blubber and not a rucksack with rocks in it is irrelevant to his ankles, knees and lower back, a load is a load.

So the bigger people just need to do MAF. It'll usually help them drop weight anyway.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#24

Post by CheekiBreekiFitness » Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:30 am

@KyleSchuant serious question: I'm about 40 years old, BMI is 30, no illnesses, so the MAF would be 140 bpm, but brisk waking would never take me to 140 bpm. Maybe 110 bpm at the very most, and to get to 140 bpm I would most definitely need to run at a medium pace. Now I never run because I detest running but that's besides the point. Are the people you are adressing terribly out of shape or have I unintentionally turned in to a crossfitter ?

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#25

Post by JohnHelton » Tue Oct 10, 2023 6:34 am

I like the MAF formula for the situation that @KyleSchuant describes. However if walking is too easy to get into the zone, then I would suggest a run/walk program as outlined by Jeff Galloway. I think it is a great way for anyone to transition from walking into running. Running does not have to be done at his steady state in order for it to be beneficial for one's health.

https://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/run-walk/

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#26

Post by KyleSchuant » Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:18 am

CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:30 amAre the people you are adressing terribly out of shape or have I unintentionally turned in to a crossfitter ?
You're only BMI30 and have a history of being physically active with barbells at least, and I'm guessing you probably walk a bit at least to get from A to B, etc. So it's unsurprising your heart rate won't hit 140 while walking.

Most people aren't like that, and a walk will do it - but only for a few months, after that they need to push a bit harder. That means some running (or cycling, rowing, etc). If you feel running sucks, then that probably means running is actually getting your heart rate up. I mean, you wouldn't be thinking it sucked because it was so easy, yeah? Some sort of walk/run programme is the way to ease into it.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#27

Post by CheekiBreekiFitness » Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:13 am

KyleSchuant wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:18 am
CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:30 amAre the people you are adressing terribly out of shape or have I unintentionally turned in to a crossfitter ?
You're only BMI30 and have a history of being physically active with barbells at least, and I'm guessing you probably walk a bit at least to get from A to B, etc. So it's unsurprising your heart rate won't hit 140 while walking.

Most people aren't like that, and a walk will do it - but only for a few months, after that they need to push a bit harder. That means some running (or cycling, rowing, etc). If you feel running sucks, then that probably means running is actually getting your heart rate up. I mean, you wouldn't be thinking it sucked because it was so easy, yeah? Some sort of walk/run programme is the way to ease into it.
That's a good point, I do walk quite a bit (I'm a standard model European lol), usually 15000 steps a day last time I attempted to track.

Now I mostly dislike running because I find it boring not because it's particularly hard, providing that the pace is within my capabilities. I always have fun when lifting weights or doing hard cardio, but I don't find running fun in the slightest.

This is actually something that I never understood: how do runners cope with boredom ? Especially longer distances. I could never figure it out.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#28

Post by JohnHelton » Wed Oct 11, 2023 6:06 am

Boredom is a problem for me on the treadmill. However it's not a problem when I'm running outside. I tend to enjoy the environment. I also think that you can condition yourself to enjoy the time spent running as opposed to getting bored while doing it. Doing timed intervals of Ron/Walk is also less boring than just steady state running. Finally, I have found that I can set an average pace as fast with a 60/30 second run/walk interval as I can with steady state when I limit my heart rate to MAF.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#29

Post by augeleven » Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:19 am

I have a small tv by my treadmill. The only tv I get is on the ‘mill, so it’s a bit of a reward. Running outside I generally am listening to audiobooks or podcasts. Running on a trail isn’t too boring, street running gets boring for me though, unless I’m on vacation.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#30

Post by KyleSchuant » Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:24 pm

I agree with the others. Running at the same pace on a treadmill is boring. Running and walking alternating less so, as you're paying attention to your watch and/or heart rate so you can get the pacing right. And in general running in the open air is more interesting, particularly if you take off your headphones and look around you.

It's good to live a lifestyle where you can walk a lot. Makes a big difference to quality and quantity of life in ways far beyond just cardiovascular endurance.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#31

Post by Michiganian » Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:14 am

KyleSchuant wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:24 pm I agree with the others. Running at the same pace on a treadmill is boring.
To me: Any steady state/continuous cardio other than walking outdoors is boring. The only LISS I can tolerate is walking. Love walking. If I just walk, enjoy the walk, it's kind of Zen-like. LISS on machines? Fuhgeddaboudit. Bores me to tears. I can do MICT for thirty minutes. That's my limit. I prefer to do HIIT for even shorter periods.

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Re: Information for total cardio noob (GPP).

#32

Post by TurtleBear » Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:52 am

I'm a nobody when it comes to cardio, but I echo everyone else here about getting outside.

I really enjoy biking back and forth to work whereas I think I would want to commit seppuku if I had to ride a stationary bike.
Even when its raining or snowing, if you can, get out and do it.

Gives you a sense of adventure for sure.

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