Problems Registering New Accounts

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Michiganian
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Problems Registering New Accounts

#1

Post by Michiganian » Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:37 am

Hi There,

A certain other body-building forum is going down the tubes. Members are looking for somewhere else to go. One of them found you. (I don't know how I missed this place when I was first looking for a body-building forum to join, but, I did.)

Thing is: Several of them tried to register here, and failed. One reason is your "secret keys." Not everybody checks a prospective new sites "Rules & Such" before seeking to register. I imagine it is a good anti-spam measure, but, it may be losing you legitimate membership, too?

Secondly: A couple of them report that, after several attempts, they aren't receiving activation emails. I don't know what, if any, tools you have to examine the success of failure of those email deliveries, but, if you have any you might want to look into that.

The following gets kind of technical. Sorry.

I had no problem with either, but, I did notice some possible issues with email delivery. (I'm a retired IT Admin.) The registration emails claim, in the inside header, to come from one domain (gmail.com); a thing called the MAIL-FROM field claims it's from another domain (hostyourservices.net), while the server that actually delivers it is from a third domain (hostingplatform.net.au). There's no authentication (DKIM, DMARC) records for the MAIL-FROM domain (hostyourservices.net). There is an SPF record, but it does not include the domain for the server that actually delivers the email (hostingplatform.net.au). That could be (part of?) the email delivery problem.

I don't have any solutions for you--other than perhaps bringing to the attention of your hosting provider the SPF record problem.

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mgil
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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#2

Post by mgil » Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:46 pm

@Michiganian, thanks for the heads up!

Yeah, the email setup is a bit wonky. Maybe @BenM can solve that? I dunno.

The security phrases are because we were getting a ton of spam accounts. When I set up the new phrases, spam went to effectively zero. It’s a double edged sword, no doubt.

I’m happy to help people set up accounts manually.

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BenM
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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#3

Post by BenM » Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:09 pm

Thanks @Michiganian - glad you found your way here at least.

As far as the signup issues go, that one is something that the admins would have to discuss whether they want to change it; I kinda took over the hosting of the forum after there were some issues with the previous host but haven't wanted to change anything in terms of the way it's setup simply because I don't want to overstep my bounds. If it's causing more problems than it's solving then it probably should be reconsidered though.

As far as the email, you are completely right, and I'm aware it's not setup properly. Not to make excuses, but I inherited this setup, and have never changed it mostly because I don't have control over the gmail account myself (@mgil has that) and I wanted to avoid setting up mailboxes on this domain (mostly because the standard mail platforms with web hosting are pretty crap, and setting up anything decent will add additional cost). Plus, again, it's not really my forum - but I had been meaning to look into it for a while, as I personally don't always receive the emails (I got a notification about this thread though) and I'm not surprised at all that others don't get them at all.

Let's fix it, eh! :)

I think the simplest solution for email is probably that I setup one email address (let's call it forum@exodus-strength.com), setup the right SPF records for it, and set it to forward everything to the gmail account. Then the forum emails will come from that address to end users (and should pass all the anti spam checks etc) but any replies to that address get forwarded back to the gmail account for action. That should be a pretty simple solution, I think - @mgil are you happy enough for emails from the forum to come from a different address, so long as the replies go to you like they're supposed to?

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BenM
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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#4

Post by BenM » Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:32 am

PS. Have setup a forwarder, tweaked the SPF record, just need to confirm that it all works and get the OK before I change anything on the forum itself.

Edit: blah, it's not working as well as I'd hoped because of the way the web host routes mail sent using php mail(). I'm gonna have to mull over it a bit; might have to setup an actual email account and send using SMTP, will come back to you when I've had a chance to play with it - might not be tonight.

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BenM
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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#5

Post by BenM » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:27 am

Eh, it took a bunch of mucking about and testing but it seems to be working, forum is sending from the new email, the emails pass SPF checks (can't do DKIM) and replies should also be forwarded back to the right place.

They may still go to user's junk folder potentially (they did for me initially until I marked as not junk) but they should at least be more reliable. Happy to see how it goes - it's unlikely to be any worse but if it is, it'd only take a few clicks to reverse the change.

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#6

Post by Michiganian » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:58 am

mgil wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:46 pm ... thanks for the heads up!
You're welcome.

Btw: Just discovered a bug in the forum software. As long as that nick tag for me was the first thing in the first line in this reply I was quoting, the forum software kept wanting to re-insert the tag wherever I tried to type! I had to delete that tag to stop it.
mgil wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:46 pm The security phrases are because we were getting a ton of spam accounts. When I set up the new phrases, spam went to effectively zero. It’s a double edged sword, no doubt.
Maybe put a clue to where the magic keys can be found on the registration page? E.g.: "If you're having trouble registering, please read yadda yadda yadda, which does not require being registered or logged-in?"
BenM wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:27 am Eh, it took a bunch of mucking about and testing but it seems to be working, forum is sending from the new email, the emails pass SPF checks (can't do DKIM) and replies should also be forwarded back to the right place.
Sounds good Image

You should be able to add a DMARC record, as well.

I'm doing SPF and DKIM checks on received email here. (I run my own mail server.) If you want to trigger an email from the system to me, I'd be happy to take a look.

I'm not doing DMARC, yet.

ETA: An on-line tech geek colleague of mine just posted to an IRC channel "Goog started requiring SPF it seems."

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#7

Post by mgil » Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:09 am

@BenM, I don’t get the forum emails either nor do I have access to the current account. That’s either @Manveer or @d0uevenlift.

I’ll see about updating the registration stuff. If you don’t see it changed in a day or so, ping on me.

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#8

Post by Michiganian » Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:32 am

Hmmm... I've "EMAIL" checked for "Someone replies to a topic to which you are subscribed" and I've received no notifications, either.

But, I also notice that, although the drop-down at the top of this thread says I'm subscribed to it, it does not show up in my User CP -> Overview -> Manage Subscriptions list. In fact that list is empty.

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BenM
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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#9

Post by BenM » Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:10 am

Stupid phpBB, that's all I can say!

So. @mgil thats interesting, I thought you had the gmail, my misunderstanding. That being the case - I kinda wonder, given Marc and Manveer's lack of presence here, whether they'd even be wanting to receive replies to that address anyway. If I don't have to worry about forwarding it to them it might make things simpler to troubleshoot the issues, too.

@Michiganian the subscription thing sounds strange. I've subscribed to this topic and it definitely shows in my watched threads list. Do you have a notification showing in the top toolbar?

On DMARC: I don't bother setting it up unless I can do both SPF and DKIM, as the two are designed to work together. I know you CAN enable DMARC without it, but... meh. Thing is, the way I have setup the email sending now, I CAN actually turn on DKIM and therefore DMARC, but I'm not convinced it will fix the delivery issues. I've just looked at the message tracking in CPanel and I can see most emails from the forum being delivered successfully, including some to gmail accounts, but I'm not sure it's 100% reliable. For example I have emails for subscribed topics turned on too, there's been a couple of those topics with replies today, but I didn't get an email, and there isn't an unsuccessful delivery in the logs either, there's just nothing.

I'm inclined to just setup an actual mailbox on an actual email platform (ie not CPanel hosting) and send/receive the forum emails from there. Will see if that helps.

The bug with mentions is a known issue; I think that's an extension that's been installed since before my time. If I remember I will see if there's an update which may improve it, it's annoying AF.

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BenM
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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#10

Post by BenM » Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:05 am

I do see at least one email in the queue to Michiganian now.... I've made a small change, but if that doesn't improve things I'll use a different mail server as noted above. In fact I've already started the process.

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#11

Post by Michiganian » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:51 am

Got a notification on that mention, @BenM.

Ok, there's still a problem with SPF. The envelope-from says the email is from exodus-strength.com, it's received from hostingplatform.net.au, but hostingplatform.net.au is not included in the list of legitimate senders for exodus-strength.com.

Code: Select all

$ dnsget -t txt exodus-strength.com
exodus-strength.com. TXT "v=spf1 +mx +a +include:spf.hostyourservices.net -all"
ETA: Disregard. Brain fart on my part (missed that "include"):

Code: Select all

$ dnsget -t txt spf.hostyourservices.net
spf.hostyourservices.net. TXT "v=spf1 +include:ip4-syd.hostingplatform.net.au +include:ip6-syd.hostingplatform.net.au +ip4:103.252.154.200 +ip4:103.252.155.200 ~all"
Note: hostyourservices.net apparently passes outgoing email through hostingplatform.net.au for some reason:

Code: Select all

Received: from se11.syd.hostingplatform.net.au (se11.syd.hostingplatform.net.au [110.232.143.229])
 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
 (No client certificate requested)
 by [Michiganian's mail server] (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7566041703
 for <[Michiganian]>; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 04:11:24 -0500 (EST)
Received: from syn07be.syd6.hostyourservices.net ([110.232.143.84])
 by se11.syd.hostingplatform.net.au with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128)
 (Exim 4.92)
 (envelope-from <forum@exodus-strength.com>)
 id 1pMmfa-0002Qx-2S
 for [Michiganian]; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 20:11:18 +1100
 

Oh, and yes: I do see notifications in the toolbar. Have all along.
Last edited by Michiganian on Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#12

Post by Michiganian » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:32 am

BenM wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:10 am @Michiganian the subscription thing sounds strange. I've subscribed to this topic and it definitely shows in my watched threads list. Do you have a notification showing in the top toolbar?
Clarification on what I meant:

E.g.: If I go into the Inversion table thread and click on the wrench drop-down to the upper-left, the Subscribe topic checkbox is checked. This implies, to me, I'm subscribed to that thread. Yet if I go to Michiganian -> User Control Panel -> Manage subscriptions, it's not there. Nor are any of the other threads in which I've participated and, I presume, to which I'm subscribed?

Come to think of it: I don't get notifications for new posts to those threads, in the Notifications indicator, here, either.

Ok, this is not what I'd call "intuitive." Wondered what would happen if I "unsubscribed" to the Inversion table thread and re-subscribed. Lo and behold: Upon the first click, the menu item changed from Subscribe topic with a checked box to Unsubscribe topic with an unchecked box, and now the topic appears in my Manage subscriptions list.

So that's one mystery solved :)

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mgil
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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#13

Post by mgil » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:07 pm

Updated the info for the registration questions to defeat the spambots.

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BenM
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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#14

Post by BenM » Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:03 am

Thanks @mgil.

Unfortunately I've been absolutely under the pump at work and I haven't had a chance to check out the email thing just yet. I do think that since the change I made last night it's been more reliable (I've had about 8 emails from the forum over the last 24 hours!)

@Michiganian When I looked at the headers last night they were passing SPF checks, but I'll look again when I can find a few minutes. If the extra hostname needs to be added to the SPF record then that's easy enough to do, and if it's still working reliably I'll setup DKIM & DMARC too. But it may be the weekend before I get back to it.

Also I see what you mean about the checkbox, I guess I never noticed that! It does seem like it's the opposite of what you'd expect, but I'm not sure I have the mental bandwidth to play with the theme to change it, we'll see how motivated I get :)

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#15

Post by Michiganian » Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:29 am

BenM wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:03 am @Michiganian When I looked at the headers last night they were passing SPF checks,
They are. I added a note, later, that I'd missed that your SPF txt record was an "include" directive, so never mind.

That being said: My own SPF-checking stuff on my mail server doesn't seem to always... check? Not sure exactly what in the Wide, Wide World Of Sports that's all about Image It should do it always or do it never.

So... yay

ETA: Oh... haha. I'd forget my head if it wasn't screwed on. I registered here with a tagged email address which is automatically pre-approved before SPF checks, etc.

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#16

Post by Clearwater47 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:38 am

Just wanted to chime in and say thank you for looking into these issues. I had a bit of trouble getting registered myself - took me 2 days to finally get it sorted out. It should be much easier for other newcomers now. :)

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#17

Post by BenM » Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:51 am

Well, happy to try and make things better if we can, I'm sure. Glad you made it here!

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#18

Post by BenM » Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:00 am

Michiganian wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:29 am ETA: Oh... haha. I'd forget my head if it wasn't screwed on. I registered here with a tagged email address which is automatically pre-approved before SPF checks, etc.
Ahhh yeah I noticed that. The old 'unique email address per site' trick, so you know who sold / leaked your email when they start spamming you.

I hope that's never us! But I'm surprised you chose to not check SPF to that address.

I shouldn't talk about work but this is pretty generic. One of our domains (luckily one that doesn't have a wide impact) was mistakenly setup without SPF and nobody noticed, until a spammer did. A few months ago I had to assist someone filtering thousands of bounce messages a day (many of them abusive) after they spoofed the email address of a shared mailbox and used a commercial SMTP gateway to throw out probably hundreds of thousands of spam emails. It was a mess for a while.

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#19

Post by Michiganian » Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:46 am

BenM wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:00 am The old 'unique email address per site' trick, so you know who sold / leaked your email when they start spamming you.
Well, it has a number of advantages. That's one, but, it also allows me to detect a phishing attempt right out of the gate--no matter how realistic-looking it may be. If it didn't go to the exact tagged address I know I gave the alleged sender, it wasn't that sender. Also adds one more thing bad guys have to know/guess to hack an account based on email address identification.
BenM wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:00 am I hope that's never us! But I'm surprised you chose to not check SPF to that address.
I do now.

The "tagged recipient address" check came just before the SPF check. Used to be the other way around, and is again, but, one day, when I was renewing something at a State government site, I failed to get confirmation of payment. "Hmmm..." Checked the mail logs. The State in question had at some point added or changed payment methods to include/use a card processor. They had the card processor claiming the email receipt was from the State, but, it was sent from the card processors servers. Problem is: The State's IT people had never added the card processors domain to their SPF records, and they had SPF set for hard fail ("-all").

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Re: Problems Registering New Accounts

#20

Post by BenM » Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:53 pm

That story does not surprise me. I field multiple queries weekly from users wanting emails released from our filters that have failed DMARC checks and the senders have their DMARC rule set to quarantine failed messages. So. Many. Organisations. Set this stuff up and don't cover off all the systems sending mail on their behalf. It's frustrating.

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