Guns and Shit

[mouse]

- Ban on concealed carry on a number of public property types and ALL private property without express permission from owner.

We have this in good Ole NY and I can tell you it doesn't matter...

Just another non sense law they don't even plan to enforce...

Sept 13th the state (NY) finally has to meet it's own deadline to set up a point-of-contact system to deal with required background checks for all ammunition sales. From what I've been told the state has hired a whopping 60 people to run it... for every box of .22 sold... every day... state wide...

Can't wait to see how efficient it is...

[5hout]

- Ban on concealed carry on a number of public property types and ALL private property without express permission from owner.

We have this in good Ole NY and I can tell you it doesn't matter...

Just another non sense law they don't even plan to enforce...

Sept 13th the state (NY) finally has to meet it's own deadline to set up a point-of-contact system to deal with required background checks for all ammunition sales. From what I've been told the state has hired a whopping 60 people to run it... for every box of .22 sold... every day... state wide...

Can't wait to see how efficient it is...

Two thoughts.
1: "Just another non sense law they don't even plan to enforce... ". Disagree. Like most laws of this kind it's intended to be used against people they feel like turbo-fucking for one reason or another. When not enforced, despite clear and public violation, they'll cite prosecutorial discretion/"not in the interests of justice". When they feel like enforcing it they say "the law is the law, just because sometimes we've been lenient or there were other circumstances doesn't mean this isn't a crime". This is not an accident. I have come to believe there is sustained conscious parallelism (to steal a phrase from antitrust law where 2 actors never talk, and yet have created a scheme) to do this as much as possible.

2: "Can't wait to see how efficient it is..." the point is to make it as shitty as possible, thus reducing ammo sales, plus making some bonus criminals they can optionally turbo-fuck when people evade the system after waiting over and over and over again. This is a feature (the feature?) and not a bug. Plus they know it'll take years (if ever) for their scheme to make it super shitty to purchase legal ammo get thrown out by the courts. If it looks likely to get thrown out they'll hire a bunch of people and then claim it's moot.

[mikeylikey]

Like most laws of this kind it's intended to be used against "people" they feel like turbo-fucking for one reason or another.

ftfy

This is a feature (the feature?) and not a bug.

Strong agree.

[aurelius]

Obviously this is the same LIBERAL FBI that botched the Crooked Hillary investigation and came up with the SHAM 20216 Russia collusion SAD hoax protecting Baldwin who hates and does a very un-funny impersonation of TRUMP.

I wish that were true. That would require a high level of competence. It would be somewhat comforting to know there are cable, competent people running things. Sure, they are a wee bit evil but the trains run on time dammit!

Sadly, the world is full of a bunch of incompetent baffoons.

[aurelius]

conscious parallelism

Hadn't thought of this in forever. Had to look it up. The classic Gas station gas price example. Good shit.

[mouse]

Two thoughts.
1: "Just another non sense law they don't even plan to enforce... ". Disagree. Like most laws of this kind it's intended to be used against people they feel like turbo-fucking for one reason or another. When not enforced, despite clear and public violation, they'll cite prosecutorial discretion/"not in the interests of justice". When they feel like enforcing it they say "the law is the law, just because sometimes we've been lenient or there were other circumstances doesn't mean this isn't a crime". This is not an accident. I have come to believe there is sustained conscious parallelism (to steal a phrase from antitrust law where 2 actors never talk, and yet have created a scheme) to do this as much as possible.

I know this but even in that case I feel like a lot of these charges are rare or don't even stick. I'd love to know how many people actually get popped for some of the shit on the books around here...

2: "Can't wait to see how efficient it is..." the point is to make it as shitty as possible, thus reducing ammo sales, plus making some bonus criminals they can optionally turbo-fuck when people evade the system after waiting over and over and over again. This is a feature (the feature?) and not a bug. Plus they know it'll take years (if ever) for their scheme to make it super shitty to purchase legal ammo get thrown out by the courts. If it looks likely to get thrown out they'll hire a bunch of people and then claim it's moot.

I feel like you're smart enough to know I know all of this...

That was the clearest sarcasm I could muster on the internet without tYpInG LiKe ThIs

[5hout]

Two thoughts.
1: "Just another non sense law they don't even plan to enforce... ". Disagree. Like most laws of this kind it's intended to be used against people they feel like turbo-fucking for one reason or another. When not enforced, despite clear and public violation, they'll cite prosecutorial discretion/"not in the interests of justice". When they feel like enforcing it they say "the law is the law, just because sometimes we've been lenient or there were other circumstances doesn't mean this isn't a crime". This is not an accident. I have come to believe there is sustained conscious parallelism (to steal a phrase from antitrust law where 2 actors never talk, and yet have created a scheme) to do this as much as possible.

I know this but even in that case I feel like a lot of these charges are rare or don't even stick. I'd love to know how many people actually get popped for some of the shit on the books around here...

2: "Can't wait to see how efficient it is..." the point is to make it as shitty as possible, thus reducing ammo sales, plus making some bonus criminals they can optionally turbo-fuck when people evade the system after waiting over and over and over again. This is a feature (the feature?) and not a bug. Plus they know it'll take years (if ever) for their scheme to make it super shitty to purchase legal ammo get thrown out by the courts. If it looks likely to get thrown out they'll hire a bunch of people and then claim it's moot.

I feel like you're smart enough to know I know all of this...

That was the clearest sarcasm I could muster on the internet without tYpInG LiKe ThIs

Wooshed on me, my bad

Extreme sleep deprivation last week. Shoulda known better than to internet while that tired.

[DoctorWho]

Recommendations for shotgun cleaning kit?

[5hout]

Recommendations for shotgun cleaning kit?

Shotgun cleaning? I'm unfamiliar with this term.

Joke aside bore snake in appropriate gauge + normal chemicals (i.e. lots of penetrating oil and elbow grease or Hoppes #9). For my bird barrel that's all it gets. My slug barrel gets cleaned with a bore brush dipped in Hoppes + jagged till spotless. If you've got a gas operated shotgun check owner's manual for specific recommendations, the gas systems can require specific cleaning in a way a higher pressure system (i.e. AR) might not.

[DoctorWho]

Thanks. For a shotgun, an autoloader counts as a gas-operated -- yes?

Any experience with shotgun cams? Gave up skeet 15 years ago. At the time, I could never tell why I missed. But will a shotgun cam tell me?

"Deliberate practice"

[5hout]

Thanks. For a shotgun, an autoloader counts as a gas-operated -- yes?

Any experience with shotgun cams? Gave up skeet 15 years ago. At the time, I could never tell why I missed. But will a shotgun cam tell me?

"Deliberate practice"

Yup, that counts.

Skeet: I worked at a gun range in high school for a while and sometimes gave introductory skeet lessons at minimum wage + tips (and pulled and cleaned poop and blahblahblah). I am not good, PR 18/25. This was before shotgun cams were cheap, so I've never used one.

First thought: A shotgun cam will probably tell you where you're missing. It won't tell you why. What will tell you is an hour or two lesson with a local skeet pro. That said...

People miss because of 3 reason.

0. Not knowing where their shotgun actually shoots. This doesn't count as a top 3, but you need to know if you're putting the clay on top of the pin or covering it with the pin (when mounted correctly). Very via manual for gun and shooting at a paper target at 25 yards.

1. They mount the gun inconsistently or incorrectly. You need to be looking flat down the rib, if there is any upwards angle (which very often happens when people mount after saying pull or even when they have mounted correctly pre-pull, but quickly fuck it up upon moving). Hitting skeet with an improper mount is pure luck. Corrective action: Mount gun correctly, and stay correct while moving. Sometimes shooting a few rounds with a full choke can help confirm you've corrected this or not, b/c often a kinda crap mount will be covered by using an open choke on closeish-medium distance shots.

2. Stopping when they pull the trigger or "pulling through" via jerking the muzzle wildly as they shoot. Corrective action: Stop doing this. JK JK wear double hearing protection (foam + muffs) and shoot 1-2 boxes at a head high stake (or higher). Start with hips at correct angle to shoot target, load body via twisting. Shoot as you pass the stake. Your only concern is to pull trigger crisply and change nothing about your rotation/angle/speed.

3. Not knowing if you're a sustained lead shooter or a pull through shooter. Basically, some people shoot via establishing and maintaining a "sustained lead" on the clay (say 1 clays distance at a certain station) and shooting as soon as they get to it. Other people shoot more "instinctively" via pulling through and shooting as they do, varying the speed or delay on the shot by practice and instinct. When I was a in HS it was thought that sustained lead was the only pro way, but that for amateurs or hunters only shooting occasionally pulling through would get you better scores, faster (but top out). Pulling through can be very streaky/high variance. I do not think it matters that much unless you're going for competition scores. If you know what you want to do, pick one and do it. Too many people just sort of shout pull and shoot at the clay without having any conception of either or randomly switch back and forth/shoot some stations one way/some other way. This is bad mkay.

Finally, bonus point, for the love of god do not get into the habit of long shots. This is one reason pull through is helpful, you can't dick around b/c the entire thing is based on pulling through and shooting (whereas a person that shoots 3-5 rounds of skeet per year as a sustained lead shooter often waits till the clay is about to hit the ground). Get your lead and shoot, today.

So to bring it back to cam. I think it might help you figure some of this stuff out, but 1-2 hours of coaching will be infinitely better overall. Also, the world's most boring advice of "shooting 1-2 rounds every 2 weeks is better than 10 rounds twice a year". If you really want to practice go when the range is slow and ask to go shoot 2 rounds at 1 station. IMO stations 3 and 5 are the best for this. Fun shots, not too difficult and not too easy. 1/2 are more "there is just a dumb trick to this". 8 is also a trick.

[DoctorWho]

Thanks. So much in there. I recall having a lot of trouble with my glasses and my eyesight is way worse, so I'm looking into that too.

[mbasic]

Is Brandon Herrera really running for Congress?

[5hout]

Is Brandon Herrera really running for Congress?

It seems to be a real primary challenge, but I would note that Rep. Gonzales faced a primary challenger last time and handled it. Yes he is a little centrist, but doesn't seem have any huge knocks that will let a primary challenger win. I wish Herrera well just from a for the lulz perspective, but this doesn't seem likely to work.

[BostonRugger]

Didn't know where else to post this, but it reminded me of Rip's "standard model European" comment. Certainly applies to many of us here as well.

Guns not needed, maybe some boiling oil or other siege defense weaponry. Or just the will to be violent in defense of your own life.

[aurelius]

Guns not needed, maybe some boiling oil or other siege defense weaponry. Or just the will to be violent in defense of your own life.

That is my takeaway. Two adults watched a known violent man scale a ladder and then attack them. They had the cognizance to film it but not defend themselves? A Saturday morning cartoon defense would have been effective in this case. I don't understand people anymore.

[5hout]

Guns not needed, maybe some boiling oil or other siege defense weaponry. Or just the will to be violent in defense of your own life.

That is my takeaway. Two adults watched a known violent man scale a ladder and then attack them. They had the cognizance to film it but not defend themselves? A Saturday morning cartoon defense would have been effective in this case. I don't understand people anymore.

While I am firmly on the better to be judge by 12 than carried by 6 side of things, I do wonder if part of this is Sweden's self defense laws. AFAIK they are fairly favorable to the attacker.

Note from the threat:

Mohammed Amana was sentenced to two years in prison and is to be deported with a ten-year ban on returning to Sweden. This is not the first time he has been sentenced to deportation, but the earlier deportation was never carried out. Instead, Mohammed Amana has remained in the country and committed several new crimes, for which he has been sentenced in recent years. It remains to be seen whether the new deportation will be carried out.

[mikeylikey]

I do wonder if part of this is Sweden's self defense laws. AFAIK they are fairly favorable to the attacker.

Why, because Sweden?

Based on wikipedia, which is all the more I care to research the subject, it seems their self-defense laws would fall somewhere between New York and Texas, i.e. probably not to blame here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_(Sweden)

[aurelius]

Why, because Sweden?

And Sweden has legal personal firearm ownership with high firearm ownership rate per capita.

[5hout]

I do wonder if part of this is Sweden's self defense laws. AFAIK they are fairly favorable to the attacker.

Why, because Sweden?

Based on wikipedia, which is all the more I care to research the subject, it seems their self-defense laws would fall somewhere between New York and Texas, i.e. probably not to blame here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_(Sweden)

My recollection, having reflected on it, is that in practice they fairly strictly apply the requirement to not have less damaging alternatives. I.e. in this case you might have someone say you baited him into it by not pushing the ladder immediately therefore pushing him off at the top (when risk of death/serious injury is extremely high) would be unjustifiable (putting it another way: if you have a low-violence way to stop it (quick push when he's setting the ladder up, you can't elect the high violence way).

I'm not saying the person was performing this calculus, just that this kind of background "what's reasonable" might have permeated some of the thought process. More likely is the person didn't think exBF would be serious and then once at the top didn't want to kill him.

This impression either came from CounterStrike podcasts talking about Swedish self defense laws* or following crazy news stories of violence in Sweden.

*Following Dreamhack 2015 everyone was suddenly an armchair expert in Swedish self defense laws. The short story is that a player was incited against a caster, and then allowed backstage into a non-player area to confront the caster. Player tried to assault caster, caster pushed him away. Scene went fucking berserk and everyone talked about Swedish law for a few months.