2023 Training Goals

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SnakePlissken
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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#61

Post by SnakePlissken » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:09 am

Hardartery wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:59 am
SnakePlissken wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:31 am
Hardartery wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:10 pm
mouse wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:47 pm
Hardartery wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:45 pm
mouse wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:33 pm
mouse wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:15 am
James wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:05 am Not being in an industrial accident in July for the third time would be nice.
Does everyone know something I don't? How has no one asked about this yet?

Anyway...

- get back to normal fat instead of just fat
- compete once or twice and don't suck
- hassle muff until he squats 405
- build a barn or an addition or something
- don't go further into debt hell doing it
- keep the shitbox from bursting into flames
11 days into the year and the puddles of transmission fluid in the parking lot have determined this is the first goal to be addressed
Which transmission does it have in it? 4L80E? 4L60E? Different newer Allison deal?
The famed 4L60E...

It was leaking at the trans cooler return line fitting... the lines themselves actually looked alright but of course ended up breaking off inside the fitting...

So I ended up just finding a universal cooler and hooking up the existing lines with some compression fittings and hose...

Discovered I should probably replace my power steering cooler too and that I'm completely missing my passenger side sway bar link so... the goal continues...
LOL. I still prefer Chevy. Stuff breaks, they are not perfect, but I always got home and parts were never very expensive. My Ford adventure left me stranded daily for 6 weeks until I traded it in on something else, and never did figure out what the hell was wrong with it.
Post Bailout GM is a much different ball game though. I got a 2018 Silverado because the 2000 Sierra I inherited from my dad got to 250k before my 4L60e had 4 neutrals, but the new stuff is junk. Oil pan leaks, radiator leaked almost 2 gallons of coolant on me because it's flimsy and cracked (not covered by the 2014-2015 TSB and the Powertrain warranty doesn't cover radiators either), water pump grenaded itself at a train crossing and already makes a rattling sound coming from the transmission on slight uphills when it's at about 950-1k RPMs. Been stranded twice by a new truck with less than 60k miles and I know it won't be the last either.
Here's where I sound like the old man that I am. Damnit. I hate all of the new stuff. I liked my 1989, I loved that model all the way to 1997 when they ended it. I did not like my 2005, I thought it was ugly and had a few quirks I wasn't a fan of, but nothing as bad as the 1995 Ford I had. I hated a lot of things about my 2010, starting from how hideous it was all the way through the weird crap I couldn't disable. It pissed me off that it defaulted back to outside air every time I shut it off, and that it liked to shut off the A/C when I put it on defog. And it was really ugly, did I mention that? I like the looks of the newest model, a lot. I am positive I would hate everything else about it, but that goes for literally every new vehicle out there. I am most likely to buy a classic and restore it, like the 1966 I was driving when I quit working and started doing what I do. But, I also don't like anything smaller than 2500 and prefer a 3500/30 size. I don't need it, I just like them better. Half tons kinda piss me off in daily use. I am kinda sorta watching for a Delivery in the 55-67 year ranges to redo frame off. Not that I'm ever in the US to do the work or drive it, but if I come across one I'm likely to pull the trigger. And honestly, I would consider doing a conversion to EV on it, all aftermarket.
Agreed on the look of the 2000s chevy trucks. Never liked the look of it, but aside from fuel pump failures my 2000 ran pretty stout. Cylinder pressures were perfect except for 1 cylinder when I had them tested around 220k mi. Agree on the half tons too. At this point, I think the Big 3 just pump out 1/2 ton trucks knowing they'll sell so they aren't doing their due diligence, hence why I hear terrible things about reliability from all of the Big 3 and it goes beyond 4L60e memes.

Adding to my 2023 goals: try to keep my POS edition Chebby from stranding me on the road this year.

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EggMcMuffin
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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#62

Post by EggMcMuffin » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm

I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#63

Post by MarkKO » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am

EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#64

Post by DCR » Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:49 am

EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well
My dad has 1995 Miata that I used to take down the shore when I was 18. (I’m 44.) When I lost my car in Ida in late 2021, I borrowed it from him for a few weeks. Nothing had changed.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#65

Post by Hardartery » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am

MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#66

Post by SnakePlissken » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am

EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
Most businesses in general at this point are just extracting money from us by giving us cheap products, fast and making us pay subscriptions on it.

Also a 79 K10 that runs is worth at least $10k. A 2000 miata is also worth a pretty penny at this point. I really wish I had sold my Chebby at peak market and bought an old K10 at this point and probably would've until I bought a project bike instead.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#67

Post by hector » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:55 am

DCR wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:49 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well
My dad has 1995 Miata that I used to take down the shore when I was 18. (I’m 44.) When I lost my car in Ida in late 2021, I borrowed it from him for a few weeks. Nothing had changed.
I got 293,000 miles out of my Miata.
Issues were rare.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#68

Post by EggMcMuffin » Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:24 am

Yeah, my Miata has had at least 3+ owners and the last one was some burnout teenager who molested it with eBay shit. Only real issue is the transmission makes weird grinding noises so I have parked it for now since my Buick has been bleeding me dry and I don't have time or money to fuck with it anymore.

https://ibb.co/RNspSJ7

K10 needs serious work.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#69

Post by MarkKO » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:54 pm

Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
I'm not surprised about the road trips TBH, I think it'll take a little time for the technology to develop batteries that can hold enough charge for longer drives.

I won't be getting one for a while, so hopefully by the time I do things will have come along a lot.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#70

Post by FredM » Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am

Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#71

Post by Hardartery » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am

FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#72

Post by oldguy » Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:28 am

Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am
FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.
I’m a little mystified by this assertion shared by many unless you are saying competition is also crap. ( I have previously owned a a dodge and ford pickup - liked both but obviously n=1). I am no mechanic so I have no first hand experience working on any of them.

Anyway, a product that is total crap for 30 years that has plenty of competition happens to also be the number 1 selling vehicle for each of those 30 years. In an age of an abundance of information- wouldn’t these shit products have been found out and market share lost ? Also, I am fairly certain that Ford’s market share of fleet sales is even higher. So , these businesses and government agencies would have plenty of first hand experience/ records. Surely if they were crap, it would have been discovered and changes made - no ?

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#73

Post by Hardartery » Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:41 am

oldguy wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:28 am
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am
FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.
I’m a little mystified by this assertion shared by many unless you are saying competition is also crap. ( I have previously owned a a dodge and ford pickup - liked both but obviously n=1). I am no mechanic so I have no first hand experience working on any of them.

Anyway, a product that is total crap for 30 years that has plenty of competition happens to also be the number 1 selling vehicle for each of those 30 years. In an age of an abundance of information- wouldn’t these shit products have been found out and market share lost ? Also, I am fairly certain that Ford’s market share of fleet sales is even higher. So , these businesses and government agencies would have plenty of first hand experience/ records. Surely if they were crap, it would have been discovered and changes made - no ?
Ford's sales are mostly fleet driven, and very much a reflection of price. The base F-150 is cheaper than the competition, certainly when negotiating fleet/multiple vehicle purchases. They are generally okay to drive for about 2 years, at which point you better be moving on to the next vehicle. Seriously. They break a lot and the parts are extraordinarily expensive. I used to like Ford, up even into the 80's they made some reasonably good trucks that could take a beating. Being the number 1 is also a little misleading. They outsell Chevy and GMC separately. Chevy and GMC are the same truck, just different lipstick. Combined Chevy and GMC sales are well above Ford last time I looked. Not that any of them make a great half ton these days IMO. My personal experience, combined with all of the tradesmen I worked with was that Ford is a crapshoot, Dodge is expensive to maintain, and Chevy is more epensive up front. Some Fords will roll half a million miles with minimal issues, but most are toxic to own after 50k miles.

MarkKO
Registered User
Posts: 2632
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:12 pm
Location: Australia

Re: 2023 Training Goals

#74

Post by MarkKO » Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:45 pm

Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:41 am
oldguy wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:28 am
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am
FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.
I’m a little mystified by this assertion shared by many unless you are saying competition is also crap. ( I have previously owned a a dodge and ford pickup - liked both but obviously n=1). I am no mechanic so I have no first hand experience working on any of them.

Anyway, a product that is total crap for 30 years that has plenty of competition happens to also be the number 1 selling vehicle for each of those 30 years. In an age of an abundance of information- wouldn’t these shit products have been found out and market share lost ? Also, I am fairly certain that Ford’s market share of fleet sales is even higher. So , these businesses and government agencies would have plenty of first hand experience/ records. Surely if they were crap, it would have been discovered and changes made - no ?
Ford's sales are mostly fleet driven, and very much a reflection of price. The base F-150 is cheaper than the competition, certainly when negotiating fleet/multiple vehicle purchases. They are generally okay to drive for about 2 years, at which point you better be moving on to the next vehicle. Seriously. They break a lot and the parts are extraordinarily expensive. I used to like Ford, up even into the 80's they made some reasonably good trucks that could take a beating. Being the number 1 is also a little misleading. They outsell Chevy and GMC separately. Chevy and GMC are the same truck, just different lipstick. Combined Chevy and GMC sales are well above Ford last time I looked. Not that any of them make a great half ton these days IMO. My personal experience, combined with all of the tradesmen I worked with was that Ford is a crapshoot, Dodge is expensive to maintain, and Chevy is more epensive up front. Some Fords will roll half a million miles with minimal issues, but most are toxic to own after 50k miles.
This is interesting to me because down under Ford has a pretty good rep across the board as far as I'm aware. The new Ranger is really quite popular here and has been for a while. The one that has a bit of an iffy reputation is the Amarok, partly because parts and maintenance is so damn expensive.

We have a good range of trucks here though, although not too many half tonnes I don't think. Mostly they're Japanese: Mazda BT-50, Hilux, Mitsubishi Triton, Isuzu D-Max and the Nissan Navara. They're all similarly priced.

User avatar
Hardartery
Registered User
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:28 pm
Location: Fat City

Re: 2023 Training Goals

#75

Post by Hardartery » Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:26 pm

MarkKO wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:45 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:41 am
oldguy wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:28 am
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am
FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.
I’m a little mystified by this assertion shared by many unless you are saying competition is also crap. ( I have previously owned a a dodge and ford pickup - liked both but obviously n=1). I am no mechanic so I have no first hand experience working on any of them.

Anyway, a product that is total crap for 30 years that has plenty of competition happens to also be the number 1 selling vehicle for each of those 30 years. In an age of an abundance of information- wouldn’t these shit products have been found out and market share lost ? Also, I am fairly certain that Ford’s market share of fleet sales is even higher. So , these businesses and government agencies would have plenty of first hand experience/ records. Surely if they were crap, it would have been discovered and changes made - no ?
Ford's sales are mostly fleet driven, and very much a reflection of price. The base F-150 is cheaper than the competition, certainly when negotiating fleet/multiple vehicle purchases. They are generally okay to drive for about 2 years, at which point you better be moving on to the next vehicle. Seriously. They break a lot and the parts are extraordinarily expensive. I used to like Ford, up even into the 80's they made some reasonably good trucks that could take a beating. Being the number 1 is also a little misleading. They outsell Chevy and GMC separately. Chevy and GMC are the same truck, just different lipstick. Combined Chevy and GMC sales are well above Ford last time I looked. Not that any of them make a great half ton these days IMO. My personal experience, combined with all of the tradesmen I worked with was that Ford is a crapshoot, Dodge is expensive to maintain, and Chevy is more epensive up front. Some Fords will roll half a million miles with minimal issues, but most are toxic to own after 50k miles.
This is interesting to me because down under Ford has a pretty good rep across the board as far as I'm aware. The new Ranger is really quite popular here and has been for a while. The one that has a bit of an iffy reputation is the Amarok, partly because parts and maintenance is so damn expensive.

We have a good range of trucks here though, although not too many half tonnes I don't think. Mostly they're Japanese: Mazda BT-50, Hilux, Mitsubishi Triton, Isuzu D-Max and the Nissan Navara. They're all similarly priced.
I'm starting to believe that Ford makes a different product for Europe and Australia. They are much more famous for depreciation and unreliability in N America. It used to be a pretty good truck, reliable if nothing else. My father had a 1981 F-350 that put the odometer around 3 times before the engine gave up the ghost, we had the old one out and a new one in with a new clutch and everything in one afternoon. Less than 5 hours to do a complete swap. And he drove home with the bearings gone from the old one, sounded like machine gun fire going down the road.

MarkKO
Registered User
Posts: 2632
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:12 pm
Location: Australia

Re: 2023 Training Goals

#76

Post by MarkKO » Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:56 pm

Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:26 pm
MarkKO wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:45 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:41 am
oldguy wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:28 am
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am
FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.
I’m a little mystified by this assertion shared by many unless you are saying competition is also crap. ( I have previously owned a a dodge and ford pickup - liked both but obviously n=1). I am no mechanic so I have no first hand experience working on any of them.

Anyway, a product that is total crap for 30 years that has plenty of competition happens to also be the number 1 selling vehicle for each of those 30 years. In an age of an abundance of information- wouldn’t these shit products have been found out and market share lost ? Also, I am fairly certain that Ford’s market share of fleet sales is even higher. So , these businesses and government agencies would have plenty of first hand experience/ records. Surely if they were crap, it would have been discovered and changes made - no ?
Ford's sales are mostly fleet driven, and very much a reflection of price. The base F-150 is cheaper than the competition, certainly when negotiating fleet/multiple vehicle purchases. They are generally okay to drive for about 2 years, at which point you better be moving on to the next vehicle. Seriously. They break a lot and the parts are extraordinarily expensive. I used to like Ford, up even into the 80's they made some reasonably good trucks that could take a beating. Being the number 1 is also a little misleading. They outsell Chevy and GMC separately. Chevy and GMC are the same truck, just different lipstick. Combined Chevy and GMC sales are well above Ford last time I looked. Not that any of them make a great half ton these days IMO. My personal experience, combined with all of the tradesmen I worked with was that Ford is a crapshoot, Dodge is expensive to maintain, and Chevy is more epensive up front. Some Fords will roll half a million miles with minimal issues, but most are toxic to own after 50k miles.
This is interesting to me because down under Ford has a pretty good rep across the board as far as I'm aware. The new Ranger is really quite popular here and has been for a while. The one that has a bit of an iffy reputation is the Amarok, partly because parts and maintenance is so damn expensive.

We have a good range of trucks here though, although not too many half tonnes I don't think. Mostly they're Japanese: Mazda BT-50, Hilux, Mitsubishi Triton, Isuzu D-Max and the Nissan Navara. They're all similarly priced.
I'm starting to believe that Ford makes a different product for Europe and Australia. They are much more famous for depreciation and unreliability in N America. It used to be a pretty good truck, reliable if nothing else. My father had a 1981 F-350 that put the odometer around 3 times before the engine gave up the ghost, we had the old one out and a new one in with a new clutch and everything in one afternoon. Less than 5 hours to do a complete swap. And he drove home with the bearings gone from the old one, sounded like machine gun fire going down the road.
It's quite possible. Are cars cheaper in the US? Over here they aren't cheap, so no one would be buying a car they knew was garbage.

User avatar
Hardartery
Registered User
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:28 pm
Location: Fat City

Re: 2023 Training Goals

#77

Post by Hardartery » Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:22 pm

MarkKO wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:56 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:26 pm
MarkKO wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:45 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:41 am
oldguy wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:28 am
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am
FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.
I’m a little mystified by this assertion shared by many unless you are saying competition is also crap. ( I have previously owned a a dodge and ford pickup - liked both but obviously n=1). I am no mechanic so I have no first hand experience working on any of them.

Anyway, a product that is total crap for 30 years that has plenty of competition happens to also be the number 1 selling vehicle for each of those 30 years. In an age of an abundance of information- wouldn’t these shit products have been found out and market share lost ? Also, I am fairly certain that Ford’s market share of fleet sales is even higher. So , these businesses and government agencies would have plenty of first hand experience/ records. Surely if they were crap, it would have been discovered and changes made - no ?
Ford's sales are mostly fleet driven, and very much a reflection of price. The base F-150 is cheaper than the competition, certainly when negotiating fleet/multiple vehicle purchases. They are generally okay to drive for about 2 years, at which point you better be moving on to the next vehicle. Seriously. They break a lot and the parts are extraordinarily expensive. I used to like Ford, up even into the 80's they made some reasonably good trucks that could take a beating. Being the number 1 is also a little misleading. They outsell Chevy and GMC separately. Chevy and GMC are the same truck, just different lipstick. Combined Chevy and GMC sales are well above Ford last time I looked. Not that any of them make a great half ton these days IMO. My personal experience, combined with all of the tradesmen I worked with was that Ford is a crapshoot, Dodge is expensive to maintain, and Chevy is more epensive up front. Some Fords will roll half a million miles with minimal issues, but most are toxic to own after 50k miles.
This is interesting to me because down under Ford has a pretty good rep across the board as far as I'm aware. The new Ranger is really quite popular here and has been for a while. The one that has a bit of an iffy reputation is the Amarok, partly because parts and maintenance is so damn expensive.

We have a good range of trucks here though, although not too many half tonnes I don't think. Mostly they're Japanese: Mazda BT-50, Hilux, Mitsubishi Triton, Isuzu D-Max and the Nissan Navara. They're all similarly priced.
I'm starting to believe that Ford makes a different product for Europe and Australia. They are much more famous for depreciation and unreliability in N America. It used to be a pretty good truck, reliable if nothing else. My father had a 1981 F-350 that put the odometer around 3 times before the engine gave up the ghost, we had the old one out and a new one in with a new clutch and everything in one afternoon. Less than 5 hours to do a complete swap. And he drove home with the bearings gone from the old one, sounded like machine gun fire going down the road.
It's quite possible. Are cars cheaper in the US? Over here they aren't cheap, so no one would be buying a car they knew was garbage.
I don't think anything is cheap at the moment, but I haven't bought anything in years at this point. My 2010 Chevy 2500 was a long bed extended cab limited options truck (It was for work, not play) and I payed $29k at the dealership for it. The 2011 were on the lot and they made me a deal, it was a fleet order that the customer declined on arrival (They bought the others but not that one for whatever reason). I don't think you get a 2 year old used truck for that right now. I know the prices scales up dramatically when you step up from half ton to 3/4 or 1 ton, the 1/2 ton is a different machine underneath. I did a complete rebuild of a 1966 Chevy C30, new engine, rebuilt 4 speed trans, new everything else including disc brakes upgrade and aluminum bed and had maybe $12k in it all in. It got stolen, unfortunately, so I got an insurance check but I'd rather have my truck back.

FredM
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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#78

Post by FredM » Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:51 pm

Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am
FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.
It's ok to not have an opinion on something. I can tell you've never driven a Lightning, or probably any EV. I've driven them (EVs). A lot. On highways. In cities. On commutes. I never got the chance to drive a Lightning but I put thousands of miles on the Ford Mustang Mach-E. I know multiple people with Lightnings including the Charging Station engineer I worked with. Yes, the base range is not great, but Extended Range pack gets you about 350 miles. Extended Range is actually in the price range of the comparisons. People do this all the time with EVs and lambast companies for trying to offer a lower range model at significant savings.

People buy EVs and try to treat them like ICE vehicles. They're not. Like most people nowadays, the people buying them want spending money to be a moral good. Actually making a sacrifice or learning something new to do something good does not compute. Preferably I'd like a sign in my yard. And if you're going to make me spend more effort than that, I should at least get a luxury car out of it that's more fun to drive than a Porsche and similarly tells everyone how much better I am than them. But I digress.

If you're charging your EV at a station you're doing it wrong. You install an L2 at home, charge it overnight, and use it for your daily commute. If your daily commute is more than 350 miles round trip I don't know what to tell you. Move? In terms of long distance highway drives, you're knocking EVs for something most people do very occasionally. But sure, if you need to tow shit 500 miles regularly, don't buy a Lightning. Or buy one and have your second car be an ICE truck.

I terms of charging cost - again - I don't think you've driven an EV. It's way cheaper. Unless you're doing almost all of your charging at L3 stations (which can get to like 80% the price of gas per mile), you'll notice significant cost savings.

On batteries - not sure where you're getting your info here either. 1 - they last 10+ years. 2 - you don't have to scrap the car, you can replace the battery (in most instances). 3 - many batteries can be repurposed/recycled and future batteries are actually going to be pretty efficient at that.

Not just that, but ICE engines are a disgrace compared to EVs on "long term viability." If you thought about it for six seconds you'd realize why. Internal combustion is super dirty. It's crazy hard on engine parts. It's actually ICE cars you HAVE to scrap and EVs that could theoretically last for-almost-ever.

It's funny because I'm not even "pro EV." They're not actually better for the environment. Theoretically they are. In the future they will be. But if you actually take into account the environmental impact of producing them and the environmental impact of the power plants, it's kind of a wash. Depending on where they were manufactured (and it's grid) and where you're driving them (and that grid) you could honestly be doing much worse for the environment in your EV than if you had stayed in an ICE vehicle. And yes, that's even considering how much more efficient power plants are than gas engines. People like to pretend CO2 is the worst greenhouse gas but Methane is literally 30x worse and natural gas powerplants have a tendency to leak methane into our atmosphere on the regular, whereas ICE vehicles just release C02.

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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#79

Post by xuerebx » Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:59 am

I guess it depends by country, but generally charging costs at home are lower than using charging pillars + you may benefit from lower "off-peak" tariffs + if you have PV panels at home you can charge for much lower than the residential rate (or even for free).

I scrapped my very old ('98 VW Polo classic) last year and bought a PHEV (there was a €12k government grant!!). Financially speaking, I'm better off when comparing 7200km on my PHEV (€172 electricity plus €140 petrol) vs. 6,700km on my diesel Polo (€455). I'm now trying to use much less petrol so the benefit is even cleaer.

To make this training related - I made better calf gains when driving the manual polo vs. automatic transmission of the PHEV :D

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Hardartery
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Re: 2023 Training Goals

#80

Post by Hardartery » Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:05 pm

FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:51 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:33 am
FredM wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 am
MarkKO wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:02 am
EggMcMuffin wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:54 pm I was shitting in my dads 1979 Chebby™ K10 and it's impressive how much worse General Motors has gotten in the following decades. That thing is nice even in it's extremely clapped out state.

Due to planned obscelesence and the glory of the profit motive/need to accumulate surplus value I don't think anyone is interested in making more shit like the 3800 Series 2 or the 4L60E anytime soon. I want an EV if and when I can afford one but I'm really skeptical of the quality of consumer goods past 2008.

My 2000 Mazda Miata is built like a fucking tank as well, so maybe it's just an American thing. My 2000 LeSabre always has little shit going wrong.
I've heard American cars tend to have more issues, but I'm not sure how true it is. I do know that I can't recall coming across a Japanese car just crapping out. French and Italian cars also seem to have reliability issues as far as I'm aware. Especially Peugeot and Alfa Romeo.

I want an EV eventually too, but I want to hold on to my 2016 Forester as long as possible for affordability. What I'm hoping is by the time I need to replace the forester there will be EV trucks because I've promised myself that my next car is a truck as I've wanted one for ages and finally can afford one. I've heard Ford are going to release an electric F150 and I could happily deal with that although ideally there will be an electric Hilux coming along.
There is an electric everything coming. There are electric Ford and Chevy trucks now in N America. There is also a Hummer truck, which is really a Chevy with a badge and different makeup on. The Ford is not well liked so far, the jury is out on the Chevy (I don't know if anyone has taken actual delivery of the Chevy, but the Hummers are out there). They are terrible for road trips, all of them, so I personally have no desire to be eclusively EV but I think a converted classic for local running around would be a lot of fun.
Where you getting that opinion on the Lightning?

Not only is it highly rated by reviewers and drivers online (google it) I led the EV software group at a fleet leasing company and the lightnings were by far the most requested EV.

EV range anxiety is mostly a manufactured problem. 90% of the people complaining about range have never actually driven an EV and are driving an ICE vehicle with worse range than the leading EVs.

Teslas battery innovation is probably 5 years ahead of what people realize. They’re still complaining because manufacturers like Toyota are 10 years behind and releasing vehicles with crap range.
I am referencing people on Youtube that bought one, and then got rid of it because the range sucks. I seem to have touched a nerve there, I wasn't trying to, I am not anti-EV, you'll notice I am interested in converting a classic truck to EV at some point - but I wouldn't touch anything Ford. They have been making nothing but crap for close to 30 years now and this new truck is no exception. The Tesla truck is stupid looking and impractical as a truck, but the battery and drivetrain setup might be pretty good to use in something that looks less stupid. The Chevy offering is so far drawing better reviews than the Ford from what I have seen but I think the truly useful versions are yet to be seen from any of these manufacturers and the recharging is a huge negative for any kind of road trip. I can stop twice as often and still lose less time in a conventional gas or diesel vehicle, and frankly it is not true that the electrics are now achieving better range. Electrics get their worst mileage on the highway, the polar opposite of gas or diesel machines, and most of my driving when I am in N America is long distance highway.
I don't think that EV's save much if anything calculating charge costs versus fuel, and the problem of fuel cell end of life for EV's is a serious one that is so far not addressed. I'm sure it will be, there will be a robust secondary market for that at some point because it's just not feasible to be scrapping cars that are that expensive after a lifespan that short because of batteries. And just to restate, Ford makes crap and the new electric truck from them is hype and garbage. Unfortunately. It is impractical as a truck, using it for truck purposes. Or in the cold. Or driving against the wind. Or driving at highway speeds. You know, that excessive stuff that no truck manufacturer could reasonably expect you to do.
It's ok to not have an opinion on something. I can tell you've never driven a Lightning, or probably any EV. I've driven them (EVs). A lot. On highways. In cities. On commutes. I never got the chance to drive a Lightning but I put thousands of miles on the Ford Mustang Mach-E. I know multiple people with Lightnings including the Charging Station engineer I worked with. Yes, the base range is not great, but Extended Range pack gets you about 350 miles. Extended Range is actually in the price range of the comparisons. People do this all the time with EVs and lambast companies for trying to offer a lower range model at significant savings.

People buy EVs and try to treat them like ICE vehicles. They're not. Like most people nowadays, the people buying them want spending money to be a moral good. Actually making a sacrifice or learning something new to do something good does not compute. Preferably I'd like a sign in my yard. And if you're going to make me spend more effort than that, I should at least get a luxury car out of it that's more fun to drive than a Porsche and similarly tells everyone how much better I am than them. But I digress.

If you're charging your EV at a station you're doing it wrong. You install an L2 at home, charge it overnight, and use it for your daily commute. If your daily commute is more than 350 miles round trip I don't know what to tell you. Move? In terms of long distance highway drives, you're knocking EVs for something most people do very occasionally. But sure, if you need to tow shit 500 miles regularly, don't buy a Lightning. Or buy one and have your second car be an ICE truck.

I terms of charging cost - again - I don't think you've driven an EV. It's way cheaper. Unless you're doing almost all of your charging at L3 stations (which can get to like 80% the price of gas per mile), you'll notice significant cost savings.

On batteries - not sure where you're getting your info here either. 1 - they last 10+ years. 2 - you don't have to scrap the car, you can replace the battery (in most instances). 3 - many batteries can be repurposed/recycled and future batteries are actually going to be pretty efficient at that.

Not just that, but ICE engines are a disgrace compared to EVs on "long term viability." If you thought about it for six seconds you'd realize why. Internal combustion is super dirty. It's crazy hard on engine parts. It's actually ICE cars you HAVE to scrap and EVs that could theoretically last for-almost-ever.

It's funny because I'm not even "pro EV." They're not actually better for the environment. Theoretically they are. In the future they will be. But if you actually take into account the environmental impact of producing them and the environmental impact of the power plants, it's kind of a wash. Depending on where they were manufactured (and it's grid) and where you're driving them (and that grid) you could honestly be doing much worse for the environment in your EV than if you had stayed in an ICE vehicle. And yes, that's even considering how much more efficient power plants are than gas engines. People like to pretend CO2 is the worst greenhouse gas but Methane is literally 30x worse and natural gas powerplants have a tendency to leak methane into our atmosphere on the regular, whereas ICE vehicles just release C02.
You an I are actually mostly on the same page with EV's. My interest lies purely in the raw torque of an electric motor and how much fun they are to drive. I do NOT have a commute, and would not buy a truck of any kind for one if I did. That's what cars are for. Trucks are for hauling stuff, period. My tool, trash, a boat, a trailer, that's why I buy trucks. So if doing any of those basic functions of a truck makes the "Truck" impractical in electric form it's pointless as a vehicle.
The long term problem with EV's is the batteries. What do you do with the old ones? Right now replacing that battery renders most EV's valueless, it is worth the same or less than the new battery + labour when the battery goes bad. That leaves you with an entire car to deal with that has no intrinsic value, because people will just go and buy a new one inatead of paying a sizeable amount of money to keep driving an old one. That's how cars tend to work, that's how people operate. I believe a Tesla replacement battery for the early model (The ones whose batteries are just now coming towards EOL) run around 20k USD to replace. The car doesn't justify the investment, and it's easier to get a new car payment than trying to finance that battery or pay cash. So people will just get a new car. And there are a lot of other parts on an EV that wear out, including the electric motors. Electric motors do actually wear out, but there are a million other things that will absolutely not last indefinitely on that EV.
Technically, you can just convert the ICE to something other than gas, like propane or methanol, and put out less pollution. The EV's a much bigger thrill to drive though, which I get. The current big push might get them past some of those obstacles with new tech, which would be great. I'm leaving out the fact that not all houses are capable of having an EV plugged in to them, many simply lack the service capacity and would require electrical work to fix that, which also isn't cheap. I can rebuild an ICE a lot cheaper than buying a battery, or replace it.
I don't have a problem with EV's, I actually like the idea because I enjoy speed and power in a vehicle. I do have a problem with Ford and the poorly executed trash they sell. Their stuff falls apart, no matter how much fun it is new or how nice it seems initially. It's not a long term item anymore, it's a disposable one and they like to do gimmicky stuff that turns out to not live up to the hype or fail in surprising ways. Sometimes quite spectacularly. Look up the ignotion issues of the Crown Vic throught the 90's and early 2000's. There used to be a site called FlamingFords.com, don't know if it's still up. Great car to have if you want your house to burn down starting with the garage.

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