Exodus Strength

This is classic news (i.e. stuff that's been known for years, presented as if it's completely new), but it's a good reminder given how popular meat substitutes are becoming.

https://web.archive.org/web/20221211080 ... flags.html

One of the key quotes is:

The researchers stress that 10 to 32% of Swedish women in fertile age have iron deficiencies and almost one-third of secondary school teenage girls.
Additionally, women are more likely to switch to a plant-based diet and usually consume less red meat than men, putting them more at risk for iron deficiency.

They don't present any longitudinal data though, and iron deficiency in that age/sex group is fairly common afaik.

I thought it was well accepted that animal protein sources tend to be superior to vegetal protein sources, so this is hardly surprising.

Now I understand that some people do not want to eat animals for political or religious or environmental reasons, but if you're purely concerned with nutrition, being a vegetarian or a vegan is probably not the optimal choice.

CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:17 am I thought it was well accepted that animal protein sources tend to be superior to vegetal protein sources, so this is hardly surprising.

Now I understand that some people do not want to eat animals for political or religious or environmental reasons, but if you're purely concerned with nutrition, being a vegetarian or a vegan is probably not the optimal choice.

Agree. Posted b/c I've seen (people not here) claim the new processed stuff is more absorbable than "real meat" so thought having a citation on hand would be good.

I'm actually really interested in cultivated meat and its future. It's not really meat "substitute", but meat from an animal "substitute". I think it could solve a lot of ethical and environmental issues with animal farming. It's basically meat grown in vats using animal cell lines that are fed nutrients. The bio-availability of the protein should be the same as regular meat, and would likely be a perfectly acceptable alternative in most cases to regular meat. It probably won't have the terroir and marbling of a high quality steak, but then for those nice occasions, you get a nice cut from a butcher of an actual animal that was raised on a small scale farm.

https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/

omaniphil wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:48 am I'm actually really interested in cultivated meat and its future. It's not really meat "substitute", but meat from an animal "substitute". I think it could solve a lot of ethical and environmental issues with animal farming. It's basically meat grown in vats using animal cell lines that are fed nutrients. The bio-availability of the protein should be the same as regular meat, and would likely be a perfectly acceptable alternative in most cases to regular meat. It probably won't have the terroir and marbling of a high quality steak, but then for those nice occasions, you get a nice cut from a butcher of an actual animal that was raised on a small scale farm.

https://gfi.org/science/the-science-of-cultivated-meat/

This makes me feel like a luddite, but I have no interest in it. Yes, I know industrial meat production is a horrible shitshow. Environmental side effects, ethics, everything. I'm sure eventually it'll be exactly what you say. Meat from animals for special occasions, the rest some vat grown substrate stuff. Just not for me. Something about it puts me off almost more than the fake meat stuff. Let me finish up my venison backstrap and avocado toast on low carb bread breakfast sandwich and show myself out like the dinosaur it makes me.

If I had to put my finger on it, I think it's that I'm 100% convinced it'll be messed with in some way to be different. They (scientists/bi-engineers/policy people) won't be able to resist trying to make "red meat, but with some changed chemical makeup so eating it improves people/is better for them than "real meat"".

People are wary of GMO crops, and want their meat with no antibiotics* or steeeerroids. Yet they are going to accept meat grown in test tubes?

*I actually think it's criminal the way antibiotics are used so nonchalantly in the raising of meat animals. It is a big contributor to antibiotic resistance.

Culican wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:19 am People are wary of GMO crops, and want their meat with no antibiotics or steeeerroids. Yet they are going to accept meat grown in test tubes?

I think they will, in that some people will see it as more eco friendly, but mostly because at some point a bio-reactor is going to be cheaper. Same with GMO crops. People who can afford to care do, but when ground cow is 5/lbs and ground bio-reactor "beef" is 3/lbs... It'll sell.

Could be wrong on this, but given the future of beef prices (high, and going higher on a 10+ year time scale) this seems fairly sure to me.

Most Americans already eat tons of highly-processed chemically-enhanced artificial manufactured crap. The majority won't bat an eye at lab-grown meat. Especially if it brings down the price of their fast-food burgers.

I'd eat the bio meat with no problems, if it gets to be the cheaper alternative. Already the prices on regular beef here is through the roof. And if you want grass fed? Forget it.

slowmotion wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:38 am I'd eat the bio meat with no problems, if it gets to be the cheaper alternative. Already the prices on regular beef here is through the roof. And if you want grass fed? Forget it.

There's venison wandering around out for 20 dollars in license fees here

5hout wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:33 am I think they will, in that some people will see it as more eco friendly, but mostly because at some point a bio-reactor is going to be cheaper. Same with GMO crops. People who can afford to care do, but when ground cow is 5/lbs and ground bio-reactor "beef" is 3/lbs... It'll sell.

Could be wrong on this, but given the future of beef prices (high, and going higher on a 10+ year time scale) this seems fairly sure to me.

I still feel that the increases in meat price are somehow being influenced by big money that's already invested in "alternatives". There's no way they threw in with that stuff without also having plans to ensure real meat can't compete. Anyway, as with all "new" things like this, I wouldn't want any part of it until it's proved itself safe and worthy after a couple of years.

Don't the ranching and meat processing and packing industries count as big money?

Everything has gotten more expensive, pretty much.

dw wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:34 am Don't the ranching and meat processing and packing industries count as big money?

Everything has gotten more expensive, pretty much.

Not as big or concentrated (or as CONNECTED, possibly even more important than the money) as some of the guys investing into meat alternatives. People like that (usually) don't invest into new things without a plan that ensures success against the established competitor. That's not going to rely on people worried about the environment or animal cruelty, and it's sure not gonna rely on meat alternatives being tastier.

Would those new meat substitutes be cheaper than say whey protein ?

Because in terms of digestibility and protein quality nothing beats whey protein I believe.

You could pretty much survive on 5 protein shakes a day and be fine (not that I would like to do that but if given the choice between fake meat or insects or whey protein I'd choose whey protein any time).

I probably wouldn't mind trying minced insect meat either, when I think about it. It doesn't sound like it would taste very good, but with added veggies and spices who knows? Insect burger anyone?

CaptainAwesome wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:30 am I still feel that the increases in meat price are somehow being influenced by big money that's already invested in "alternatives". There's no way they threw in with that stuff without also having plans to ensure real meat can't compete.

CaptainAwesome wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:56 am People like that (usually) don't invest into new things without a plan that ensures success against the established competitor.

Thats... not how venture capitalism works.

For one, why would increases in meat prices be affected by people investing in alternatives that haven't even hit the market yet? That makes no sense. Also, investors very rarely have plans to ensure success against competitors. They have plans, but they almost never work. The general rule is that of every 10 venture backed investments, 3-4 fail completely, 3-4 barely return their investment, and just a few will have any measure of success.

omaniphil wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:32 am Thats... not how venture capitalism works.

For one, why would increases in meat prices be affected by people investing in alternatives that haven't even hit the market yet? That makes no sense. Also, investors very rarely have plans to ensure success against competitors. They have plans, but they almost never work. The general rule is that of every 10 venture backed investments, 3-4 fail completely, 3-4 barely return their investment, and just a few will have any measure of success.

The meat prices aren't directly affected by the fact the investments are made.

5hout wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:27 am

slowmotion wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:38 am I'd eat the bio meat with no problems, if it gets to be the cheaper alternative. Already the prices on regular beef here is through the roof. And if you want grass fed? Forget it.

There's venison wandering around out for 20 dollars in license fees here

Used to love eating venison, but now...nah.

https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/index.html

Brackish wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:05 am

5hout wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:27 am

slowmotion wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:38 am I'd eat the bio meat with no problems, if it gets to be the cheaper alternative. Already the prices on regular beef here is through the roof. And if you want grass fed? Forget it.

There's venison wandering around out for 20 dollars in license fees here

Used to love eating venison, but now...nah.

https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/index.html

I get all my venison tested, my processor encourages everyone else to as well and you can request your deer is processed apart.
https://vdl.msu.edu/Bin/CWD.exe

My personal risk tolerance is that if I'm going to keep eating Beef, then eating tested venison is a no brainer (tehe).

5hout wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:57 am

Brackish wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:05 am

5hout wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:27 am

slowmotion wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:38 am I'd eat the bio meat with no problems, if it gets to be the cheaper alternative. Already the prices on regular beef here is through the roof. And if you want grass fed? Forget it.

There's venison wandering around out for 20 dollars in license fees here

Used to love eating venison, but now...nah.

https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/index.html

I get all my venison tested, my processor encourages everyone else to as well and you can request your deer is processed apart.
https://vdl.msu.edu/Bin/CWD.exe

My personal risk tolerance is that if I'm going to keep eating Beef, then eating tested venison is a no brainer (tehe).

Interesting! I'll have to see if a service like that is offered here. I'm not aware of anything like that, but it may just not be widely publicized.