quick lil' vid on OHP technique

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mbasic
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quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#1

Post by mbasic » Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:56 pm

JFC, how in the world could you over complicate the simplest goddamn barbell movement ?




Its funny, because rip will accuse WL coaches XFit Level1's of overcomplicating the clean, snatch, or jerk....because its a way to get the lifter/customer "hooked" into your program or gym .... squeeze money out of the lifter.... OR, the overcomplication gives a higher level of authority/status/mystique to the coach.

Yet, SS publish this fucking mess for their Bent-Press. Just for the fucking love of god just strict press the goddamn bar straight up from a static rigid trunk, "keep it close to your face" is really the only cue you should need.

Sure, noobs can't do a lot of weight, do 5 fucking sets instead of 3. Works wonders. You'll get big ole' shoulders. Do some fucken DB lat raises man

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#2

Post by Hardartery » Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:09 pm

mbasic wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:56 pm JFC, how in the world could you over complicate the simplest goddamn barbell movement ?




Its funny, because rip will accuse WL coaches XFit Level1's of overcomplicating the clean, snatch, or jerk....because its a way to get the lifter/customer "hooked" into your program or gym .... squeeze money out of the lifter.... OR, the overcomplication gives a higher level of authority/status/mystique to the coach.

Yet, SS publish this fucking mess for their Bent-Press. Just for the fucking love of god just strict press the goddamn bar straight up from a static rigid trunk, "keep it close to your face" is really the only cue you should need.

Sure, noobs can't do a lot of weight, do 5 fucking sets instead of 3. Works wonders. You'll get big ole' shoulders. Do some fucken DB lat raises man
That's the stupidest video about pressing I've ever seen. If that was being coached live in a gym in front of me I'm not sure I would be able to stop laughing long enough to ridicule him.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#3

Post by mgil » Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:45 pm

The best video on press 2.0 was the first one with Tommy Suggs. But they keep making new videos for the same shit because they…

1. Only have a few lifts in their programmatic repertoire

2. They have to have the new SSCs make *something*

3. Overcomplicate stupid shit

4. People wonder where all of the old SSCs in the old videos went

5. Aren’t smart enough to talk about actual nutrition or programming

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#4

Post by DCR » Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:17 pm

Waaaaaaait.

They don’t, even with this ridiculous movement, press off their chests? Am I the only ignoramus who didn’t realize that?

I guess my 180 lb lifetime PR could’ve been 200 or so. At least.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#5

Post by mgil » Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:43 am

No. The technique is a floating rack.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#6

Post by mbasic » Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:23 am

The phrase "Paralysis by analysis" comes mind ....

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#7

Post by 5hout » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:50 am

DCR wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:17 pm Waaaaaaait.

They don’t, even with this ridiculous movement, press off their chests? Am I the only ignoramus who didn’t realize that?

I guess my 180 lb lifetime PR could’ve been 200 or so. At least.
When I realized this, it was the crucial moment that destroyed any remaining faith I had. It's like they decided a competition squat should be you start 4 inches above parallel, drop into the hole, get the bounce out and stand up. It's wildly easier with a massive stretch reflex. If you watch some of the press livestreams of competitions you'll see "racks" that start around the nose and get a huge bounce be called an OHP.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#8

Post by atsm » Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:58 pm

mgil wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:45 pm The best video on press 2.0 was the first one with Tommy Suggs. But they keep making new videos for the same shit because they…

1. Only have a few lifts in their programmatic repertoire

2. They have to have the new SSCs make *something*

3. Overcomplicate stupid shit

4. People wonder where all of the old SSCs in the old videos went

5. Aren’t smart enough to talk about actual nutrition or programming
Tommy Sugg's video was on the press 3.0, i.e. the olympic press. Not the press 2.0.

What OP does not realize is that the press 3.0, i.e. the olympic press has huge benefits compared to a strict press. These being:

1.) Expression of skill (fun and challenging)
2.) Potentially fora lot more weight
3.) Makes you a lot stronger.

The olympic press is a dynamic, and very challenging movement. I agree that most people should not learn it in the beginning, and it can't really even be taught. The layback is something that is learned over time by the lifter. Saying something like "Bent-Press" just shows a lack of understanding of the movement. Rippetoe did not invent the olympic press and it's named so for a reason:




I thoroughly enjoy the olympic press and it is the only olympic movement that can be performed without bumpers. It's made my strict press a lot stronger too.

Now the press 2.0, is not the olympic press -- it only includes the first layback. This is more easily taught than the 2nd layback, but still difficult. I don't think this is such a great thing to teach to novices, because none of them can do it. Virtually no one doing their first SSNLP can do a correct press 2.0.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#9

Post by mbasic » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:12 am

atsm wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:58 pm I thoroughly enjoy the olympic press and it is the only olympic movement that can be performed without bumpers.
Try again. Nope, press 3.0 from a gay-ass steel rack was never an "Olympic Movement".

.... you had to clean it from the floor 1st.
So getting all wrapped up tight with your belt, wrist wraps, elbows sleeves. ..... and then taking it from the rack, with your special narrow-ass 'bulldog grip', and floating the bar around you mouth-level ..... that all didn't happen. Your front rack starting position is going to look different after you clean it first ...power clean or full clean, depending how much weight you are pressing, and how adept you are at power-cleaning vs cleaning...all that will make the press part look very from a little bit different, to wildly different, from a press taken from a rack/cage/stand.

Although they used steel/iron plates for a long time for a long time in meets (press, snatch, clean & jerk), bumpers would be/were just nice to too for the press, for a lot of the same reasons....if you miss part of the lift, you can just safely drop it with out much of a ruckus, or potential damage to the equipment or floor. After a successful maximal attempt, you can intentionally drop it / fast-control-lower it to the floor also.
It's made my strict press a lot stronger too.
This is common reasons/excuse/apology for doing 2.0 or 3.0...
Most of the SSNLP and intermediate programming coming from Rip/SS is inherently flawed from the get go from an upper body point of view in general. So the strict press, is going to move at a snails pace, moreso than people's slow moving bench .... and probably isn't going respond to the limited stimulus given.

I doubt you, Rip and etal haven't explored a long term upper body focused program (with a large sample set of novice lifters) using more volume, and/or lighter weights/loads to make the higher volume happen, to where things like strict press, biceps, pullups, deltz (from things like lateral raises) etc. would really take off well .....and such a program that also had the strict press as a key component. That last part, its rare that ANYONE, such BBers, gym rats, gymbros, etc would care about strict OHP as KPI in thier program ....except maybe Xfit.** Even olympic lifters rarely care about their strict OHP, or train it to a sink-or-swim degree.
atsm wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:58 pm 1.) Expression of skill (fun and challenging)
2.) Potentially fora lot more weight
3.) Makes you a lot stronger.
So ... all that said.

#1 ... Is laughable. Amount of skill is low, compared to clean or snatch. Rip laments at people constantly pussing-out of their power cleans, and/or insulting coaching because they can't teach it. Want skill and challenging, clean the fucking weight first then.

#2- Yep, So does hitching deadlifts. letting your butt of the bench in the bench press. Push pressing the OHP.

#3- Is debatable/and context. You are only only expressing more weight in the bent-press (a max), by doing the bent press in practice (reps, workouts, etc). I don't know if you are actually adding that much upper body contractile muscle mass by doing that herky-jerky press MOVEMENT, or any more than a regimen of strict presses.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#10

Post by Hardartery » Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:22 am

atsm wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:58 pm
Tommy Sugg's video was on the press 3.0, i.e. the olympic press. Not the press 2.0.

What OP does not realize is that the press 3.0, i.e. the olympic press has huge benefits compared to a strict press. These being:

1.) Expression of skill (fun and challenging)
2.) Potentially fora lot more weight
3.) Makes you a lot stronger.

The olympic press is a dynamic, and very challenging movement. I agree that most people should not learn it in the beginning, and it can't really even be taught. The layback is something that is learned over time by the lifter. Saying something like "Bent-Press" just shows a lack of understanding of the movement. Rippetoe did not invent the olympic press and it's named so for a reason:




I thoroughly enjoy the olympic press and it is the only olympic movement that can be performed without bumpers. It's made my strict press a lot stronger too.

Now the press 2.0, is not the olympic press -- it only includes the first layback. This is more easily taught than the 2nd layback, but still difficult. I don't think this is such a great thing to teach to novices, because none of them can do it. Virtually no one doing their first SSNLP can do a correct press 2.0.
I have to back up everything @mbasic said, 100%.
And, I am going to add to it that a floating press by intent is stupid and counterproductive. Energy transfer from that body drive is going to transmit better from the shoulders than by letting the floating rack absorb anything. A floating Rack is also a great way to develop tendonitis if you don't already have it. There is certainly a place for doing press work out of the rack, it allows for greater overload and thus stimulus to the actual pressing muscles without the fatigue of cleaning the weight first, and you are certainly going to have a different grip out of the rack than from a clean of any variety.
People are misled by seeing very large guys with phenomonal presses (Derek Pundstone for example) appeat to use a floating rack. There is a huge difference between your mechanical bottom for the rack to be at chin level and intentionally trying to hold the bar there. The bar should be "Resting" in the rack position, not being held up in the air. And the Bent Press has nothing in common with any of these movements - it is done with one arm for starters and there is no rack of any kind.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#11

Post by atsm » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:25 am

mbasic wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:12 am
#1 ... Is laughable. Amount of skill is low, compared to clean or snatch. Rip laments at people constantly pussing-out of their power cleans, and/or insulting coaching because they can't teach it. Want skill and challenging, clean the fucking weight first then.

#2- Yep, So does hitching deadlifts. letting your butt of the bench in the bench press. Push pressing the OHP.
#1 You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. The Olympic press is a more difficult movement than the clean and has taking me a lot longer to get right. I was never an amazing Olympic lifter, but I've cleaned 170kg. Saying to add the clean to make the lift challenging is meme-tier because the clean is trivial at the weights most people press. Even prior to 1972, in the Olympics how many guys would fail the clean of a clean and press?

#2 again you have no idea what you're talking about. The Olympic press is not a push press and knees are no lt allowed to bend. Whether many lifters got away with it is a different matter.

Floating rack vs shoulders barely matters. I've done it both ways.

Both of you just don't know what you're talking about -- and if the movement is so easy let's get a video of you doing a single with bodyweight. I think it'll be a few years of practice, first.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#12

Post by Hardartery » Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:52 am

atsm wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:25 am
mbasic wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:12 am
#1 ... Is laughable. Amount of skill is low, compared to clean or snatch. Rip laments at people constantly pussing-out of their power cleans, and/or insulting coaching because they can't teach it. Want skill and challenging, clean the fucking weight first then.

#2- Yep, So does hitching deadlifts. letting your butt of the bench in the bench press. Push pressing the OHP.
#1 You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. The Olympic press is a more difficult movement than the clean and has taking me a lot longer to get right. I was never an amazing Olympic lifter, but I've cleaned 170kg. Saying to add the clean to make the lift challenging is meme-tier because the clean is trivial at the weights most people press. Even prior to 1972, in the Olympics how many guys would fail the clean of a clean and press?

#2 again you have no idea what you're talking about. The Olympic press is not a push press and knees are no lt allowed to bend. Whether many lifters got away with it is a different matter.

Floating rack vs shoulders barely matters. I've done it both ways.

Both of you just don't know what you're talking about -- and if the movement is so easy let's get a video of you doing a single with bodyweight. I think it'll be a few years of practice, first.
LOL. You clearly have done none of those things, you are the one that needs to produce video. We post video all of the time of lifts. I have pressed every implement and bar out there, both in Strongman competitions and in the gym, and experience tells me that you are at best delusional. And I am have been witness many, many, many times to guys failing a lift or losing an event because they could not clean the weight and that weight being something that they quite easily press when taken out of the rack instead. There are a lot of incredibly strong pressers with no ability in the Clean. To suggest the Press (And it was simply called the Press, any use of the title Olympic in referencie to weightlifting is technically a misnomer) is in any way as technical as a Clean is laughable. Did you just join here to troll? I'm finding it hard to believe anyone could be restarded enough to actually believe anything that you said, or try to be authoratative while demonstrating such an utter lack of knowledge.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#13

Post by atsm » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:45 am

I have this video of a 160kg clean and front squats:

https://streamable.com/ozke4o

Here's some presses yesterday (99x3, bw 96)

https://streamable.com/cz9unn

I don't think you understand the double layback or clean, otherwise you wouldn't be writing the things that you are. I don't follow strongman, but I've never seen one of those guys do a double layback so I don't see the relevance. I think they're allowed to push press anyway.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#14

Post by CaptainAwesome » Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:48 am

I'll have to disagree in that I think novices CAN pull off that hip bounce of the "2.0" type movement. It didn't take me much time to get it. The "3.0" is another story. I think I started to kinda do it once during a really slow grinder. I also think the strict press is a better general strength builder though, even if you can't throw up the same sort of weight with it. With the bounce out of the bottom it feels like a lot of the initial tension on the shoulders the strict press gives you just isn't there.

I don't think it's really necessary for novices to do the "2.0" like starting strength emphasizes, but I suspect that is another thing that's just there because Rippetoe really loves the old school 3-lift era of olympic lifting, and he came up in that time and believes there is a special value in these things that a lot of contemporary training has abandoned. Probably the same reason the power clean is there too. Plenty of novices have no need to ever learn the power clean or snatch for what they want out of the gym. I'd even argue that if you want to build "explosiveness" for another physical activity like many claim it's good for, you should focus more on just building it movement-specifically. I don't think a power clean is going to make you a more explosive puncher, for example. Practicing your punches is what will really do that. I think they fall into the "practice" portion of Rippetoe's 2 factor model, even if he seems to think they are good for the "training" part.

Not sure what the issue with the "floating" position is. Some people just have to have it like that. Anthropometry is a thing, even if my web browser is telling me it's not a word.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#15

Post by mbasic » Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:52 am

atsm wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:25 am -- and if the movement is so easy let's get a video of you doing a single with bodyweight. I think it'll be a few years of practice, first.
I ain't doing:
-the kip press,
-kipping pullups,
-wide-ass sumo DL with a DL bar,
-benching with my ass in the air and/or a huge arch,
-lowbar squatting bent over like GM, belts, wraps, sleeves, mouthpiece, etc ....
.... because that would all be dumb in my mind.
But down below is a STRICT press single 10# over body weight. (230#, I bet if gun held to head I could muster 240 in a couple of weeks).
I don't have to do a bent-press to come up with a body weight press.
atsm wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:45 am I have this video of a 160kg clean and front squats:

https://streamable.com/ozke4o

Here's some presses yesterday (99x3, bw 96)

https://streamable.com/cz9unn

I don't think you understand the double layback or clean, otherwise you wouldn't be writing the things that you are. I don't follow strongman, but I've never seen one of those guys do a double layback so I don't see the relevance. I think they're allowed to push press anyway.
And 99 from the rack ain't an olympic press mi gui.

right, if you can clean 170 (say max clean)
..... perhaps CJ 160-170
....you should be "olympic pressing" (clean and press) around 140-150ish kg (330#) ....if going by what those WL'ers of the 1970's were doing.
99x3 from the rack kinda sucks.
If you press is utter dog shit, than sure, the clean should be easy.
If that 1970 World video, a couple of lifters have a little difficulty with the clean .... most are not powering it, and having to do a full clean.
In your case, you would easily power clean 100 or 105, and then do your bent-press.

I'm 51, 220#, fat, I can STRICT press 230#x1 after an easily elbows-down power clean (to enable the strict press)
I can't even deadlift 475, can't squat 405 (max is 365 lolz), and haven't ever benched 315x1.



edit: mgil

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#16

Post by mbasic » Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:04 am

atsm wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:25 am #2 again you have no idea what you're talking about. The Olympic press is not a push press and knees are no lt allowed to bend. Whether many lifters got away with it is a different matter.
yes, that is just one many reasons it got shit canned.

Image

First press in the video you linked, he's getting serious momentum by using his knees.
Floating rack vs shoulders barely matters. I've done it both ways.
you aren't doing much weight, thats why

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#17

Post by BostonRugger » Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:45 am

An OHP thread got contentious?

Image


ETA: I think everyone except 350lb Belgian men would be better off viewing press as an assistance lift and limiting their time spent thinking about it.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#18

Post by mgil » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:14 pm

@mbasic, the best part is the bar catch a’la @SeanHerbison.

Anyhow, most of this doesn’t matter, and if you want big beefy shoulders, do Arnold presses.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#19

Post by dw » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:21 pm

DB lateral raises FTW.

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Re: quick lil' vid on OHP technique

#20

Post by CaptainAwesome » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:36 pm

mgil wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:14 pm Anyhow, most of this doesn’t matter, and if you want big beefy shoulders, do Arnold presses.
Arnold presses are THE SHIT. I've been doing regular seated DB presses in my workouts the last 8 weeks and I can say without a doubt I vastly prefer arnold presses. I can also say without a doubt I really don't like pressing seated with any kind of back support, rather just sit down on a flat bench.
dw wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:21 pm DB lateral raises FTW.
I actually prefer the cable version. I end up having to do it one arm at a time, but man you are fighting resistance right from the start, instead of it ramping up through the range of motion into something challenging. Tough to progress, though, since the weights you end up using have to be pretty light.

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