dw wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 9:03 pm
Was there ever any health related argument in favor of organic meats?
For produce there's the matter herbicides and insecticides but I figured for meats it was all just about animal cruelty.
I don't remember exactly when I jumped on the organic meat train, or even the impetus for the conversion, but I do recall the little sticker graphics at the Whole Foods butcher's counter illustrating the circle of life and such.
If the cow's eating good, healthy grass, then the meat's going to benefit from the lack of artificial contaminants. And if the cow lives a relatively stress-free life in an invisible cage, then something something about the meat quality.
Good eatin' all around, or so they say.
Seems logical to me, even if the steward-of-the-earth ideal some of these large-scale processors are peddling seems a little heavy-handed (and dubious).
There's a difference between organic and grassfed.
Most of the health aspects from grass fed meat come from grass ...
"Organic" could still mean: eating mostly grain, and garbage, and no grass or green matter whatsoever.
I myself wouldn't mind A LITTLE BIT pesticides and/or SOME inorganic fertilizer use to grow GRASS and/or maintain pastures that a cow feeds on .... a cow that wouldn't be able to get the official 'Organic' label, but was completely grass fed. In fact, this is what "they" should be doing.
Would I prefer grassfed AND organic? Sure.
Likewise with chickens and eggs. They could be 'organic', but just fed organic certified commercially produced grain-mush, kept in boxes (instead of cages), and never see the light of day or eat a single bug.
So "organic" -- in the most generous sense -- is supposed to mean that the feed/grain/whatever they're feeding the animal is free of pesticides or "synthetic" growth boosters?
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:58 am
by lheugh
Subsequent to legislation, not only must "organic" foods be grown without the use of chemical pesticides, herbicides, or fertilizers and have verifiable records of their system of production, but 95% of their agricultural ingredients must also be organically-produced.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:23 am
by Brackish
On the topic of organic meats - Contrary to popular beliefs, "organic" animals are less healthy and less comfortable than their non-organic peers. Example - cows commonly get bacterial infections of their hooves (don't know the exact name of the disease). It can be extremely painful as it progresses. A simple does of antibiotics will sort it out, but animals that are going to be sold as "organic" can't receive said antibiotics and still be sold at a premium. So, they are often not treated and live in pain until they have to be either culled or are slaughtered. The cruelty free stuff makes more sense to me, but I'm not on board with withholding medical care from animals.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:03 am
by mbasic
Brackish wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:23 am
On the topic of organic meats - Contrary to popular beliefs, "organic" animals are less healthy and less comfortable than their non-organic peers. Example - cows commonly get bacterial infections of their hooves (don't know the exact name of the disease). It can be extremely painful as it progresses. A simple does of antibiotics will sort it out, but animals that are going to be sold as "organic" can't receive said antibiotics and still be sold at a premium. So, they are often not treated and live in pain until they have to be either culled or are slaughtered. The cruelty free stuff makes more sense to me, but I'm not on board with withholding medical care from animals.
Good example of what I was talking about^.
But I don't think its always that way (the bolded statement above doesn't hold true for all situations).
Non-organic globo-corporate cattle with suffer in other ways.
Another: you could be eating a non-organic or organic grain fed cow .... a cows' digestive tract isn't really made/evolved to eat a shit ton of grain, corn, corn stalks, starches woody material, etc. They are slowly rotting from the inside out from acidosis.
If they didn't harvest the cows, they would eventually die from eating the corn/grains.
In the video, I'm sure this is a non organic product; but same thing applies to an organic grain fed cow.
(start at 46:33 if the timestamp doesn't work) /!\ CAUTION /!\
Video of a hole in a live cow.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:28 am
by mbasic
Renascent wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:16 pm
So "organic" -- in the most generous sense -- is supposed to mean that the feed/grain/whatever they're feeding the animal is free of pesticides or "synthetic" growth boosters?
Yes. At least, that's what I understand. previously understood. So maybe I got this wrong.
Googling it as i respond here, the USDA has a more cheerful definition now (I believe it used to NOT be this way).
As for organic meat, regulations require that animals are raised in living conditions accommodating their natural behaviors (like the ability to graze on pasture), fed 100% organic feed and forage, and not administered antibiotics or hormones.
So the first part of that statement sounds rosey, but looking how chickens are classed .... I don't trust what "raised in living conditions accommodating their natural behaviors" could mean ny the FDA.
Chickens could meet "free range" criteria legally, but still have a super dense animal-unit-per-square-foot (but outside).... and only be outside a fraction of the day to meet the standard .... and fed exclusively grain for instance.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:18 am
by Allentown
Going from secondhand memory, but the amount of hormones non-"organic" cows are given is apparently a small fraction of the amount a human's hormone profile changes during pregnancy.
Or something to that effect. My wife usually just laughs about "organic" beef.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:54 am
by 5hout
Here's a somewhat dated link discussing some of the issues with "organic" labeling. Of course, the person is biased, but since they actually had an organic cert (vs me, who once read some rules for one) I'm providing it as interesting content.
Brackish wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:23 am
On the topic of organic meats - Contrary to popular beliefs, "organic" animals are less healthy and less comfortable than their non-organic peers. Example - cows commonly get bacterial infections of their hooves (don't know the exact name of the disease). It can be extremely painful as it progresses. A simple does of antibiotics will sort it out, but animals that are going to be sold as "organic" can't receive said antibiotics and still be sold at a premium. So, they are often not treated and live in pain until they have to be either culled or are slaughtered. The cruelty free stuff makes more sense to me, but I'm not on board with withholding medical care from animals.
Another: you could be eating a non-organic or organic grain fed cow .... a cows' digestive tract isn't really made/evolved to eat a shit ton of grain, corn, corn stalks, starches woody material, etc. They are slowly rotting from the inside out from acidosis.
If they didn't harvest the cows, they would eventually die from eating the corn/grains.
Interesting.
Never heard of acidosis before. I need up my documentary game.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:40 am
by Culican
"Organic" is no guarantee that the food won't make you sick.
Allentown wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:18 am
Going from secondhand memory, but the amount of hormones non-"organic" cows are given is apparently a small fraction of the amount a human's hormone profile changes during pregnancy.
Or something to that effect. My wife usually just laughs about "organic" beef.
Based on these papers, if a prepubescent girl was to eat 453.6
g (1 lb) of meat a day and that meat was obtained from cattle
implanted at 10 times the manufacturer’s recommendation then
she would consume approximately 0.031 µg of testosterone
from that meat. That 0.031 µg of testosterone would be approximately 1/1000th of her daily production. Because the amount
of steroidal hormones that are ingested daily is minute in comparison to the amount produced naturally the effect of residue
increases due to implantation is insignificant.
But there are other problems too.
I guess a lot of the "tren" and etc. washes out through the cow's poo and urine, and runs off into the environment one way or another.
They've had streams near fed lots contaminated, and it affects fish their reproduction negatively, etc. Masculinized female fish.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:55 am
by alek
Something that I've been enjoying lately is granola mixed into whole milk Greek yogurt. You get plenty of protein and fat from the yogurt, assuming you eat about a cup or more, and the granola is gonna have plenty of fiber and carbs, again assuming you get a granola made of whole grains like oats, nuts, and such. Maybe a couple bucks per "serving" depending on how large you make your bowl.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:12 am
by Allentown
alek wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:55 am
Something that I've been enjoying lately is granola mixed into whole milk Greek yogurt. You get plenty of protein and fat from the yogurt, assuming you eat about a cup or more, and the granola is gonna have plenty of fiber and carbs, again assuming you get a granola made of whole grains like oats, nuts, and such. Maybe a couple bucks per "serving" depending on how large you make your bowl.
Kirkland fat free greek yogurt and quaker simply granola. Easy way to get in solid protein and lots of carbs. Add peanut butter for fats.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:12 am
by alek
Allentown wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:12 am
Add peanut butter for fats.
Hmm... haven't tried that. I sometimes like adding it to oatmeal though.
Allentown wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:12 am
Add peanut butter for fats.
Hmm... haven't tried that. I sometimes like adding it to oatmeal though.
Just tried it for the first time last week, and I'm obsessed
Okay, you've convinced me; I'm trying it in a few minutes.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:48 pm
by 5hout
Meijer (at least Bath Meijer) 2.35 buy 1 get 1 free 1 lbs 80 20 beef foam trays for a net price of 1.26 per lbs if you buy 2. Bought 8 and got 4 free. Worth a trip, but idk if Meijer wide so check local ads.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:17 am
by EggMcMuffin
Who got the connect for poverty meal recipes
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:52 am
by 5hout
Anaphase wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:17 am
Who got the connect for poverty meal recipes
Anaphase wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:17 am
Who got the connect for poverty meal recipes
My go-to meal now is beef(80/20)/turkey chili.
Super cheap. High protein. Can prepare lots at once. Lasts in refrigerator.
Re: Food Prices and Diet Changes
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:49 pm
by omaniphil
Can't help with recipes, but if you need cheap protein, Costco's $5 rotisseries chickens can't be beat. We pick one of those up once a week, and serve it as a meal for my family of 5 with rice and grilled/baked veggies. Whole meal costs less than $10 probably at $2/person.