Specialization is for Specialists

[mgil]

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

Was reminded of this quote from another forum. Also reminded that Rip was never clever enough to come up with this on his own, despite the notion he doesn’t cite the reference on his tees.

Anyhow, this quote strikes me as somewhat absurd. I can understand the general notion, but taking in to account all of the activities above, specialization is what has allowed for human culture to advance. Note that my stance is one from a perspective of having done a decent portion of that list. I’m sure many of us have.

I guess why I find this passage so irksome is that Heinlein’s point is rather plausible until that last line. Further, looking at things scientifically with regards to insects, we’ve found that specialization allows them to build colonies quickly and efficiently, transfer knowledge across generations, and provide for an effective strategy against the chaos of nature. As a result, the “impact” of this quote is somewhat lost on me.

For what it’s worth, Assguard still sells the tee shirts without attribution. Along with tees of Rip saying “I am the science” and a shirt saying “Starting Strength - Always Hard”.

/Sunday morning complaining

[sklunk]

Specialization is for insects. Now do three sets of five on four exercises using only this very specific technique until you die.

[broseph]

That quote always bothered me because it was used to advocate for being a jack of all trades, when it’s really saying be a master of all trades. Also, specializing in being fat and mediocre at 4 lifts is the exact opposite of either of those things.

Maybe if I lived enough lifetimes I could become a specialist generalist like Lazarus Long.

[dw]

As already noted, SS is in fact highly "specialized" in the sense that it uses the same four lifts for the same reps over and over.

[hector]

That quote would make a lot more sense for a Strongman group.

[GlasgowJock]

I always viewed the quote in the sense that a person should be able to turn their hand to a 'new project' and achieve adequate competency, such as farming, education, military, raising a family etc as their ever changing situation/ political climate demands, particularly given the context of his most particular book.

[mgil]

I always viewed the quote in the sense that a person should be able to turn their hand to a 'new project' and achieve adequate competency, such as farming, education, military, raising a family etc as their ever changing situation/ political climate demands, particularly given the context of his most particular book.

The quote, in total, makes decent sense. When “paraphrased” down to the last sentence, it’s borderline abrasive. There are some other thoughts in my mind as well, insofar that generalizing even further makes things absolutely absurd. An example, “a man should know how to give birth”. Biology has already cleaved us into somewhat specialized roles from the get-go.

[GlasgowJock]

I always viewed the quote in the sense that a person should be able to turn their hand to a 'new project' and achieve adequate competency, such as farming, education, military, raising a family etc as their ever changing situation/ political climate demands, particularly given the context of his most particular book.

The quote, in total, makes decent sense. When “paraphrased” down to the last sentence, it’s borderline abrasive. There are some other thoughts in my mind as well, insofar that generalizing even further makes things absolutely absurd. An example, “a man should know how to give birth”. Biology has already cleaved us into somewhat specialized roles from the get-go.

I'd be curious towards Heinlein's ability to have 'practiced what he preached' throughout his life too tbh to qualify his statement.

As for the latter part of your paragraph, I simply couldn't comment as #imnotabiologist

[asdf]

That quote would make a lot more sense for a Strongman group.

The quote was co-opted by lots of CrossFit affiliates, back in the day.

Also, Glassman said of CrossFit, back in 2004:

"The fitness that CrossFit advocates and develops is broad, general, and inclusive. Our specialty is not specializing. Combat, survival, many sports, and life reward this kind of fitness and, on average, punish the specialist."

[Allentown]

That quote would make a lot more sense for a Strongman group.

The quote was co-opted by lots of CrossFit affiliates, back in the day.

Also, Glassman said of CrossFit, back in 2004:

"The fitness that CrossFit advocates and develops is broad, general, and inclusive. Our specialty is not specializing. Combat, survival, many sports, and life reward this kind of fitness and, on average, punish the specialist."

No sport rewards broad, general "fitness" and lack of specialization.

[asdf]

No sport rewards broad, general "fitness" and lack of specialization.

The decathlon. American-style wrestling. MMA. etc.

He's contrasting the sort of well-balanced fitness* those sports require with the highly specialized fitness required to run a 4-min mile or deadlift 900 pounds.

Not trying to defend Glassman or CrossFit, just trying to clarify.

*Well-balanced in terms of cardio-respiratory endurance, stamina, strength, power, speed, agility, coordination, balance, flexibility, accuracy.

[mgil]

Even in the world of CrossFit, the early games were often won by someone with a solid weightlifting background and a modicum of cardio, iirc.

[mouse]

Note that my stance is one from a perspective of having done a decent portion of that list. I’m sure many of us have.

Name one invasion you've planned...

I'M WAITING.

[mgil]

Note that my stance is one from a perspective of having done a decent portion of that list. I’m sure many of us have.

Name one invasion you've planned...

I'M WAITING.

I’ve planned an invasion of Uranus. It was successful.

[5hout]

I always viewed the quote in the sense that a person should be able to turn their hand to a 'new project' and achieve adequate competency, such as farming, education, military, raising a family etc as their ever changing situation/ political climate demands, particularly given the context of his most particular book.

The quote, in total, makes decent sense. When “paraphrased” down to the last sentence, it’s borderline abrasive. There are some other thoughts in my mind as well, insofar that generalizing even further makes things absolutely absurd. An example, “a man should know how to give birth”. Biology has already cleaved us into somewhat specialized roles from the get-go.

I'd be curious towards Heinlein's ability to have 'practiced what he preached' throughout his life too tbh to qualify his statement.

I think he'd have managed fairly well, and lived it fairly well. He fenced at the naval academy, and was quite good (especially given his lack of background in it). Strong academic background. Actually, not going to detail the thinking side of things. Let's leave it at clearly high IQ, mathematically talented, strong book work ethic and not afraid of digging into new fields.

Over a period of years, at his house in Santa Cruz, he completely remodeled and re-built the grounds using muscle power/block and tackle/wheelbarrows. In one of his collected letters he bragged "there are many 2 car families, but how many 2 wheelbarrow families?". He took a permaculture approach using physical labor to work towards the best expression of that microclimate.

I think the combination of natural physical talents, work ethic for physical and book activities and willingness to (even later in life) to dive into new fields and become competent shows he lived the quote. But, to counter some of the above hagiography, his work (and that quote), and especially his post 1st marriage work, really depend on being a physically talented 130+ IQ person. I love his books, but his protagonists and most positive side characters embody this sort of aspirational ubermensch drive.

That's fine as motivational literature, and I love the books. As a blueprint for a society though I think it falls fairly short. Certainly a great blueprint for what libertarian minded smart people should strive for, and highly influential in my own life, but doesn't necessarily translate to "now build a society that allows someone to specialize so much they can spend 40 years advancing 1 tiny aspect of ceramics, and also allows a dignified life for 85 IQ people with palsy."

To counter-counter this: I think Heinlein himself would admit this, and that his views are more nuanced and over time he's become sort of a mirror for lazy fat sci-fi fans to see themselves as swashbuckling genius libertarian Naval Academy Grads.

tl;dr: People that only read Starship Troopers and google "Heinlein" quotes miss out on nuance. If you want to have your mind blown read the un-edited Podkayne of Mars stuff.

[Allentown]

No sport rewards broad, general "fitness" and lack of specialization.

The decathlon. American-style wrestling. MMA. etc.

He's contrasting the sort of well-balanced fitness* those sports require with the highly specialized fitness required to run a 4-min mile or deadlift 900 pounds.

Not trying to defend Glassman or CrossFit, just trying to clarify.

*Well-balanced in terms of cardio-respiratory endurance, stamina, strength, power, speed, agility, coordination, balance, flexibility, accuracy.

That's fair.
I was thinking more in terms of training- I've only trained around one former very high level decathalete, who was no longer training for their sport. So I don't know what goes into the training. But I suspect there is little to no time spent, and almost certainly not a whole training block, focusing on 1RM SBD. Or, like, yoga. Or ultramarathons.

[aurelius]

As a blueprint for a society though I think it falls fairly short.

And thus the need for eugenics.

[hector]

tl;dr: People that only read Starship Troopers and google "Heinlein" quotes miss out on nuance.

Those fuckers are the worst.
Even reading just Moon is a Harsh Mistress will show some different insights and takes on society.

[Hamburgerfan]

Like a lot of Heinlein, this quote is very thought provoking but gets absurd pretty quickly if taken uncritically as the truth.

[Hardartery]

This is one huge group of nerds. I must include myself here, I read a ton of his stuff around Middle School age (Didn't go to Middle School, because there was no such thing where I grew up, it was Elementary then Secondary) . I loved the early stuff, and enjoyed it less the newer it got until I quit reading his new stuff when I was around 13. That Mars stuff was great though.