Programming Deadlifts and LBBSs around Olympic lifting

[damufunman]

I've been back squatting and deadlifting while also training the Olympic lifts. Basically doing TM for squats and deadlifts with 3 Olympic lifting days mixed in. Past couple of weeks after volume squats and 5RM deadlifts on Sunday (and maxing Snatch and Clean & Jerk Saturday), on Tuesday my low back has been really bother me during my light Snatches. I'm wondering if I'm pounding too hard on it over the weekend and have a few questions about some options I've been considering in order from what I think would be best to worst:
1. Reduce deadlift intensity, increase volume
2. Start doing HBBS for squat volume
3. Moving deadlifts to a different day or changing my schedule to get more rest days after deadlifting
4. Reduce (heavy) deadlifting frequency to once every 2-4 weeks?

Or do some combination of above.

[mbasic]

Don't deadlift, or #4 as you put it and turn your displeasure into pleasure.
You already low bar squat.
But low bar squat does or does not put more stress on the back?
Deadlifts do put more stress there; but then, all of the other Olympic pulling does also.
So we want to alleviate some of the stress by low bar squatting. Wait, wut?
But He wants us to do heavy deadlifts every two weeks, and post continuous PR's there.
So yes, keep Low Bar squatting and pull heavy deads, and just suck it up butter cup.
HERE: https://startingstrength.com/resources/ ... ost1577904

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Your #1 is interesting. Hmm how can we do that?
Maybe by putting less on the bar?
80%-90% RM is "no man's land", remember. (ref: F-Bomb...sounds like a lesbo-porno I know right)
So maybe 60%-70% then would be good, right?
Maybe just some more recoverable volume and reasonable loads . . .
maybe then a "fast deadlift" with 60%-70% DL loads ? RIGHT?
ahhh, yes, maybe we could call it a clean pull, or snatch pull....maybe make it more specific to your clean or snatch set up.
Because specificity . . . its not like I'm asking Colin Kaperknick to throw a 20# DB like a football or something.

But Everett Rx's those clean pulls, so those are gay then, because they're not really deadlifts, as not considered dead lifting then.
because He says we should deadlift. (He=Him aka TMPHBITEU).
And All-In-Trawl said Everett's program doesn't have any deadlifts, because he's a Technique Whore Prick Fuck (TWPF).
Even tho I have that same program he ran, and its full of Clean Pulls/Deads and snatch pulls w/ 5x5 once or twice a week.
But yet your doing this while doing your clean and snatches, remember, all the "stress on the low back".
but 5x5 is for Bill Star StrongliftWannabes. err'y bdy noes dat you fuktard.
So us phaggits don't know how to program for strength and sheet lyk dat.
We are all just comparing our Virus Tights and using our wrist strap to lift our coffee cups when we're not doin ChristFit.
So just do your FDLCG and be done with it (Fast Dead Lift w/ Clean Grip)
Caffine and Kilos forever brah!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[damufunman]

Whoa. Struck nerve here, I see Mike. Lol.
Not sure where you going with this...

I guess I could take a step back and ask does HBBS put more or less stress on the low back?

[OCG]

Whoa. Struck nerve here, I see Mike. Lol.
Not sure where you going with this...

I guess I could take a step back and ask does HBBS put more or less stress on the low back?

Less if you're more upright, more if you're just as bent over.

[slowmotion]

I guess I could take a step back and ask does HBBS put more or less stress on the low back?

My own low back tells me that HBBS should be easier to handle than LBBS.
I usually do an almost-LBBS.
But I like the deadlift much more than the squat ( and so does my low back),
but if I recall correctly you like the squat better than the deadlift?

[jake]

Whoa. Struck nerve here, I see Mike. Lol.
Not sure where you going with this...

I guess I could take a step back and ask does HBBS put more or less stress on the low back?

For me, I think it is less, but squatting might not be the largest contributor to your low back fatigue.

You are just getting into the lifts, yeah? It may be worth it to focus on them for a while and put deadlift strength development on the back burner for a bit. I think what basic is saying is do clean/snatch pulls instead: either the 'pull' pulls with the little shrug&pop at the top, or clean/snatch deadlifts, no pop. Either way, sounds like 5rm deadlifts are counterproductive to your olympic lifting.

Basic: that was awesome. Kinda like Obama's anger translator, Luther.

[damufunman]

For me, I think it is less, but squatting might not be the largest contributor to your low back fatigue.

You are just getting into the lifts, yeah? It may be worth it to focus on them for a while and put deadlift strength development on the back burner for a bit. I think what basic is saying is do clean/snatch pulls instead: either the 'pull' pulls with the little shrug&pop at the top, or clean/snatch deadlifts, no pop. Either way, sounds like 5rm deadlifts are counterproductive to your olympic lifting.

Basic: that was awesome. Kinda like Obama's anger translator, Luther.

I started really working them in December last year, took some time off and started again in about April/May this year. So yes, less than a year into it. I really wanted to keep working on strength, but it's looking more and more like I need to put more effort into the lefts. I was planning on using the time of newborn to back off on strength and through some lighter weights around, which presumably would require less recovery resources. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I might try doing lighter pulls ("pulls" pulls, or lighter/speed deadlifts) in place of deadlifts in the meantime though, as I think the 5RMs are starting to produce too much fatigue. At least I'll try this first and see if I can continue low bar squatting, but that might change as well, just I'm curious to see if the carryover is different. Might even try running an experiment to see if there's a difference wrt improving Olympic lifts.

[jake]

Sounds like a plan. At the least you'll have some data on how you respond.

At least I'll try this first and see if I can continue low bar squatting, but that might change as well, just I'm curious to see if the carryover is different. Might even try running an experiment to see if there's a difference wrt improving Olympic lifts.

Interested to see what you think. Personally, I never thought it mattered. After squatting low bar for a while, I always find high bar exciting, and vice versa. My squat generally goes up (albeit modestly) regardless of where the bar is. *shrugs*

[damufunman]

I know I shouldn't be concerned with my squat numbers if I'm trying to get my Olympic lifts up. But I like squatting. In any case, I'd probably run multiple A/B experiments with squatting to see what drives the lifts more.

[Kregna]

I know I shouldn't be concerned with my squat numbers if I'm trying to get my Olympic lifts up. But I like squatting. In any case, I'd probably run multiple A/B experiments with squatting to see what drives the lifts more.

I'm the same in that I also want to PR the squat and deadlift (and for me, that's actually the priority). I have no input RE programming (being new to this and all) but I think it somewhat depends on your priorities. I don't want to switch completely to RDLs or SGDLs, because I still want to get my regular DL up - even if it's not ideal for weightlifting

[damufunman]

I'm the same in that I also want to PR the squat and deadlift (and for me, that's actually the priority). I have no input RE programming (being new to this and all) but I think it somewhat depends on your priorities. I don't want to switch completely to RDLs or SGDLs, because I still want to get my regular DL up - even if it's not ideal for weightlifting

I'm with ya on wanting to get my lifts up, but I'm also starting to get some back pain. Not sure if I'm doing too much, or if I've hurt something or just aggravating an old injury. I'm gonna take it a little easier on my back next couple of weeks and see how it goes. Might look at some other deadlift programming options, but I don't see being able to deadlift multiple times per week, so maybe just assistance stuff.

[Murelli]

You guys should get someone to do your programming and trust them. Seems like periodizing squat and deadlifts around an olympic lifting schedule is much more complex than PPST:3 makes it look.

[damufunman]

You guys should get someone to do your programming and trust them. Seems like periodizing squat and deadlifts around an olympic lifting schedule is much more complex than PPST:3 makes it look.

Yeah starting to figure that out... the complexity part. Still haven't learned to have someone program for me though.

[Murelli]

You guys should get someone to do your programming and trust them. Seems like periodizing squat and deadlifts around an olympic lifting schedule is much more complex than PPST:3 makes it look.

Yeah starting to figure that out... the complexity part. Still haven't learned to have someone program for me though.

That said, have you tried the following:

- More conservative progression (increase every month instead of every few weeks);
- Less intensity;
- Spreading out the volume / rotating rep ranges;
- Variating the lift (box squat, pause squat, beltless, tempo, etc.)?

The "oly HLM" part of PPST:3 gives more insight to it than the TM part (Adding Training Days - position 4829 on kindle).

[damufunman]

That said, have you tried the following:

- More conservative progression (increase every month instead of every few weeks);
- Less intensity;
- Spreading out the volume / rotating rep ranges;
- Variating the lift (box squat, pause squat, beltless, tempo, etc.)?

The "oly HLM" part of PPST:3 gives more insight to it than the TM part (Adding Training Days - position 4829 on kindle).

For squats or deadlifts? Squats are still going fine, and I'm working toward rotating rep ranges (TM style), though also been considering some of the discussions on "TM sucks, bro". I'm varying upper body lifts with press/bench/push press, but that's mostly for Olympic specificity. But yeah, I've gone through the adding training days portion a bunch of times, and modelled my program off that somewhat. I don't need 4 days of Oly yet, but can't do volume squats + deadlifts after heavy Sn/C&Js, so I broke that day up into 2. But I can manage on 5x5, front squats, and intensity day, so I'm sticking with that for now, mostly cuz I like the heavy set end of the week. I could probably use some backoff sets after that soon, especially if I need to lower 5x5 intensity. Deadlift was moving along nicely for the past 2 months, but then suddenly started giving me problems so I'm trying to work out how to go forward from here with respect to pulling/lower back fatigue management.

Lower intensity and/or spreading out volume (though only deadlift volume was the 5RM after squats and press, still gonna try current LBBS scheme) seems to be the way to go.