PSMF -- EC Stack vs. Adderall - Sleep

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DoctorWho
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PSMF -- EC Stack vs. Adderall - Sleep

#1

Post by DoctorWho » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:57 pm

Questions about EC stack on a Protein Sparing Modified Fast:
1. It's much easier for me to get Adderall or Ritalin than ephedrine. Are they substitutes?
2. Is the EC stack supposed to suppress appetite? If so, how do people balance sleep and appetite at night?

When Adderall wears off in me, I can't sleep because of hunger, which leads to overeating either that night or the next day -- I think it's referred to a ego depletion. Does the EC stack somehow get around this?

Very much appreciate any guidance.

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Hardartery
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Re: PSMF -- EC Stack vs. Adderall - Sleep

#2

Post by Hardartery » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:53 pm

Adderall is amphetamine. That is literally the generic prescription. Ritalin is also a stimulant but a dfferent salt and it functions differently than Adderall. They do similar things, in similar ways, but are not really substitutes. Adderall can also be highly addictive, depending on the individual. The difference between Ephedra and Adderall is like the difference between Ephedra and Meth. Similar, but very different. The EC stack will not help your problem, unless you can take it and then sleep, which you would also be able to do with Adderall if you could do that. Try a protein shake with some fibre added before bed, something that will help you feel full enough to sleep.

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Re: PSMF -- EC Stack vs. Adderall - Sleep

#3

Post by 5hout » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:43 pm

I was under the the impression, I think from a Glenn Pendlay articles I can't find anymore, that the Ephedrine in an ECA stack was there to increase baseline energy expenditure, the caffeine was there for appetite suppression and the aspirin to help mitigate side effects. If you're looking to go this route I'd also check out:

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/77/6/1442/4689853

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Re: PSMF -- EC Stack vs. Adderall - Sleep

#4

Post by lheugh » Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:31 am

Ephedrine is a common ingredient in combination (prescription) appetite suppressants as it is one of the potential side effects of usage. The issue is it is usually accompanied by other unwelcome symptoms like dizziness, shaky hands, tremors, heartbeat irregularities, and distress. Anyone with cardiac irregularities, high blood pressure, and/or thyroid conditions should avoid it entirely. The caffeine and ephedrine in the ECA stack act as the thermogenic stimulants, while the aspirin helps to deter lipogenesis by blocking acetate from assimilating into fatty acids.

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Re: PSMF -- EC Stack vs. Adderall - Sleep

#5

Post by Hardartery » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:11 am

lheugh wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:31 am Ephedrine is a common ingredient in combination (prescription) appetite suppressants as it is one of the potential side effects of usage. The issue is it is usually accompanied by other unwelcome symptoms like dizziness, shaky hands, tremors, heartbeat irregularities, and distress. Anyone with cardiac irregularities, high blood pressure, and/or thyroid conditions should avoid it entirely. The caffeine and ephedrine in the ECA stack act as the thermogenic stimulants, while the aspirin helps to deter lipogenesis by blocking acetate from assimilating into fatty acids.
I need to say up front that this is not an attack on you or even a criticism,just a response in general to something often repeated and stated as fact.
Stimulants do not universally cause problems for these conditions. They do not. Stimulants can, in fact, lower BP in some people, among other opposite than expected effects. It depends on the person, their individual genetics, and their other extenuating factors. I am diagnosed with ADD, and also have CYP 2D6 polymorphisms (Along with other ones). This results in me processing roughly 40% of drugs differently than someone without these polymorphisms. I can take a massive amount of stimulant with minor effect, but it has been demonstrated to lower my BP, pulse, and stress. It also makes me sleepy. If I were to experience a cardiac event, it might on fact actually be the best thing to give me. But not the guy that gets wired from mild stimulants like caffeine. There is NO overarching definitive result of anything that covers all of the human population. Somebody should base their expectations on how they react to similar/weaker types of the same substance. The fact is, caffeine is also a stimulant like the ephedra, but with a diuetic side effect that results in shedding water for a lot of people. It makes a lot of people urinate more, even while experiencing dehydration (From the thermogenic effects typically experienced from stimulants). None of that is articularly dangerous for most of the population. The aspirin dilates things, because that's what it does, increasing blood flow and theoretically counter acting increased blood pressure from the stimulants. It's fantastic bro-science. The truth is, the aspirin is irrelevant at best, and it's a terrible way to cut weight in the long term picture. It's fine for a short run to make a weigh-in, and safer than a lot of other options, but should not be done long term for reasons of declining efficacy and that it can actually cause some rebound weight gain.

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Re: PSMF -- EC Stack vs. Adderall - Sleep

#6

Post by Hardartery » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:13 am

It also does not work at all for people like me, probably becasuse I don't metabolize the E or C correctly.

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Re: PSMF -- EC Stack vs. Adderall - Sleep

#7

Post by lheugh » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:35 am

Hardartery wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:11 am
lheugh wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:31 am Ephedrine is a common ingredient in combination (prescription) appetite suppressants as it is one of the potential side effects of usage. The issue is it is usually accompanied by other unwelcome symptoms like dizziness, shaky hands, tremors, heartbeat irregularities, and distress. Anyone with cardiac irregularities, high blood pressure, and/or thyroid conditions should avoid it entirely. The caffeine and ephedrine in the ECA stack act as the thermogenic stimulants, while the aspirin helps to deter lipogenesis by blocking acetate from assimilating into fatty acids.
I need to say up front that this is not an attack on you or even a criticism,just a response in general to something often repeated and stated as fact.
Stimulants do not universally cause problems for these conditions. They do not. Stimulants can, in fact, lower BP in some people, among other opposite than expected effects. It depends on the person, their individual genetics, and their other extenuating factors. I am diagnosed with ADD, and also have CYP 2D6 polymorphisms (Along with other ones). This results in me processing roughly 40% of drugs differently than someone without these polymorphisms. I can take a massive amount of stimulant with minor effect, but it has been demonstrated to lower my BP, pulse, and stress. It also makes me sleepy. If I were to experience a cardiac event, it might on fact actually be the best thing to give me. But not the guy that gets wired from mild stimulants like caffeine. There is NO overarching definitive result of anything that covers all of the human population. Somebody should base their expectations on how they react to similar/weaker types of the same substance. The fact is, caffeine is also a stimulant like the ephedra, but with a diuetic side effect that results in shedding water for a lot of people. It makes a lot of people urinate more, even while experiencing dehydration (From the thermogenic effects typically experienced from stimulants). None of that is articularly dangerous for most of the population. The aspirin dilates things, because that's what it does, increasing blood flow and theoretically counter acting increased blood pressure from the stimulants. It's fantastic bro-science. The truth is, the aspirin is irrelevant at best, and it's a terrible way to cut weight in the long term picture. It's fine for a short run to make a weigh-in, and safer than a lot of other options, but should not be done long term for reasons of declining efficacy and that it can actually cause some rebound weight gain.
All good sir! I agree that blanket statements about potential reactions aren't universally true. As you stated, there are considerable confounding variables when it comes to how one responds to anything. On a personal note, caffeine (up to 1g) does nothing objectively/symptomatically for/to me but I take it out of habit. Receptors adapting to such things is one such confounding variable.

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