Experiences on BBM Templates

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#81

Post by mouse » Fri May 06, 2022 2:17 am

Cleverusername wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:02 pm They have an app now. I have not used it, but it appears you can load up whatever template you purchase in their app.
Stupid apple only though right now...
dw wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:32 pm The BBM novice program has something like 6 or maybe 8 sets of biceps curls per week. I needed more like 12, and that was just starting. Two years later I do 24 sets.
And this is AFTER they adjusted and added more bicep work to their 'building' programs. It used to be like 'I dunno, do a myo-rep set once or twice a week'. I wish I knew how many sets my biceps needed to grow but I never consistently train them so I guess it will be an eternal mystery...

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#82

Post by Allentown » Fri May 06, 2022 2:43 am

Cleverusername wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:02 pm They have an app now. I have not used it, but it appears you can load up whatever template you purchase in their app.
I have an android phone. They said still a year+ for android app.
dw wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:32 pm Maybe I'm judging things from the skewed perspective of an outlier, but I now think programs with fixed amounts of volume don't make any sense. It's such a critical variable and one that is highly lifter dependent.

Maybe most people are sufficiently bunched up together on the bell curve of volume needs that it doesn't really matter but for me most off the shelf programs will literally do nothing for me (beyond some strength gains in any novel movement the program happens to contain).

The BBM novice program has something like 6 or maybe 8 sets of biceps curls per week. I needed more like 12, and that was just starting. Two years later I do 24 sets.

I digress...
I have perhaps 70min MAX to lift. My volume is time-limited. And my best (only?) progress on the main lifts was made on KUA, a single top AMAP set followed by 4x4 back off sets, hitting each lift once per week, so...
Regardless, I am starting my summer cut at the same time, so I fully expect no progress anyways.

FWIW Powerbuilding III has 8 sets of direct bicep work, and 15 sets of indirect bicep work (upper back, rows, and DB fly). Triceps is more, 8 sets of isolation triceps plus pin bench, floor press, and all the other pressing.
Last edited by Allentown on Fri May 06, 2022 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#83

Post by Cleverusername » Fri May 06, 2022 6:24 am

Shoot, forgot about you android people.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#84

Post by Allentown » Fri May 06, 2022 6:56 am

Cleverusername wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:24 am Shoot, forgot about you android people.
Seems like you would want to target 85% of the market first, then go after the tiny margins...

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#85

Post by FredM » Mon May 16, 2022 9:19 am

dw wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:32 pm
Allentown wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:29 am Bought Powerbuilding III. Still a spreadsheet, but outside of occasionally getting stuck in a cell and having to close it to get out, it has worked OK for 4 days so far.
Workouts have been pretty easy in week 1, I could probably double the volume on some stuff with a tad lighter weight but I'm actually going to stick to the program for the first time ever.
Maybe I'm judging things from the skewed perspective of an outlier, but I now think programs with fixed amounts of volume don't make any sense. It's such a critical variable and one that is highly lifter dependent.

Maybe most people are sufficiently bunched up together on the bell curve of volume needs that it doesn't really matter but for me most off the shelf programs will literally do nothing for me (beyond some strength gains in any novel movement the program happens to contain).

The BBM novice program has something like 6 or maybe 8 sets of biceps curls per week. I needed more like 12, and that was just starting. Two years later I do 24 sets.

I digress...
100% this. I honestly don't understand how BBM is still selling templates when juggernaut AI is almost cheaper/wk assuming you aren't reusing the same template a bunch of times (something they tell you not to do). Same with every other "club" program which are all just basically templates for the same price or more than Juggernaut AI.

Heck, Future is only costing me $75/month, which gives me a personal coach that texts me almost daily and adjusts volume every month. That's only like $20 more than some 8 week BBM templates..

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#86

Post by janoycresva » Thu May 26, 2022 7:04 pm

I ran their original 3 day/week hypertrophy program and made no progress (actually detrained on squat), ran 12 week strength twice and gained some marginal bench and squat strength but absolutely torpedoed my deadlift (like 50lb transient suppression in 1rm with about 30lb of that coming back after a deload)

in terms of effort to reward it was probably the single worst run of training I have ever done, not very impressed with their spreadsheet design either

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#87

Post by dw » Thu May 26, 2022 9:50 pm

janoycresva wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:04 pm I ran their original 3 day/week hypertrophy program and made no progress (actually detrained on squat), ran 12 week strength twice and gained some marginal bench and squat strength but absolutely torpedoed my deadlift (like 50lb transient suppression in 1rm with about 30lb of that coming back after a deload)

in terms of effort to reward it was probably the single worst run of training I have ever done, not very impressed with their spreadsheet design either
Assuming you're bulking in the hypertrophy phase and that you're not too advanced results like this should never happen with good programming.

I think the SBD emphasis kind of muddies the water by combining strength and hypertrophy goals when for a lot of people it is far more efficient to just focus on hypertrophy until they get fairly advanced, even if they do care about SBD.

And focusing on hypertrophy means imo not much more than piling on as much volume as needed and choosing movements that allow you do to this without accumulating unnecessary fatigue.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#88

Post by Allentown » Fri May 27, 2022 5:31 am

dw wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:50 pm I think the SBD emphasis kind of muddies the water by combining strength and hypertrophy goals when for a lot of people it is far more efficient to just focus on hypertrophy until they get fairly advanced, even if they do care about SBD.
I feel like this might be correct, but:
I've got a smaller home gym, so I'm not able to do much isolation work;
Doing three days a week of 3+ sets of 3+ exercises of direct arm work also got me exactly no where, so it's not like I can do any worse

I'm cutting right now, so a terrible time for a powerbuilding program, but also I am enjoying the training so I'm happy.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#89

Post by janoycresva » Fri May 27, 2022 8:50 am

dw wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:50 pm
janoycresva wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:04 pm I ran their original 3 day/week hypertrophy program and made no progress (actually detrained on squat), ran 12 week strength twice and gained some marginal bench and squat strength but absolutely torpedoed my deadlift (like 50lb transient suppression in 1rm with about 30lb of that coming back after a deload)

in terms of effort to reward it was probably the single worst run of training I have ever done, not very impressed with their spreadsheet design either
Assuming you're bulking in the hypertrophy phase and that you're not too advanced results like this should never happen with good programming.

I think the SBD emphasis kind of muddies the water by combining strength and hypertrophy goals when for a lot of people it is far more efficient to just focus on hypertrophy until they get fairly advanced, even if they do care about SBD.

And focusing on hypertrophy means imo not much more than piling on as much volume as needed and choosing movements that allow you do to this without accumulating unnecessary fatigue.
I think the original hypertrophy template is too low volume. Agree that SBD focus doesn’t make sense if hypertrophy is the goal. Depending on your build the SFR for those lifts can be absolute dogshit, too.

For example, I think my quads have been sore from squatting like five times in the past decade, and every single time my low back and adductors were absolutely cripplingly sore while my quads were just a little sore. When I first tried leg press (after like 4-5 years of barbell only training) it felt like I had never used my quads before.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#90

Post by dw » Fri May 27, 2022 8:57 am

janoycresva wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:50 am
dw wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:50 pm
janoycresva wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:04 pm I ran their original 3 day/week hypertrophy program and made no progress (actually detrained on squat), ran 12 week strength twice and gained some marginal bench and squat strength but absolutely torpedoed my deadlift (like 50lb transient suppression in 1rm with about 30lb of that coming back after a deload)

in terms of effort to reward it was probably the single worst run of training I have ever done, not very impressed with their spreadsheet design either
Assuming you're bulking in the hypertrophy phase and that you're not too advanced results like this should never happen with good programming.

I think the SBD emphasis kind of muddies the water by combining strength and hypertrophy goals when for a lot of people it is far more efficient to just focus on hypertrophy until they get fairly advanced, even if they do care about SBD.

And focusing on hypertrophy means imo not much more than piling on as much volume as needed and choosing movements that allow you do to this without accumulating unnecessary fatigue.
I think the original hypertrophy template is too low volume. Agree that SBD focus doesn’t make sense if hypertrophy is the goal. Depending on your build the SFR for those lifts can be absolute dogshit, too.

For example, I think my quads have been sore from squatting like five times in the past decade, and every single time my low back and adductors were absolutely cripplingly sore while my quads were just a little sore. When I first tried leg press (after like 4-5 years of barbell only training) it felt like I had never used my quads before.

I had the same experience with quads and squats. I got more quad hypertrophy in my first two months of leg extensions + hack squat than I had in...IDK 8 months or so of squatting.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#91

Post by janoycresva » Fri May 27, 2022 9:12 am

I think machine based leg work is super underrated in general among internet lifting nerds. You can push yourself incredibly hard due to the low technical requirements, and the limiting factor will actually be your legs and not your low back or ability to keep your technique from disintegrating.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#92

Post by omaniphil » Fri May 27, 2022 10:26 am

janoycresva wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 9:12 am I think machine based leg work is super underrated in general among internet lifting nerds. You can push yourself incredibly hard due to the low technical requirements, and the limiting factor will actually be your legs and not your low back or ability to keep your technique from disintegrating.
Excellent point. I stopped squatting a couple of years ago since I had hip tendonitis I just couldn't overcome, even with some BBM consults with Dr Miles. At the time, I was lifting at home, so kept deadlifting and BPing, but since I joined a gym 6 months ago, I started leg pressing, and its been amazing. I leg press 4x10 twice a week, while still deadlifting 1x per week, and I'm close to my all time deadlift PR without even trying really. My previous sticking point was always breaking off the floor, while now it is closer to lockout.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#93

Post by quikky » Fri May 27, 2022 12:15 pm

janoycresva wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 9:12 am I think machine based leg work is super underrated in general among internet lifting nerds. You can push yourself incredibly hard due to the low technical requirements, and the limiting factor will actually be your legs and not your low back or ability to keep your technique from disintegrating.
There is an SBD religion that some adhere to that is hard to shake off. People tie their identities to how they move barbells around. YoU MuSt sQuAT! Kind of weird, actually.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#94

Post by DCR » Fri May 27, 2022 3:02 pm

I’ve no quarrel with machine based leg work and of course understand the issue of lower back or elbows or shoulders dying before one’s legs. That said, there’s a reason why bodybuilders don’t do fahves. Lower the weight, go high rep and actively squeeze each rep, and I can assure you that your quads will hate you the following day (and grow).

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#95

Post by dw » Fri May 27, 2022 3:08 pm

DCR wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 3:02 pm I’ve no quarrel with machine based leg work and of course understand the issue of lower back or elbows or shoulders dying before one’s legs. That said, there’s a reason why bodybuilders don’t do fahves. Lower the weight, go high rep and actively squeeze each rep, and I can assure you that your quads will hate you the following day (and grow).

I think in my case I had such a strong hamstring:quad imbalance that squats couldn't be an effective quad stimulus for me until my quads caught up. Would they be now? Seems entirely possible.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#96

Post by janoycresva » Fri May 27, 2022 4:31 pm

DCR wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 3:02 pm I’ve no quarrel with machine based leg work and of course understand the issue of lower back or elbows or shoulders dying before one’s legs. That said, there’s a reason why bodybuilders don’t do fahves. Lower the weight, go high rep and actively squeeze each rep, and I can assure you that your quads will hate you the following day (and grow).
even with sets of 12-15 I feel absolutely nothing in my legs, but my low back feels like it’s about to explode from lactic acid accumulation and my adductors feel like they’re torn to shreds the next few days

then again I have a 38 inch inseam and go almost completely horizontal on highbar squats lmao

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#97

Post by DCR » Fri May 27, 2022 5:24 pm

janoycresva wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:31 pm
DCR wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 3:02 pm I’ve no quarrel with machine based leg work and of course understand the issue of lower back or elbows or shoulders dying before one’s legs. That said, there’s a reason why bodybuilders don’t do fahves. Lower the weight, go high rep and actively squeeze each rep, and I can assure you that your quads will hate you the following day (and grow).
even with sets of 12-15 I feel absolutely nothing in my legs, but my low back feels like it’s about to explode from lactic acid accumulation and my adductors feel like they’re torn to shreds the next few days

then again I have a 38 inch inseam and go almost completely horizontal on highbar squats lmao
Yeah that’s probably not conducive. :lol:

I’ve been spending a lot of time in Baton Rogue lately and lifting at a sorta commercial spot. As with most such spots, every woman squats with perfect form, regardless of style, whereas 98% of dudes are warming up with half squats and barely hitting quarter squat depth by their top sets. It’s comical. (I guess touching one’s chest on flat bench is out of style now as well?) Well tonight there was an exception who was a case in point. Dude never went over 185 and his sets were all in the 12 rep range if I was counting correctly. He was starting off bodybuilder style, getting deep in the hole but stopping the ascent just short of lockout at the top for the first half or so of the set. When he tired, he rest/paused out the remainder of the set. His legs were fucking enormous.

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#98

Post by Hanley » Fri May 27, 2022 6:25 pm

Compound Lifts = awesome

Isolation Lifts = awesome

###

I'm hearing/intuiting (edit with enthusiasm):

rule-set 1) if your torso/femur ratio hugs normal, then you can probably get away with compound movements for hypertrophy of primary extensors.
rule-set 2) if your torso/femur ratio is (hand wave) not- freaky, but not-normal, do the compound movement, then some isolation work on primary extensors that aren't fatigued
rule set 3) if your torso/femur ratio is freaky, then do compound movement to high fatigue of of fatigue-bottle-necked extensors, then whack the fuck out of under-stimulated extensor groups with isolation movements?

^ difference between 2 & 3 is proportion of compound/isolation

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#99

Post by janoycresva » Fri May 27, 2022 6:32 pm

Hanley wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:25 pm Compound Lifts = awesome

Isolation Lifts = awesome

###

I'm hearing/intuiting (edit with enthusiasm):

rule-set 1) if your torso/femur ratio hugs normal, then you can probably get away with compound movements for hypertrophy of primary extensors.
rule-set 2) if your torso/femur ratio is (hand wave) not- freaky, but not-normal, do the compound movement, then some isolation work on primary extensors that aren't fatigued
rule set 3) if your torso/femur ratio is freaky, then do compound movement to high fatigue of of fatigue-bottle-necked extensors, then whack the fuck out of under-stimulated extensor groups with isolation movements?

^ difference between 2 & 3 is proportion of compound/isolation
exactly what I’m doing now with a butchered version of your 3 week general strength program, I cut the squats when I start to feel my erectors fatigue and then hit belt squats for a few high rep sets

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Re: Experiences on BBM Templates

#100

Post by Hanley » Fri May 27, 2022 7:11 pm

janoycresva wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:32 pm
Hanley wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:25 pm Compound Lifts = awesome

Isolation Lifts = awesome

###

I'm hearing/intuiting (edit with enthusiasm):

rule-set 1) if your torso/femur ratio hugs normal, then you can probably get away with compound movements for hypertrophy of primary extensors.
rule-set 2) if your torso/femur ratio is (hand wave) not- freaky, but not-normal, do the compound movement, then some isolation work on primary extensors that aren't fatigued
rule set 3) if your torso/femur ratio is freaky, then do compound movement to high fatigue of of fatigue-bottle-necked extensors, then whack the fuck out of under-stimulated extensor groups with isolation movements?

^ difference between 2 & 3 is proportion of compound/isolation
exactly what I’m doing now
Is it.....working?

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