Anti Government Militia
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Anti Government Militia
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 922301002/
Among other things, FBI has communications they were disgruntled about closing gyms...
Among other things, FBI has communications they were disgruntled about closing gyms...
Last edited by Cellist on Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anti Government Militia
Can't wait for Trump to pardon them in 3....2....1
- jwilson625
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Re: Anti Government Militia
So much for standing back and standing by
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- Edging Lord
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Re: Anti Government Militia
Oh, this isn't the sign-up sheet?
Edit: Sounds like the FBI wasn't the mastermind of the plot for once.
Edit: Sounds like the FBI wasn't the mastermind of the plot for once.
- Root
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Re: Anti Government Militia
Holy shit. The bridge they were gonna blow up is like 20 minutes from my house.
- aurelius
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Re: Anti Government Militia
I have thought for some time many of these militias are serious threats. It is gonna take one of them pulling off an attack for people to take them seriously.
- TimK
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- aurelius
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Re: Anti Government Militia
If you are referring to Timothy McVeigh, he was a lone wolf terrorist and not part of a larger group. My understanding is that he did not subscribe to a particular ethos or creed. McVeigh was just crazy. Similar to the guy that flew his prop plane into the IRS building in Texas.
That is in stark contrast to the dozens of militia groups that are essentially separatist terrorist organizations.
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Re: Anti Government Militia
My memory of McVeigh is that he was pretty 'ideological' and not crazy in these sense of delusional or schizophrenic. There's a play about him and Gore Vidal that characterizes him in this way.
It is true that he wasn't acting as part of a larger group AFAIK.
ETA - I should say "organized group" I guess because he did have a conspirator.
It is true that he wasn't acting as part of a larger group AFAIK.
ETA - I should say "organized group" I guess because he did have a conspirator.
- zappey1
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Re: Anti Government Militia
Said in the article undercover FBI agents were involved.BostonRugger wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:42 am Oh, this isn't the sign-up sheet?
Edit: Sounds like the FBI wasn't the mastermind of the plot for once.
That's the thing with lots of these stories a fair bit of entrapment/ set up by the FBI is involved. I highly doubt these knuckle heads would have gotten out of the talking phase without a undercover FBI push.
I remember about a month of so ago a group of geniuses thought Hamas was going to help them attack some targets. Turns out it was the FBI .
Look like reeducation camp for this group
- TimK
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Re: Anti Government Militia
I don’t remember the details but I thought he was involved with a militia at one point, although the attack wasn’t carried out with their help. Could be wrong though.dw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:26 am My memory of McVeigh is that he was pretty 'ideological' and not crazy in these sense of delusional or schizophrenic. There's a play about him and Gore Vidal that characterizes him in this way.
It is true that he wasn't acting as part of a larger group AFAIK.
ETA - I should say "organized group" I guess because he did have a conspirator.
And I thought he viewed his actions as vengeance for Waco, or something like that.
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Re: Anti Government Militia
I strenuously doubt that we'll ever know for real. There's a long history of our FBI making use of agents provocateurhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... rovocateur against groups organized around certain ideologies. But like the Black Panthers and radical Islamic groups. Not sure if that's likely to be the case here considering who's at the top of the DoJ.zappey1 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:05 amSaid in the article undercover FBI agents were involved.BostonRugger wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:42 am
Edit: Sounds like the FBI wasn't the mastermind of the plot for once.
That's the thing with lots of these stories a fair bit of entrapment/ set up by the FBI is involved. I highly doubt these knuckle heads would have gotten out of the talking phase without a undercover FBI push.
- Root
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Re: Anti Government Militia
Lots of chatter in my FB bubble about how it's racist to call them a "militia" instead of "terrorists" or "gang."
Am I racist if I think that a militia is fundamentally different from a terrorist group?
Am I racist if I think that a militia is fundamentally different from a terrorist group?
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Re: Anti Government Militia
What do you think is the fundamental difference, both generally and in this case?
- zappey1
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Re: Anti Government Militia
Double post
Last edited by zappey1 on Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
- zappey1
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Re: Anti Government Militia
The FBI has some crazy schemes to catch people up with little to no oversight and a virtually unlimited budget. If that is not a recipe for abuse IDK what is.AdamSkillin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:35 amI strenuously doubt that we'll ever know for real. There's a long history of our FBI making use of agents provocateurhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... rovocateur against groups organized around certain ideologies. But like the Black Panthers and radical Islamic groups. Not sure if that's likely to be the case here considering who's at the top of the DoJ.zappey1 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:05 amSaid in the article undercover FBI agents were involved.BostonRugger wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:42 am
Edit: Sounds like the FBI wasn't the mastermind of the plot for once.
That's the thing with lots of these stories a fair bit of entrapment/ set up by the FBI is involved. I highly doubt these knuckle heads would have gotten out of the talking phase without a undercover FBI push.
Here is the Hamas story:
https://theintercept.com/2020/09/10/fbi ... loo-hamas/
SpoilerShow
Human Rights Watch has critized these stings for often targeting “those with intellectual and mental disabilities and the indigent.” The FBI has long defended its practices by saying that stings allow federal law enforcement to find would-be terrorists before real terrorist groups have the opportunity, but, as in the Boojahideen case, the threats often seem to be concocted by the FBI out of whole cloth in order to initiate charges.
fear that the bureau is throwing a lot of effort into resource-intensive sting operations that target only the most gullible individuals in the movement,” German said, “rather than investigating the multiple examples of far-right violence that are happening in plain sight.
- Root
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Re: Anti Government Militia
I think militias are for the specific purpose of overthrowing the members' own government (or being able to if necessary.)
Terrorists commit violence to inspire terror in an effort to combat an idea. Often strongly tied to religion.
Unabomber and McVeigh were terrorists. This group was a militia. I'm sure there's gray area in there, but I do think they are different things entirely.
- TimK
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Re: Anti Government Militia
This might shed some light... supposedly McVeigh and Nichols attended a few Michigan Militia meetings before going on to carry out the attack, and the media latched on to that.
https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2015/0 ... 0_yea.html
The OKC bombing wasn't a "militia attack" per se, but the perpetrators were definitely part of that scene...
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Re: Anti Government Militia
Oxford language via google:Root wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:21 amI think militias are for the specific purpose of overthrowing the members' own government (or being able to if necessary.)
Terrorists commit violence to inspire terror in an effort to combat an idea. Often strongly tied to religion.
Unabomber and McVeigh were terrorists. This group was a militia. I'm sure there's gray area in there, but I do think they are different things entirely.
(1) a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
"creating a militia was no answer to the army's manpower problem"
(2) a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities in opposition to a regular army.
(3) all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.
Merriam Webster comes closer to your definition, but would not seem to entirely support your distinction:
3: a private group of armed individuals that operates as a paramilitary force and is typically motivated by a political or religious ideology
specifically : such a group that aims to defend individual rights against government authority that is perceived as oppressive