What’s on Netflix?!?

[hector]

House of Dragons was gut wrenching to watch. I mean, aside from all the self loathing for signing up for HBO Max at the last minute just to watch.

That shitty? Perhaps my wife was right... she's expecting it to be dog shit.

No,I actually thought the show was quite good. I'd forgotten just how graphic GoT was. Some scenes were really hard to watch, emotionally as well.

Maybe I'm getting weaker as I get older, but I had the exact same experience. A few scenes I almost turned it off. On thr whole, I liked the show and think it has great potential.

[aurelius]

I'm expecting crap but hoping for gold and after the first episode still feel like it could go either way.

Agreed. The episode is promising. Let's see it deliver.

There was some entertaining carnage but also a few scenes that seemed emotionally gut-wrenching or graphically violent just for the sake of "trauma porn" that I didn't really care for.

I do think there is a place for graphic depictions of violence, rape, and so forth. Honestly showing the reality of these acts forces people to face them for what they are. Simply alluding to them or fading to black can be a huge disservice and ultimately trivialize graphic violence. It should make us uncomfortable watching someone be maimed or raped.

A scene that was very graphic but necessary was the killing of the soldier with the bayonet in Saving Private Ryan. The intimacy of it was horrific. To think about that scene still makes me so uncomfortable that I squirm. In general, Saving Private Ryan did an excellent job of graphic depictions of violence that was art.

That being said, the line between art and trauma porn is a very fine one.

SpoilerShow

IMO, this episode exhibited both forms of graphic scenes. The scene of the Gold Cloaks maiming people quickly devolved into trauma porn that felt unearned and unnecessary. I thought the brutality of the scene of the forced Cesarean was well done*. That seen should have left you horrified. Simply alluding to the forced Cesarean would have dulled if not entirely removed the emotional impact of the King's decision. We are too used to art that does not challenge us and is only intended to comfort/entertain us.

*The feminist arguments from GoT seem to carryover to this show. I don't know what to tell people. Most of human history women had little to no rights or status. Including the time period of GoT is inspired by. If people are offended by the lack of agency women are given in this fiction inspired by the Wars of the Roses, then don't watch it.

[KyleSchuant]

A scene that was very graphic but necessary was the killing of the soldier with the bayonet in Saving Private Ryan. The intimacy of it was horrific. To think about that scene still makes me so uncomfortable that I squirm. In general, Saving Private Ryan did an excellent job of graphic depictions of violence that was art.

I didn't have a problem with the graphicness of the scene, but narratively it was shit. Upham had insisted they spare the German PW, and the PW comes back to kill Mellish while Upham stands watching doing nothing. Later Upham kills the German who is again unarmed. The moral of that part of the story was that people who have common decency and follow the laws of war are actually cowards who get their comrades killed, and they can only redeem themselves by killing the enemy, regardless of the laws and customs of war. It was a similar narrative in much of Fury. It had about as much narrative depth as Kelly's Heroes, but was much less fun.

[aurelius]

A scene that was very graphic but necessary was the killing of the soldier with the bayonet in Saving Private Ryan. The intimacy of it was horrific. To think about that scene still makes me so uncomfortable that I squirm. In general, Saving Private Ryan did an excellent job of graphic depictions of violence that was art.

I didn't have a problem with the graphicness of the scene, but narratively it was shit. Upham had insisted they spare the German PW, and the PW comes back to kill Mellish while Upham stands watching doing nothing. Later Upham kills the German who is again unarmed. The moral of that part of the story was that people who have common decency and follow the laws of war are actually cowards who get their comrades killed, and they can only redeem themselves by killing the enemy, regardless of the laws and customs of war. It was a similar narrative in much of Fury. It had about as much narrative depth as Kelly's Heroes, but was much less fun.

I agree regarding that story arc. Ultimately I think Spielberg didn’t want people hating that guy so allowed the character to redeem himself. Easily the weakest part of the movie.

As a stand-alone scene, Spielberg used intimacy and created a far more horrifying and emotionally impactful scene driving home the horror of war. I would describe that scene as traumatic and necessary. As it reconnects the audience, who at this point have had 2 hours of guys blowing each other up, with the horror of what they are witnessing.

[KyleSchuant]

Ultimately I think Spielberg didn’t want people hating that guy so allowed the character to redeem himself. Easily the weakest part of the movie.

If they wanted to keep the German being made PW, the character redeeming himself could have been achieved by - well, remember the thing: we blindfold you and send you on your way, surrender to the nearest Allied unit. So they do so, and later see him sitting by the side of the road with a bunch of other prisoners looking beaten and tired but calm as an Allied soldier guards them and swaps cigarettes. Because this ultimately is "redemption" in war, that former enemies become friends.

In war, there is a place and time for the guy who fires the flamethrower and says, "let the bastards burn!" and there's a place and time for the guy who insists on mercy. Both are needed, both are part of war. This is why wars can have a Christmas truce, but can also have a Treblinka.

This would be a more narratively complex story, which I believe audiences can handle even if directors can't.

[ChrisMcCarthy1979]

I like what I've seen of HOD so far...having Matt Smith in it isn't as distracting as I thought!

[mikeylikey]

narratively it was shit. Upham had insisted they spare the German PW, and the PW comes back to kill Mellish while Upham stands watching doing nothing. Later Upham kills the German who is again unarmed. The moral of that part of the story was that people who have common decency and follow the laws of war are actually cowards who get their comrades killed, and they can only redeem themselves by killing the enemy, regardless of the laws and customs of war. It was a similar narrative in much of Fury. It had about as much narrative depth as Kelly's Heroes, but was much less fun.

I have great news for you

[Hiphopapotamus]

narratively it was shit. Upham had insisted they spare the German PW, and the PW comes back to kill Mellish while Upham stands watching doing nothing. Later Upham kills the German who is again unarmed. The moral of that part of the story was that people who have common decency and follow the laws of war are actually cowards who get their comrades killed, and they can only redeem themselves by killing the enemy, regardless of the laws and customs of war. It was a similar narrative in much of Fury. It had about as much narrative depth as Kelly's Heroes, but was much less fun.

I have great news for you

I think Willie comes back to kill Tom Hanks at the end? And then Upham murders extra-judicially kills him. But yeah, not Mellish.

[mouse]

American Horror Stories Pt II if anyone else is watching

Dollhouse

SpoilerShow

Yo this episode was actually pretty decent, and had a fairly unexpected twist/tie in to the larger series that was pretty cool. We all knew she was gonna wind up doll-ified but nifty that she turned out to be a witch. Does being a witch allow you to survive being put through a human sized injection mold/ceramic doll making thing? Guess so... my excitement for the series is high at this point.

Aura

SpoilerShow

Predictable, but most of these one-off episodes are, it reminded me of a short story you might get from those Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark books. The dude attempting to lie about how his fiance died, only to IMMEDIATELY confess to killing her and just going full murderer on his current gf/fiance/wife was unintentionally hilarious. My excitement is tempered, but hopeful.

Drive

SpoilerShow

Weakest entry yet and the most predictable unless you're my wife I guess. Called it halfway through that it was going to go Dexter on us and THEY were the killer(s). Stupid episode with lazy (bad) writing. Why did the Jeep guy have a bunch of newspaper clippings about the serial killer victims? I kept waiting for him to be a cop or something and it never paid off. Dumb as shit. My excitement is diminishing.

Milkmaids

SpoilerShow

Aaaaaaaand they just couldn't help themselves. Of course there had to be some sort of stupid 'covid' episode that shoe horns in a bunch of 'follow the science' vs 'Trump faithfuls' bullshit. This episode is easily some of the most hamfisted garbage writing I've seen from a show that isn't exactly known for it's subtlety in the first place. The ending is again laughable with how quickly the father character switches his allegiances. Bro, the minister JUST STABBED YOU IN THE STOMACH for trying to protect your prostitute baby mama and now all of a sudden it's a travesty that she killed him in self defense because she found out she also enjoyed some muff-pie? Whatever. Kid... "oh hey you're my real mom? Cool, let me stab you to death because you milked a cow or something". My excitement is now completely depleted.

Bloody Mary

SpoilerShow

Started out well enough, on par with episode 2. Incomplete grade because I fell asleep. In my groggy haze to turn the TV off my wife explained the ending and it sounded dumb.

[Allentown]

Watched two episodes of the Amazon Lord of the Rings. I liked it. Not enough to go out of my way to watch it on someone else's Amazon account, but very confused why all the hate. Unless it is one of those "turbolasers don't shoot in an arc" kind of things that violate the established rules of the universe. But I read LotR and Hobbit lots of times. Not enough to be a superfan, but nothing bothered me?

[aurelius]

Watched two episodes of the Amazon Lord of the Rings. I liked it. Not enough to go out of my way to watch it on someone else's Amazon account, but very confused why all the hate. Unless it is one of those "turbolasers don't shoot in an arc" kind of things that violate the established rules of the universe. But I read LotR and Hobbit lots of times. Not enough to be a superfan, but nothing bothered me?

Apparently there were no black people in the minds of many Tolkien fans and adding anyone with beige skin tone is somehow ruining everything Tolkien. Also, Galadriel has a different temperament than the Galadriel in the LoTR several thousand years later.

If meteor man is

SpoilerShow

Gandalf

I will be pissed.

[GlasgowJock]

American Horror Stories Pt II if anyone else is watching

Dollhouse

SpoilerShow

Yo this episode was actually pretty decent, and had a fairly unexpected twist/tie in to the larger series that was pretty cool. We all knew she was gonna wind up doll-ified but nifty that she turned out to be a witch. Does being a witch allow you to survive being put through a human sized injection mold/ceramic doll making thing? Guess so... my excitement for the series is high at this point.

I renewed my Disney plus subscription for a month thinking all of the episodes were out on that platform in the UK. How wrong I was (to be released every Wednesday, wtf?)

I enjoyed 'Doll House' though as a fan of the AHS franchise overall I'm easily pleased. I knew she was 'one of those people' following the toy fire truck scene.

I tried watching the first episode of the LotR over the weekend and gave up after 30 minutes. I appreciate they're setting story arcs/ plots, character development etc though I cba coming to grips with it all one episode/ week. Visually it is impressive and the fight scenes were pretty cool.

On reflection I didn't binge GoT until season 4 so it was a lot easier getting into it. Probably do the same with the above.

[aurelius]

On reflection I didn't binge GoT until season 4 so it was a lot easier getting into it. Probably do the same with the above.

This is probably wise. Shows with a lot of characters and story arcs feel 'incomplete' in single episode installments. I'll add that the second episode is stronger. It starts to develop the characters versus just introduce characters/place/setting.

[5hout]

Watched two episodes of the Amazon Lord of the Rings. I liked it. Not enough to go out of my way to watch it on someone else's Amazon account, but very confused why all the hate. Unless it is one of those "turbolasers don't shoot in an arc" kind of things that violate the established rules of the universe. But I read LotR and Hobbit lots of times. Not enough to be a superfan, but nothing bothered me?

Apparently there were no black people in the minds of many Tolkien fans and adding anyone with beige skin tone is somehow ruining everything Tolkien. Also, Galadriel has a different temperament than the Galadriel in the LoTR several thousand years later.

I didn't watch (and have no plans to watch, for the same reason I'm not watching WoT:TV Edition).

There are 16ish books comprising the History of the Middle Earth (13 in a series called HoME). They are not narrative works. They are loosely connected scraps of prose stories, poems, epics and random thoughts. If you're a fan of this material, and you ground your way through it/taking notes/diving into it as if you were learning the history of Rome or something, why would you watch a bastardized TV version that randomly selects chunks of material from across the series and synthesize it into a fantasy TV series? Is there any possible way it could live up to the source material? No.

Peter Jackson did a damn good job (with LoTR) and even he betrayed the vision in stupid ways (army of the dead/anduril toward the end instead of at the start (missing the point that he gets it reforged when he accepts his role as someone making the news and not just doing random crap)). It's, imo, just not material meant to be turned into this medium.

I'm sure they are retconning the heck out of the source material, b/c there is no consistent story in the source material. Some things occur 4 or 5 times in different ways as Tolkien tried to find a version he liked. You simply cannot create a consistent narrative arc out of it, without contradicting plenty of things b/c the source is in and of itself contradictory.

This is probably too much credit given to idiots online, but for me, I'm done with TV/Movie adaptations of beloved stories. Just not worth it.

[GlasgowJock]

This is probably wise. Shows with a lot of characters and story arcs feel 'incomplete' in single episode installments. I'll add that the second episode is stronger. It starts to develop the characters versus just introduce characters/place/setting.

Yea it was the same for TWD too; think my wife and I didn't start watching it until season 3/4 at which point you could binge through several seasons of awesome in a short period.

[Hiphopapotamus]

Watched two episodes of the Amazon Lord of the Rings. I liked it. Not enough to go out of my way to watch it on someone else's Amazon account, but very confused why all the hate. Unless it is one of those "turbolasers don't shoot in an arc" kind of things that violate the established rules of the universe. But I read LotR and Hobbit lots of times. Not enough to be a superfan, but nothing bothered me?

Apparently there were no black people in the minds of many Tolkien fans and adding anyone with beige skin tone is somehow ruining everything Tolkien. Also, Galadriel has a different temperament than the Galadriel in the LoTR several thousand years later.

If meteor man is

SpoilerShow

Gandalf

I will be pissed.

I was thinking

SpoilerShow

Saruman since he was the original head of the White Council so he might have been first to ME?

[aurelius]

I was thinking

SpoilerShow

Saruman since he was the original head of the White Council so he might have been first to ME?

Per canon, the wizards (angels) were not sent to Middle Earth until after the defeat of Sauron by the Alliance of Elves and Men.

[JonA]

I really enjoyed the rings of power so far. I think they've hit the feel of it just about right. The elves are a bunch of chads, the dwarves are beginning to be strangely suspicious of everything, and the humans are a bunch of hoveled serfs. You can literally feel the fissures in society in which Sauron will work his deceit.

I hope they are able to refrain from having a hard reveal of the identity of Sauron. I think it adds quite a bit to the story and is consistent with the lore.

[omaniphil]

I really enjoyed the rings of power so far. I think they've hit the feel of it just about right. The elves are a bunch of chads, the dwarves are beginning to be strangely suspicious of everything, and the humans are a bunch of hoveled serfs. You can literally feel the fissures in society in which Sauron will work his deceit.

I hope they are able to refrain from having a hard reveal of the identity of Sauron. I think it adds quite a bit to the story and is consistent with the lore.

I've also really enjoyed it. First episode was a little slow, but it had me hooked by the second episode. The show looks like the 700 million dollars reportedly spent on the season was spent well.

Also, Galadriel has a different temperament than the Galadriel in the LoTR several thousand years later.

You're right that her temperament is different than LOTR, but if you've read any of the additional material that @5hout was talking about, Galadriel's temperament is pretty inline with how Tolkien had conceived her. She was one of the ringleaders of the Noldor rebellion against Valinor in the Silmarillion. Also, here's how Tolkien describes her in the chapter "Galadriel and Celeborn" from Unfinished Tales:


Regarding Meteor Man

SpoilerShow

I have no idea who it might be. I think it pretty clearly isn't Sauron, since it seems the dwarves already have one of their rings (the box Durin III and Durin IV were peering into at the end of episode 2). From what I know of the licensing deal, they were free to make up characters and story lines as long as they didn't conflict with the canon as described in the Appendices of LOTR. Since Gandalf and the other Istari are definitely mentioned as arriving halfway through the Third Age, I don't think it could be them. I suspect its some other Maiar sent to help from Valinor. I think the boat guy, Halbrand, is more likely to be Sauron, since we know the show is going to deal with Ar-Pharazon's downfall and rebellion, there has to be a way for Sauron to get to Numenor somehow.

[5hout]

[Galadriel stuff]

Here's a 2015 (i.e. long before the current controversy) article discussing Galadriel's ban from Valinor. This is HoME/LoTR at its finest (imo)

https://askmiddlearth.tumblr.com/post/6 ... the-noldor

And why there is plenty of room both to pick a story where she can return at any time, and to pick a story where she's banned until she calms the f down in the 3rd age. IMO, the joy of Tolkien is in the debate/thinking on it, reading the letters and not in one story.