Average 2 Savage 2

[xuerebx]

I'll be doing the hypertrophy template after I finish my second cycle of GZCLP and I'm looking forward to it. Anyway, I read through the whole thread and there's some really good advice here especially with respect to the auxiliary exercises!

[GrainsAndGains]

I've been running the SBS Hypertrophy template for two weeks and man, I had forgotten how much high-rep squatting sucks, even at the 65-70% range you start at. You get the weird experience of doing sets that are intensely demanding from a cardiovascular perspective yet not really that close to failure. I did SSB front squats last week at 165 in sets of 12 to start. First two sets were fine, the third set sucked intensely, I was huffing and puffing, then I finished with set of 20 that wasn't a true AMRAP. I'm increasingly not sure how useful the "to failure" metric is when the limiting factor is cardiovascular suckage rather than muscle failure.

[JimRiley]

I've been running the SBS Hypertrophy template for two weeks and man, I had forgotten how much high-rep squatting sucks, even at the 65-70% range you start at. You get the weird experience of doing sets that are intensely demanding from a cardiovascular perspective yet not really that close to failure. I did SSB front squats last week at 165 in sets of 12 to start. First two sets were fine, the third set sucked intensely, I was huffing and puffing, then I finished with set of 20 that wasn't a true AMRAP. I'm increasingly not sure how useful the "to failure" metric is when the limiting factor is cardiovascular suckage rather than muscle failure.

Yeah, I did weeks 1-17 of that template and felt pretty much the same way. There's probably a conditioning effect to those long sets, akin to doing hard 1-minute-plus intervals, but it's not clear how well that carries over to hypertrophy, especially if the cardio aspect becomes the limiting factor. To be honest, I've seen more noticeable gains over the last couple months from just doing some targeted bro stuff.

[dw]

I am bulking again doing a modified version of the strength template with a lot of accessories (I guess you could call it 5-4-3). My goal is hypertrophy but I really just don't care for high rep, high RPE compound movements at this time.

I'm also considering indefinitely postponing the deloads until I feel the need for them.

[houzi]

I started the first two weeks of the hypertrophy temolate and found that my cardio was very much limiting my ability rather than my muscles. I felt more like I had been sprinting rather than lifting. What I did instead was I switched the Main Movements rep scheme to the same as the strength RTF template, but kept all the Secondary Movements as they are on the hypertrophy template. This way Im not limited by cardiovascular ability for my main squats, but then i can go all out on leg press and RDLs (for example). Im just finishing week 6 now and it has been a ton of fun. Would very much reccomend if the high rep main movements are killing you.

[sklunk]

I had the same problem with squats when I ran it (cardio failure instead of muscle failure), but my quads got more jacked than they’ve ever been, and that was just squatting twice a week with no quad accessories.

[Tommy1507]

I am also giving AtS2 a run. While purchasing, i was asked for my reddit name. Luckily i had an old account and was added immediately.
I find all the possibilities and the flexibility that comes with the program quite overwhelming. I have no experiences with any variations and any rep ranges over 5 but i am very excited for a change. No Minimum Effective Dose, just change everything.

I have no clue how the program builder works. Reddit says just copy from the program tab. But i'll give the vanilla version a try anyways.

I have choosen following auxiliaries as i have limited equipment and don't want too add too many variations that i have to learn right from the start.
Squat: Squat, Paused squat
Bench: CG bench, bench
Deadlift: Paused Deadlift
OHP: Incline bench
Adding some rows and chins (density block or EMOM) for upper back, and some curls and lateral raises. That should keep me busy.

Think i stick with the reps to failure and 4 days on the first run, so the workouts don't take too long. I am curious how 4 full body workouts with some exercises on consecutive days feel.

[Wayne]

I am also giving AtS2 a run. While purchasing, i was asked for my reddit name. Luckily i had an old account and was added immediately.
I find all the possibilities and the flexibility that comes with the program quite overwhelming. I have no experiences with any variations and any rep ranges over 5 but i am very excited for a change. No Minimum Effective Dose, just change everything.

I have no clue how the program builder works. Reddit says just copy from the program tab. But i'll give the vanilla version a try anyways.

I have choosen following auxiliaries as i have limited equipment and don't want too add too many variations that i have to learn right from the start.
Squat: Squat, Paused squat
Bench: CG bench, bench
Deadlift: Paused Deadlift
OHP: Incline bench
Adding some rows and chins (density block or EMOM) for upper back, and some curls and lateral raises. That should keep me busy.

Think i stick with the reps to failure and 4 days on the first run, so the workouts don't take too long. I am curious how 4 full body workouts with some exercises on consecutive days feel.

Main comment is that the paused work, for me, would be a bit of a drag in the higher rep ranges. Is your main squat style low bar? If so LBBS with front squat might work well. I have LBBS / front squat / high bar in my AtS hypertrophy template right now - probably no need for 3x squat variations though. For deadlift I have convention deadlift then RDL.

Do you have access to dumbbells? I like DB bench and DB press as secondary movements right now, but you may not. I did a lot of CGBP and incline press last year so maybe I just needed a change!

[Tommy1507]

Main comment is that the paused work, for me, would be a bit of a drag in the higher rep ranges. Is your main squat style low bar? If so LBBS with front squat might work well. I have LBBS / front squat / high bar in my AtS hypertrophy template right now - probably no need for 3x squat variations though. For deadlift I have convention deadlift then RDL.

Do you have access to dumbbells? I like DB bench and DB press as secondary movements right now, but you may not. I did a lot of CGBP and incline press last year so maybe I just needed a change!

Thanks for the input. I really don't know what to choose as auxiliaries.

I do high bar squats since i started training and i don't think it makes sense to change that now. I saw in week 3 or 4 auxilaries call for 13 reps in the last set (strength - Rtf) and to progress you need to do more. All i have done till now are some paused squats or 3-0-3 slow squats. I think they both suck for so many reps.
Maybe i just stick with 2 times regular high bar squatting per week. When i have more euqipment in the future i could think of belt squats or pin squats as an auxiliary.

Same with the deadlift. Maybe just do regular deads twice a week or replace the paused deadlift with RDL.

I also have no dumbbells right now. Don't want to buy overpriced shit right now. I hope the prices normalize in some months. Right now i have 5 pressing slots (1 bench + 2 aux; 1 ohp + 1 aux). My upper body definitely needs some attention, but i am also thinking to delete one. But i think i'll just start with 5 and see how it works.

[Wayne]

I’d probably do high bar / front squat and deadlift / RDL in your situation, but I’m not an expert. Split squats or lunges are also worth a shout but I dislike them so always leave them out!

I also wouldn’t worry about hitting upper with 5x slots as I find recovery easier there. For reference I do flat DB, flat BB, wide grip + DB OHP then OHP on the 4 day hypertrophy. On top of that I’ve added flys and delt work as well as the usual arm bro stuff so the more the merrier for me.

[xuerebx]

For reference I do flat DB, flat BB, wide grip + DB OHP then OHP on the 4 day hypertrophy. On top of that I’ve added flys and delt work as well as the usual arm bro stuff so the more the merrier for me.

I assume you mean on different days, not all on the same day? I'm interested to see a snippet of your 4 days' exercises, if you don't mind (as I too will soon be doing the 4 day hypertrophy programme, so I'm gathering ideas).

[houzi]

For reference I do flat DB, flat BB, wide grip + DB OHP then OHP on the 4 day hypertrophy. On top of that I’ve added flys and delt work as well as the usual arm bro stuff so the more the merrier for me.

I assume you mean on different days, not all on the same day? I'm interested to see a snippet of your 4 days' exercises, if you don't mind (as I too will soon be doing the 4 day hypertrophy programme, so I'm gathering ideas).

Not the person you asked, but Ive been doing a mix of strength template RTF for the Main lifts and hypertrophy template RTF with Auxiliary lifts. Rearranged the movements so that it fits a Lower Upper split. Ive been enjoying it a lot.

Day 1: Squat, Leg Press, RDL
Day 2: Bench Press*, Incline Press
Day 3: Deadlift, Tempo Squat
Day 4: Bench Press, Slingshot Bench, DB shoulder press

*switched OHP for more bench press

[xuerebx]

Thanks for the suggestions man!

[Wayne]

For reference I do flat DB, flat BB, wide grip + DB OHP then OHP on the 4 day hypertrophy. On top of that I’ve added flys and delt work as well as the usual arm bro stuff so the more the merrier for me.

I assume you mean on different days, not all on the same day? I'm interested to see a snippet of your 4 days' exercises, if you don't mind (as I too will soon be doing the 4 day hypertrophy programme, so I'm gathering ideas).

Sorry for the delay. I have it set up as follows:

Day 1
Squat - LBBS
DB Bench
RDL
Pull-ups (BW)

Day 2
Bench Press
Front Squat
DB OHP
Usually add curls & tricep BB in here

Day 3
Deadlift
Wide grip bench
One arm row
DB fly

Day 4
OHP BB
High bar squat
Pull-ups (weighted)
DB fly
Usually add curls & tricep BB in here

In addition I try to do 2x conditioning / GPP sessions usually 1x HIIT (10-20 mins of Echo bike sprint / abs) and 1xLISS (45 minute walk at reasonable pace). If the weather sucks I will just do HIIT twice. I try and do additional delt, arm & ab work on these days too. I will often throw some extra ab work in if I get spare time at the end of any session.

Each session takes around an hour. Hopefully this helps - I also found the blank template quite daunting. The Reddit wasn't overly helpful either unfortunately. May advice would be to avoid analysis paralysis and get cracking - I set up slightly different to the above for accessories & back work but after a week or two found the above rhythm fitted better.

[xuerebx]

Thanks for providing the details man, I appreciate it! 1hr - 1.25hrs per session is just about right for me, and as for conditioning I usually go for 1 hour fast walks twice a week.

It's interesting how everyone puts his own twist to the accessories to fit his style. I've extracted some good information from this thread which should give me some good ideas on how to set the hypertrophy routine up when I start running it. Cheers!

[Wayne]

Thanks for providing the details man, I appreciate it! 1hr - 1.25hrs per session is just about right for me, and as for conditioning I usually go for 1 hour fast walks twice a week.

It's interesting how everyone puts his own twist to the accessories to fit his style. I've extracted some good information from this thread which should give me some good ideas on how to set the hypertrophy routine up when I start running it. Cheers!

No problem - I had the same analysis paralysis when setting it up myself. I’d be keen to hear how you get on so once you’re running it feel free to share your set up.

As I say I set mine up a little different initially but naturally found myself with more time for accessories on days 2 & 4 so they picked up a few more of the accessories compared to the other days. I would say not to be afraid of doing a similar reshuffle in the first few weeks if needed.

Also I would go with the conservative 1RM particularly for squats and deadlifts. 90% roughly is a good start +/- depending on your strength etc.

Agree that everyone puts their own slant on it - it’s very much a general framework that can be tweaked to whatever training style you are after. I didn’t appreciate that initially and was a bit frustrated I couldn’t just pick a cookie cutter template out of the directory and start training. Once you get past that I realised what a great tool it could be. It’s basically just a way of adding progression and blocks to any workout set up (exercise selection, training frequency, goals) you like which is perfect for me as programming progressions and proper blocks are the bit I struggle with the most!

I can see myself running this in one form or another for quite a while. I really liked the 3wk strength program from Hanley so I think I will do that for strength blocks as I did see some good results from it previously, but some form of AtS is likely to be driving the rest this year for me.

[xuerebx]

Sure I'll post my setup once I've programmed it. I think I'll have a back exercise each workout day and similar to yours I'd like to hit my arms directly twice a week as they're my weak point (well, actually my whole body is a weak point given I'm a novice, but my arms especially). I found I respond better to higher volume.

I get what you mean on analysis paralysis - it's something that i tend to do, obsessing on the finer details. Need to keep the Pareto principle in mind

[Tommy1507]

I've completed the first week of the reps to failure template and it was quite fun:
My setup is:
day 1:
T1 Squat
T2 CG Bench
T2 RDL
Chins

day 2:
T1 Bench
T2 Pin Squat (maybe change them with the fronts squats slot on day 4, depending where i have off days)
T2 Incline Press
Rows

day 3:
T1 Deadlift
T2 Bench
Chins

day 4:
T1 OHP
T2 Front Squat(never done them before, i plan to do an 5x5 LPbtill my shoulders have adapted to the pain)
Rows

The only thing that sucked was the deadlift AMRAP. My form and timing felt completely off at the last reps. But i'll try them again the next weeks before i change them. Pin squat AMRAP, which i feared before, was much better then i thought.

Doing some variations for the first time was also fun. Incline press, CG bench and RDL went very good and looked good on video. Front squats also felt and looked good, but even 60kg gave my shoulders cancer. I'll hope i adapt soon to them and i can bump up the weight so my quads have to actually work.

[Tommy1507]

Pin Squat AMRAP always made me nearly thow up. Weird feeling, but i hope they are good for something like hypertrophy or work capacity. My next run will be the original template.

I have finished the third week and the first 4 sets are still so easy that i can complete them with 90 seconds rest for most lifts and beat most rep targets by at least 5 reps. So i am tempted to increase the TM by 10% for the exercises where i started with a too low 1RM.

I would have searched the ats sub at reddit but i am too stupid to use the search function there effectively or the search just sucks.

[Wayne]

Pin Squat AMRAP always made me nearly thow up. Weird feeling, but i hope they are good for something like hypertrophy or work capacity. My next run will be the original template.

I have finished the third week and the first 4 sets are still so easy that i can complete them with 90 seconds rest for most lifts and beat most rep targets by at least 5 reps. So i am tempted to increase the TM by 10% for the exercises where i started with a too low 1RM.

I would have searched the ats sub at reddit but i am too stupid to use the search function there effectively or the search just sucks.

Are you doing a heavyish single before your sets? If you’ve got time then you could add that in. I try and do them every second week for the main lift each day.

From memory I think there is a way to use the single to adjust the training day weights - think the rows are hidden. I’ve not tried it but might work for you.

Personally I’d probably just keep going as it will ramp up quickly if you’re repping put 5+ each time and take the benefit of increased work capacity from nailing large sets with little rest.