The is no dieting. Only nutrition. or This is why you are a Manatee

[aurelius]

It's not just Denver & skinny rich people at ski resorts.
High elevations in West Virginia are skinnier than low elevations in West Virginia. There's not a big difference in culture there.

Yeah I don't buy it. Denver is above 5,000 feet. So the beginning of mild hypoxea. But wouldn't one just be hypoxic for the adaptation period (about two weeks)? So now one would need to formulate the mechanism by which the adaptations to high altitude result in weight loss.

And this is ignoring a simple reality. Everything costs more at high altitude. Including food. Harder to get goods and services in the middle of a mountain range. People may be skinnier because they can't afford to eat like low landers.

Note that this doesn't really apply to Denver as it is outside of the mountain range. And has ample infrastructure to supply it.

Also, there is a correlation between living at higher altitude and higher suicide rates.

[cwd]

Suicide rates at altitude are another fact that points to altitude affecting human emotions and drives.

Why is it implausible that something that causes depression, can also cause reduced hunger?

There are parts of Peru where white women cannot carry babies to term, even if they have lived their whole lives there. They have to move to the lowlands during pregnancy.

[aurelius]

To fully understand your argument, please assign a percentage as to the cause of the correlation of less obesity observed in the general population at higher altitudes.

High altitude
Lifestyle
Other

And at what elevation is that occurring in Peru? I have not heard of women being unable to carry to term in Denver.

[mbasic]

My anecdote, which is authoritative and reliable, is that the one time I went to Colorado I had to do a hell of a lot of walking. You guys have really big properties out there. Going to a wedding? Park here and walk up this hill. Want to go horseback riding? Walk across the field to this barn.

Most of suburban America and most rural America east of the Rockies has by now, since the 1970s, been thoroughly rezoned and rebuilt to avoid walking at all costs. You live here, you shop there, you go to school over there, each location is totally separate and distinct so there's no walking between them, and each requires ample parking close to the building.

And to expound on what ithryn said, most places high in elevation are usually, but not always, fucked up in way of topography.
So walk a lot, AND up and down hill as well.

There was a theory like this to debunk the "Mediterranean Diet."

The study/paper I read showed how Europeans seem to walk a whole lot more than us 'Mericans.

[cwd]

https://www.babycenter.com/404_is-it-tr ... 0304419.bc

Denver is only 5000' altitude. Babies carried to term in Denver are only a little smaller on average than babies at low altitude.
The Altiplano is at 12000' and is mostly in Bolivia, not Peru (sorry, my bad).

Here's an article on hypoxia as a possible treatment for obesity: http://www.exalt-association.org/wp-con ... ws2013.pdf

I'm not saying you are only lean because of oxygen deprivation. You are the exception -- you plan your eating, lift regularly, etc. You would be fine anywhere. For most people who eat what's in front of them and exercise only when forced, altitude makes a big difference.

[aurelius]

https://www.babycenter.com/404_is-it-tr ... 0304419.bc

Denver is only 5000' altitude. Babies carried to term in Denver are only a little smaller on average than babies at low altitude.
The Altiplano is at 12000' and is mostly in Bolivia, not Peru (sorry, my bad).

This would be my real point: Lifestyle would be 95% of it no matter what altitude or climate you are living in exlcuding extremes. Discussing the effect of hypoxia on a people living at 12,000 feet and lumping that population together with a population that lives at 5,000 feet is just nonsensical.

Even if you drive just 30 minutes into the mountains (7,000 foot elevation) you will notice several things. The towns get REALLY small. No night life. Few restaurants. Few amenities. Everything closes at 8 or 9. No big highways or way to easily move goods and services. Gas is really expensive. So is food. This dramatically impacts lifestyle.

I will say this. I started doing probiotics (why not?) and without any change to my routine lost about 5 pounds. I also am on HRT which of course helps.
So who knows?

[perman]

Theme-wise, my post about my "diet"-trials in the Rippened thread preceded this OP by 20 minutes.

#Triggered #OPisanasshole #Sorryforstealinggilchrestshashtagthing

[aurelius]

Theme-wise, my post about my "diet"-trials in the Rippened thread preceded this OP by 20 minutes.

#Triggered #OPisanasshole #Sorryforstealinggilchrestshashtagthing

I know. Your post inspired me.

But I wanted to make fun of you versus giving advice. So I went with the domesticated grazing animal comment.

[perman]

Theme-wise, my post about my "diet"-trials in the Rippened thread preceded this OP by 20 minutes.

#Triggered #OPisanasshole #Sorryforstealinggilchrestshashtagthing

I know. Your post inspired me.

But I wanted to make fun of you versus giving advice. So I went with the domesticated grazing animal comment.

I am actually pleased with my current composition, it has gradually gotten better the last 4 years, and while perhaps in theory you should be able to be ripped within a year, just like you should be able to squat 2xbw within a year, people fight against their own limits. Body weight set points seem to be a real thing (I know Mike Israetel bases his nutritional protocols on them), and incrementally improving your body composition slowly while taking occasional breaks (because the body legitimately fights back because body weight set points because science) seems like a more viable strategy to me than seeing it as a failure if you're a Manatee based on the opinion of some random dude on the internet.

[OCG]

Does this mean I have to actually start tracking my macros now?

Well, shit.

Yes.

So apparently I'm not eating enough macros according to myfitnesspal. Which actually makes sense considering how I've been feeling lately.

So, huzzah, time for more food!

[aurelius]

I am actually pleased with my current composition, it has gradually gotten better the last 4 years, and while perhaps in theory you should be able to be ripped within a year, just like you should be able to squat 2xbw within a year, people fight against their own limits. Body weight set points seem to be a real thing (I know Mike Israetel bases his nutritional protocols on them), and incrementally improving your body composition slowly while taking occasional breaks (because the body legitimately fights back because body weight set points because science) seems like a more viable strategy to me than seeing it as a failure if you're a Manatee based on the opinion of some random dude on the internet.

To be clear, I was only teasing you. There really is no health need to be below 15% or so of body fat. You probably get most of the health benefits at below 20% BF. Getting ripped is a vanity project. I'm single and have no kids so what else am I gonna do with my life? I already tried drinking. I'm not a good alcoholic.

And my post was more about the language and the intent of the language. Dieting sounds like a thing you do for this relatively short period of time. So people routinely make drastic changes to their nutrition (which is really fucking hard on you physically), don't get the results they want, and often end up in worse shape than before they began a diet. And the language around dieting is very negative and self defeating. It makes one feel like a failure for not being able to starve themselves and feel like shit! When taking a broader view and focusing on process and not end results will achieve the result most people want and most people will be able to accomplish it!

I use weightlifting as an example. Think of dieting like an out of shape person doing P90X and expecting to look like the ripped, steroid user that has been lifting their whole lives in the video. We have all seen success in strength training because we made incremental changes to overtime to our lifestyles while being consistent. I was not successful dieting (I walked around above 190 for over a decade until 18 months ago). I did diets and saw my weight fluctuate 5 pounds up and down but no real change. I had to make fundamental lifestyle changes (mainly eating habits at that point) to lose over 10 pounds and keep it off.

The manatee thing goes back to a nutrition thread on the SS Facebook page. Essentially all of the nuthuggers were telling this already overweight guy concerned about getting fatter that he needed to 'eat all he can' and 'lose the weight' later to max out LP. I advised the guy differently. Just get enough protein, try to eat cleaner (the replace one bad meal a day strategy), and you'll be okay. That was apparently not the correct response. To which I simply pointed out that every one of the guys giving this advice looked like a manatee. The 'lose it later' approach seems to always be given by a guy who never lost it later. And if the OP's goal was to look like a manatee, then follow their advice. Now I just think it is funny. Makes me giggle. What is funnier than calling a weightlifter a cow? A sea cow. Man did those guys get defensive.
Them: "It's more important to me to have a 1100 total."
Me: "At a body weight of 240? I'm 180 and have a 1345 total. Lose some weight you manatee."
I'm juvenile.

[Allentown]

Aww. My total is 1160 at 240...

Press, not bench though.

[perman]

@Aurelius: I think we mostly agree probably. Was about to write something process oriented something until I saw you have that very same term. The OP just gave the impression of a "Do or do not, there is no try" attitude which can be contrasted with a suboptimal process with an acceptable effort and ROI which is how I view my current process.

Edit: Probably have something like a 500 kg total at 93 kg (fuck lbs).

[aurelius]

Aww. My total is 1160 at 240...Press, not bench though.

Nice!

And aesthetics are personal. Like I said: I'm single, no kids, and I will now add vane. So I am trying to shred, man. It is a personal goal.

In the case of the SS manatee fucks, someone states their goal/concern is not to gain more weight and that they would like to lean out a bit. Telling them to GOMAD and lose it later is just bullshit advice. They don't need to do that to get strong. An already overweight person's LP won't be significantly impacted because they aren't running a calorie surplus. It's just bullshit. Bunch of manatee fucks.

@Aurelius: I think we mostly agree probably. Was about to write something process oriented something until I saw you have that very same term. The OP just gave the impression of a "Do or do not, there is no try" attitude which can be contrasted with a suboptimal process with an acceptable effort and ROI which is how I view my current process.

Edit: Probably have something like a 500 kg total at 93 kg (fuck lbs).

I have no idea what that is. So I will just assume you are the strongest man in the world.

[perman]

I have no idea what that is. So I will just assume you are the strongest man in the world.

You sad American...

When we learn something about your silly imperial units, you can learn something about the metric system, 225 lbs = 100kg is a simple rule of thumb.
Our plate algebra goes bar (20 kg)->1 plate (60 kg)->2 plate(100 kg), which is far simpler than 45->135->225.

500 kg is Eddie Hall's landmark deadlift WR btw, so I can total Eddie Hall's deadlift record (not sure whether that sounds impressive).

[Murelli]

I have no idea what that is. So I will just assume you are the strongest man in the world.

500 kg is Eddie Hall's landmark deadlift WR btw, so I can total Eddie Hall's deadlift record (not sure whether that sounds impressive).

100% dependent on the audience. Just don't try to impress Eddie Hall.

[Murelli]

Regarding body fat set points and body fat in general, I'll just leave this quote here for posterity and ease of searching.

Do
Your
Googling.
(cool words: adipocyte apoptosis, de novo lipogenesis)

I don't buy that fat cells don't die out when you lose weight. I believe these guys don't either.

Again, Grade A BS. The path I'm treading: Avatar Nutrition + phasic dieting (cut-reverse-cut-reverse-cut-reverse-maintain and only then start building muscle).

But people can always try cryolipolysis along with increasing your deadlift by 0,453592 kg/year.

ohrealyus can try cryolipolysis and come back to us with his review.

[aurelius]

ohrealyus can try cryolipolysis and come back to us with his review.

If I am going to spend that kind of money, I'll just get lipo.

[Murelli]

ohrealyus can try cryolipolysis and come back to us with his review.

If I am going to spend that kind of money, I'll just get lipo.

https://www.peixeurbano.com.br/rio-de-j ... iolipolise

It's cheap, you're just in the wrong country.

[Les]

And aesthetics are personal. Like I said: I'm single, no kids, and I will now add vane. So I am trying to shred, man. It is a personal goal.

In the case of the SS manatee fucks, someone states their goal/concern is not to gain more weight and that they would like to lean out a bit. Telling them to GOMAD and lose it later is just bullshit advice. They don't need to do that to get strong. An already overweight person's LP won't be significantly impacted because they aren't running a calorie surplus. It's just bullshit. Bunch of manatee fucks.

I agree that larger lifters can get stronger as a newbie and still lose fat. Part of the novice phenomenon is neurological efficiency (just getting good at the lifts). Also having that surplus of fat is going to let you keep getting stronger for most of your LP. I never ran SS exactly, but I did do a LP and have been training for a few years now. When I started I was 6'6" and 360#. I never wanted to lose weight, but I also wasn't interested in gaining weight either. I did a slow recomp where I still weigh about the same (348 right now), but my waist is a lot smaller and my arms/chest/etc. are a lot bigger. And if someone was interested in slowly losing weight while starting to lift, I would probably have them do a modified SS program (still LP), and they would see gains in the gym and weight loss.