Running thread

[augeleven]

The thread was locked and Inthink he crassed his comments. I think the folks at r/running were all like “show your work” with regards to his weekly mileage times runs etc. I guess they wanted to see his Strava log.
I believe him, cuz I want it to be true.

[Hanley]

Goddamnit. Moth to fucking flame.

Now I want to retry Smolov.

Mostly because @jake241983 crushed it.

[augeleven]

I guess in his original post he claimed a sub 5 minute mile and r/fitness running experts did what Reddit experts do...

[jake241983]

Goddamnit. Moth to fucking flame.

Now I want to retry Smolov.

Mostly because @jake241983 crushed it.

Do it. Not training any movements besides bench was the ticket for me. I ran Smolov last year with lackluster results training all three lifts with low bar squats wrecking my elbows.

[Hanley]

Goddamnit. Moth to fucking flame.

Now I want to retry Smolov.

Mostly because jake241983 crushed it.

Do it. Not training any movements besides bench was the ticket for me. I ran Smolov last year with lackluster results training all three lifts with low bar squats wrecking my elbows.

Shit. Totally derailing this thread. I think I'm going to give it a go. The only thing that freaks me out is Day 4. That's like...literally double the session volume I would normally do with 85%. Might start a new thread.

[iamsmu]

Goddamnit. Moth to fucking flame.

Now I want to retry Smolov.

Mostly because jake241983 crushed it.

Do it. Not training any movements besides bench was the ticket for me. I ran Smolov last year with lackluster results training all three lifts with low bar squats wrecking my elbows.

Shit. Totally derailing this thread. I think I'm going to give it a go. The only thing that freaks me out is Day 4. That's like...literally double the session volume I would normally do with 85%. Might start a new thread.

How about day 4 of week 5. . . . hahaha

https://www.smolovjr.com/smolov-squat-routine/

Would you use your actual recent 1RM or some lower percentage to get started?

[OrderInChaos]

I guess in his original post he claimed a sub 5 minute mile and r/fitness running experts did what Reddit experts do...

As far as Viada goes, I think a lot of articles and also maybe some of his own promotional materials cited like a 4:45 mile and 700 deadlift as if they were done in the same week, the closest reality is he’s done many ultras in his huge bodybuilder/powerlifting frame and once upon a time ran that mile as a skinny track dude.

Never saw nSuns claiming a crazy mile time, was just impressed by the sheer volume! A little less impressive given 60-70% or so of his miles were treadmill, but still really awesome to sustain that much work... 3800 calories a day no doubt helped.

[augeleven]

The claim was deleted, as was all his arguing with people giving him the third degree. He is pretty much the man though.

[Hanley]

Goddamnit. Moth to fucking flame.

Now I want to retry Smolov.

Mostly because jake241983 crushed it.

Do it. Not training any movements besides bench was the ticket for me. I ran Smolov last year with lackluster results training all three lifts with low bar squats wrecking my elbows.

Shit. Totally derailing this thread. I think I'm going to give it a go. The only thing that freaks me out is Day 4. That's like...literally double the session volume I would normally do with 85%. Might start a new thread.

How about day 4 of week 5. . . . hahaha

https://www.smolovjr.com/smolov-squat-routine/

Would you use your actual recent 1RM or some lower percentage to get started?

I'm doing the 3 week "Jr". I'm planning on using tested 1RM.

[hoyeahtop]

Anyone else see that nSuns did Smolov-for-Deadlifts and ran ~35-40mpw and got some pretty sick results?

Didn’t r/running give him the ole Alex Viada treatment, and now deleted all those posts?
Deadlifting 600 and running a 6 minute mile is high on my pipe dream goals (get it? *nudge nudge* get it? although I’ll “settle” for 550 and completing a trail 50k

Was he lying about the running? Or was he using fake weights? He sure is strong for someone so thin.

People doubted his running numbers increasing so quickly. His running is all on a treadmill which I guess could mean there’s some issues with calibration? He admitted himself his outdoor times aren’t quite at the same level, but they were still quick. However he doesn’t want to post GPS/Strava data to prove it which imo is understandable considering he is a r/fitness “celebrity” and there’s lots of strange people on the internet. Particularly Reddit.

[Spaghetti]

If anyone in this thread is starting to having calf and foot arch issues ala plantar fasciitis, my PT had me do the following to fix my issues (plantar fasciitis caused by super tight calf muscles caused by increasing mileage too quickly):

• Instead using steps or a wall, stretch out your calves using a slant board (either diy or buy) or use this thingy: https://medi-dyne.com/collections/prost ... nal-single The prostretch thingy seemed to work a 100x better than a step or wall though the first couple times were excruciating; I got to try a slant board and it wasn't that much better than using a wall or hanging off a step.

• A bag of marbles: scatter the marbles in a small area and while standing on one foot, put the marbles into a cup using only your toes. Repeat with the other foot.
  • If you accidentally knock over the cup, tough luck, start over
  • Can also be done sitting or alternating your foot every few marbles
  • I don't know how to describe, but you don't really need the marbles. It's more about curling all your toes a specific way, at the same time, that seems to release a ton of tension. My left foot could do it correctly no problem, but my right foot had issues until I figured it out.

Before I went to a PT, I found these adjustments to common calf stretches to be super helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72p58Iy6u7M

[iamsmu]

It's not running, but a high level of conditioning. This looks like a very long 3 minutes!

[OrderInChaos]

It's not running, but a high level of conditioning. This looks like a very long 3 minutes!

Only became aware of it via JRE, apparently Holyfield gained massive conditioning on his graduation to Heavyweight, by dropping most LISS running. Trained under Dr. Squats Hatfield, gained a lot of muscle, did conditioning protocols surprisingly similar to Joel Jamieson's approach of certain training blocks and interval-ish full body conditioning modeled after sport specific demands (3min insanely tough bouts + 1m rests, x12-15).

Evander Holyfield most likely represents a very different class of individual in that dropping running volume was good for his performance/conditioning, lol.

Here's a somewhat self-aggrandizing article: https://www.sportsci.org/news/news9709/hatfield.html

[Philbert]

Re: improved conditioning by dropping LISS: LISS induces permanent cardiac changes, and athletes with an extensive base of this kind can benefit greatly from more lactate threshold and anaerobic work. This is where the foolishness about "conditioning taking only 6 weeks to maximize" and the initial successes of some endurance athletes trying Crossfit Endurance come from, in my opinion.

[scotty]

Reviving this thread to see how everyone’s running is going?

After a slothful year, I’m back training again. I seem to have reacquired the lifting bug and the running bug at the same time, and I’m struggling to prioritise. I guess I’m looking for a program that treats both with equal emphasis.

Something that undulates the emphasis between running and lifting week by week (while perhaps periodising within each modality as well) would be awesome.

I’m thinking of a cross between Nuckols or Hanley style programming mixed with a Stephen Seiler inspired polarised (80/20) approach to running (which seems to have the best evidence behind it currently).

If I have to, I’ll pull something together myself, but if there’s anything people can recommend that would be awesome.

[augeleven]

My log reads like a 6 year farce of me trying and failing at every single running/lifting combo possible.
I’ve been running and lifting consistently since 2020. I have kept the running to Maffetone levels of effort, and that kept me able to run 4 days a week (2 60-90 minute efforts and 2 (20-30 minute ones) while running a 4 day upper/lower split as well as 3 hour plus runs and a 3 day full body lift schedule. I didn’t get faster (I’ve always been a turtle) and I didn’t get a whole lot stronger…
The only real thing I think I’ve learned is to add new stuff slowly to avoid injury, although I may have learned that lesson too well.

I’m taking a couple of months to try shorter and faster intervals with my running, with the main goal of not hurting myself. If you find the magic programming bullet to all this, please share it.

[scotty]

I have kept the running to Maffetone levels of effort, and that kept me able to run 4 days a week (2 60-90 minute efforts and 2 (20-30 minute ones) while running a 4 day upper/lower split as well as 3 hour plus runs and a 3 day full body lift schedule.

Sounds a lot like what I’ve done in the past. My main issue hasn’t been injury, it’s been managing fatigue. Any attempt to do speed work and high intensity lifting concurrently results in me just getting exhausted. Fatigue is something I have to manage actively, even if I’m just doing one sport.

Hopefully you’ll find that the stretch of low HR work you’ve done will translate into faster times once you train faster for a while. I find I need speedwork to turn fitness improvements into performance improvements. For me, the main sign that the MAF style running is working is that I get less decoupling between HR and pace when running longer efforts (so HR doesn’t drift upwards as much towards the end of the run). I’ve seen this translate into faster 5K times when i then start specifically training for the event.

I really want to incorporate some faster running all year round, and that’s the programming dilemma I’m trying to solve. I think alternating weeks of running intensity and lifting intensity might be the ticket.

[EggMcMuffin]

Barbell Medicine told me to fuck off, but I gather that it's basically impossible to lift to any reasonable degree of proficiency AND train running at the same time?

I want to be benching and deadlifting on top of running (I want to keep my deadlift 1RM above 400 in perpetuity) but I'm not sure what that programming would even look like while training for a half marathon.

My average pace is creeping closer to 7 minutes per mile (!!!) but I'm beginning to noticeably atrophy after a year or so of not lifting. I fucking loved being strong but I love the feeling of freedom and release running gives me more. I just don't want to turn into a flabby little skeleton lol.

[Hardartery]

Barbell Medicine told me to fuck off, but I gather that it's basically impossible to lift to any reasonable degree of proficiency AND train running at the same time?

I want to be benching and deadlifting on top of running (I want to keep my deadlift 1RM above 400 in perpuity) but I'm not sure what that programming would even look like while training for a half marathon.

My average pace is creeping closer to 7 minutes per mile (!!!) but I'm beginning to noticeably atrophy after a year or so of not lifting. I fucking loved being strong but I love the feeling of freedom and release running gives me more. I just don't want to turn into a flabby little skeleton lol.

Low volume, high intensity work. Knock out ascending sets to a heavy max set, maybe one backoff set, move on. Volume is your enemy if you are doing a lot of running. You may lose a little in the lead up to a marathon or half marathon but overall you should be fine. Also know that you will probably feel a little run down initially but you will recover as you adjust to doing both. Theoretically you are using different muscle fibres for running than for lifting and it is just overall training capacity that you have to watch. You adjust, just don't overdo it initially.

[asdf]

I want to be benching and deadlifting on top of running (I want to keep my deadlift 1RM above 400 in perpetuity) but I'm not sure what that programming would even look like while training for a half marathon.

Shouldn't be a problem. Tell us your weekly running schedule, and then folks can suggest where to layer in your lifting.