Stupid Questions Thread

[Hanley]

dw, good mornings scare me. I don’t know why any non-competitive powerlifter does them. Just seems like risk/reward doesn’t work out at all.

It's just....a loaded hinge.

If you feel vulnerable doing them, I'm wondering if you might have problems maintaining lumbar extension or bracing your trunk.

[OverheadDeadlifts]

What do GMs do for you that a really strict RDL doesn’t?

One slight advantage that GMs have is when you get really good at strict RDLs, the lats start to become a sneaky third limiting factor on top of just spinal extension and hip extensors. At a certain weight that bar really wants to float away from your legs past about knee level and the lats have to work extremely hard to stop that. You can let it come away from the shins but it’s hard to keep a heavy bar even when it’s not tight against the legs.

Also full Rom seated GMs (nose touches the bench) are very fun. Highly recommend. Even better with an SSB.

[dw]

What do GMs do for you that a really strict RDL doesn’t?

One slight advantage that GMs have is when you get really good at strict RDLs, the lats start to become a sneaky third limiting factor on top of just spinal extension and hip extensors. At a certain weight that bar really wants to float away from your legs past about knee level and the lats have to work extremely hard to stop that. You can let it come away from the shins but it’s hard to keep a heavy bar even when it’s not tight against the legs.

Also full Rom seated GMs (nose touches the bench) are very fun. Highly recommend. Even better with an SSB.

I'm bad at biomechanics. What's the difference between seated and standing GMs in terms of muscles used?

[DanCR]

dw, good mornings scare me. I don’t know why any non-competitive powerlifter does them. Just seems like risk/reward doesn’t work out at all.

It's just....a loaded hinge.

If you feel vulnerable doing them, I'm wondering if you might have problems maintaining lumbar extension or bracing your trunk.

I don't know whether I'd feel vulnerable or not, because I've never done one. Too many anecdotes of hurt people, and I have a visceral bad reaction to the idea of it, just as I do to the idea of letting an RDL (or deadlift) get away from me, or reaching for a heavy object. Fortunately,

Good Mornings have nearly an identical biomechanical profile to an RDL

and I don't have any issue with

they can be a uniquely useful tool if one struggles to hip hinge properly (not letting the hips lower, not letting the back round, and not letting the knees track forward).

so I'm gonna stick with RDLs.

[Hanley]

I have a visceral bad reaction to the idea of it

Well that's too bad, because they're quite delightful.

[OverheadDeadlifts]

I'm bad at biomechanics. What's the difference between seated and standing GMs in terms of muscles used?

I think it’s basically the same musculature used but just changing which joint angles you can get into. You’re not going to get into end range hip flexion with standing GMs since it starts in full hip extension and your hamstrings will hit the end of their stretch well before you get to full flexion. With seated GMs your knees are bent so your hamstrings are a bit slacker and you can get very deep into hip flexion since they already start in flexion

I tweaked my hamstring and RDLs/GMs were a no go for a few days but I could still do seated GMs without much trouble so I’m assuming it biases the glutes (although it could have just been because of less end range hamstring tension).

They also really help troubleshoot your bracing. There’s things you can do on RDLs/GMs to wriggle out of a bad position if you fuck it up, but when it’s seated your knees and hips can’t move around much. The only thing you have much control of after the movement starts is your spinal position, so you quickly learn how to keep it stable.

[dw]

I'm bad at biomechanics. What's the difference between seated and standing GMs in terms of muscles used?

I think it’s basically the same musculature used but just changing which joint angles you can get into. You’re not going to get into end range hip flexion with standing GMs since it starts in full hip extension and your hamstrings will hit the end of their stretch well before you get to full flexion. With seated GMs your knees are bent so your hamstrings are a bit slacker and you can get very deep into hip flexion since they already start in flexion

I tweaked my hamstring and RDLs/GMs were a no go for a few days but I could still do seated GMs without much trouble so I’m assuming it biases the glutes (although it could have just been because of less end range hamstring tension).

They also really help troubleshoot your bracing. There’s things you can do on RDLs/GMs to wriggle out of a bad position if you fuck it up, but when it’s seated your knees and hips can’t move around much. The only thing you have much control of after the movement starts is your spinal position, so you quickly learn how to keep it stable.

So do you do these by dragging a bench into a squat rack?

[OverheadDeadlifts]

So do you do these by dragging a bench into a squat rack?

Yup

If you do them with an SSB it needs to have removeable handles. Unless you do them hanging off the bench but then you don’t get the nice consistent ROM from touching the bench with your face. Can be done with straight bar but you need to have it placed perfectly on the back. If it starts to roll up it feels awful.

[KOTJ]

Renaissance Periodization has excellent free short and long form videos going over a variety of free weight and machine exercises.

I think everyone would benefit from watching them, especially before worrying about an exercise.

[EggMcMuffin]

I like worrying about exercise along with my terminal bitchlessness so I must ask: do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown due to the amount of weight needed to stimulate a training effect, or can you accumulate the same training stresses at weights that do not induce *any* form breakdown?

I finally got sick of moping and not lifting so I decided I will squat AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK regardless of whatever else I have going on (also because my legs and ass have noticeably atrophied, ewwww) but one thing that always bothered me is that squatting at higher weights always became an exercise in keeping my shit together more than anything else.

What I mean by that is the amount of weight I needed to have a noticeably training effect always seemed to induce form breakdown to the degree that I had nagging pains/injuries, and these deficits were hardly ever present at lower weights. Can you really get away with doing tons of volume at say, RPE 6 with occasional loading at RPE 8 or 9 so as to avoid exploding knees?

I really just want to squat 315 for 5 wtf (achievable, moderate difficulty), and run a marathon (hard) and deadlift 500lbs and weigh 135 (very hard) and marry a bookish female (impossible)

[lehman906]

I like worrying about exercise along with my terminal bitchlessness so I must ask: do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown due to the amount of weight needed to stimulate a training effect, or can you accumulate the same training stresses at weights that do not induce *any* form breakdown?

I finally got sick of moping and not lifting so I decided I will squat AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK regardless of whatever else I have going on (also because my legs and ass have noticeably atrophied, ewwww) but one thing that always bothered me is that squatting at higher weights always became an exercise in keeping my shit together more than anything else.

What I mean by that is the amount of weight I needed to have a noticeably training effect always seemed to induce form breakdown to the degree that I had nagging pains/injuries, and these deficits were hardly ever present at lower weights. Can you really get away with doing tons of volume at say, RPE 6 with occasional loading at RPE 8 or 9 so as to avoid exploding knees?

I really just want to squat 315 for 5 wtf (achievable, moderate difficulty), and run a marathon (hard) and deadlift 500lbs and weigh 135 (very hard) and marry a bookish female (impossible)

I would say yes it’s very possible. Also, if your knees hate squats no matter what, I think it’s just fine to get some of your volume with leg exercises that don’t hurt. Weird idea, right? Obviously you need to do it enough to get better at the movement, but doing other things to improve leg strength is fine. I wish I had believed that at a younger age.

And 135? How tall are you? That seems really low.

[EggMcMuffin]

@lehman906 it was a joke about how I keep asking stupid shit about conflicting/impossible goals that are always changing. I cannot commit.

I am not 135lbs. I haven't been 135lbs since I was 17/18 years old. I sometimes miss being that thin, but I don't miss being basically emasculated by it. If you're a painfully shy, awkward dude and weigh 135lbs at 5'9 you gonna get bullied by everyone lol. I'm 170 now and everyone just thinks I'm an asshole

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

I like worrying about exercise along with my terminal bitchlessness so I must ask: do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown due to the amount of weight needed to stimulate a training effect, or can you accumulate the same training stresses at weights that do not induce *any* form breakdown?

I finally got sick of moping and not lifting so I decided I will squat AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK regardless of whatever else I have going on (also because my legs and ass have noticeably atrophied, ewwww) but one thing that always bothered me is that squatting at higher weights always became an exercise in keeping my shit together more than anything else.

What I mean by that is the amount of weight I needed to have a noticeably training effect always seemed to induce form breakdown to the degree that I had nagging pains/injuries, and these deficits were hardly ever present at lower weights. Can you really get away with doing tons of volume at say, RPE 6 with occasional loading at RPE 8 or 9 so as to avoid exploding knees?

I really just want to squat 315 for 5 wtf (achievable, moderate difficulty), and run a marathon (hard) and deadlift 500lbs and weigh 135 (very hard) and marry a bookish female (impossible)

I would say that it is possible, at least based on my experience and some programming recommendations by BBM, RTS and such, take protocols for your main lifts like (for instance)

- 1@8 and 4x8@70%e1RM
- 1@8 and 4x5@75%e1RM

Since 70%e1RM is about a 12 RM and 75%e1RM is about a 10 RM, the backoff sets are going to be between @6 and @8 given enough rest and a good work capacity. And those protocols can definitely make you stronger (at least in my anecdotal experience). Furthermore you have people in this forum who are very strong and who do most of their work @6 or below (the HVLV guys). If I were you I would try to do 1@8 and 4x8@70%e1RM for a block and see how its working for you. Hell if 4x8 are too much do 7x5 and you might still have some success (I just have not tried so I cant tell you whether or not it would work for me).

Now I also think that your obsession with getting thinner might interfere with your recovery, and you are probably self sabotaging. The goal of losing 35 lbs is going to interfere with your goal of increasing your main lifts substantially (if you try to do both at the same time).

On a different note, I would focus less on form and more on pain: if your form deviates a bit but you have no pain you're probably OK. On the other hand, even if your form is perfect and you are constantly hurt, then you have to change something in the training. There are people who get very strong and have "bad form". I cringe whenever I see internet users criticizing some very strong people for their form. If the internet form critique is weak and has good form and the lifter is strong with bad form how is that evidence that the lifter should fix their form ?

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

@lehman906 it was a joke about how I keep asking stupid shit about conflicting/impossible goals that are always changing. I cannot commit.

I am not 135lbs. I haven't been 135lbs since I was 17/18 years old. I sometimes miss being that thin, but I don't miss being basically emasculated by it. If you're a painfully shy, awkward dude and weigh 135lbs at 5'9 you gonna get bullied by everyone lol. I'm 170 now and everyone just thinks I'm an asshole

I am 200 lbs and still very shy. I doubt that lifting weights and eating protein is going to transform people's personality. You have to accept who you are as a person.

[janoycresva]

I like worrying about exercise along with my terminal bitchlessness so I must ask: do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown due to the amount of weight needed to stimulate a training effect, or can you accumulate the same training stresses at weights that do not induce *any* form breakdown?

I finally got sick of moping and not lifting so I decided I will squat AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK regardless of whatever else I have going on (also because my legs and ass have noticeably atrophied, ewwww) but one thing that always bothered me is that squatting at higher weights always became an exercise in keeping my shit together more than anything else.

What I mean by that is the amount of weight I needed to have a noticeably training effect always seemed to induce form breakdown to the degree that I had nagging pains/injuries, and these deficits were hardly ever present at lower weights. Can you really get away with doing tons of volume at say, RPE 6 with occasional loading at RPE 8 or 9 so as to avoid exploding knees?

I really just want to squat 315 for 5 wtf (achievable, moderate difficulty), and run a marathon (hard) and deadlift 500lbs and weigh 135 (very hard) and marry a bookish female (impossible)

Some of the best squat gains I ever made were on Sheiko 3-day over 80kg, and that's a program that's basically all about avoiding technical breakdown. You just do shitloads of doubles at 80%, triples at 75%, stuff that seems like it shouldn't work at all but ends up making you stronger. I made great DL gains too, despite alternating DL with DL variations and only pulling once a week.

Shit maybe I should go back to that, I'm barely any stronger now despite doing like 4x as much DL volume.

[ChasingCurls69]

I like worrying about exercise along with my terminal bitchlessness so I must ask: do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown due to the amount of weight needed to stimulate a training effect, or can you accumulate the same training stresses at weights that do not induce *any* form breakdown?

I finally got sick of moping and not lifting so I decided I will squat AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK regardless of whatever else I have going on (also because my legs and ass have noticeably atrophied, ewwww) but one thing that always bothered me is that squatting at higher weights always became an exercise in keeping my shit together more than anything else.

What I mean by that is the amount of weight I needed to have a noticeably training effect always seemed to induce form breakdown to the degree that I had nagging pains/injuries, and these deficits were hardly ever present at lower weights. Can you really get away with doing tons of volume at say, RPE 6 with occasional loading at RPE 8 or 9 so as to avoid exploding knees?

I really just want to squat 315 for 5 wtf (achievable, moderate difficulty), and run a marathon (hard) and deadlift 500lbs and weigh 135 (very hard) and marry a bookish female (impossible)

Yeah, you can do like 1-2 sets between @7-9 and 80-90% e1rm, then do the rest of your volume in sets of 4-6 between like 65-75%. None of the back-off sets have to be above @6.

[DanCR]

I like worrying about exercise along with my terminal bitchlessness so I must ask: do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown due to the amount of weight needed to stimulate a training effect, or can you accumulate the same training stresses at weights that do not induce *any* form breakdown?

I finally got sick of moping and not lifting so I decided I will squat AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK regardless of whatever else I have going on (also because my legs and ass have noticeably atrophied, ewwww) but one thing that always bothered me is that squatting at higher weights always became an exercise in keeping my shit together more than anything else.

What I mean by that is the amount of weight I needed to have a noticeably training effect always seemed to induce form breakdown to the degree that I had nagging pains/injuries, and these deficits were hardly ever present at lower weights. Can you really get away with doing tons of volume at say, RPE 6 with occasional loading at RPE 8 or 9 so as to avoid exploding knees?

If you’re concerned with loss of muscle and want to stay away from top end weights and want to keep form dialed in, the answer is paused squats. During covid they were all that I did, because I was lifting in a second floor apartment and absolutely could not fuck around. If anything I may have gained size, and when I got back in the gym months later it took nearly no time to get back to my old weights sans pause.

[asdf]

do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown

Training loads should never necessitate any degree of form breakdown.

[MarkKO]

do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown

Training loads should never necessitate any degree of form breakdown.

This x1000

You shouldn't really ever use a load you can't move 'correctly', ie with the required technique and control.

What technical breakdown *can* do is tell you where you're weak, although fairly often it's lack of technical proficiency rather than weakness.

A reasonably good guide I find to avoid getting to the point where technique goes to hell is work on being explosive and cutting a set short as soon as it becomes noticeable that you're not able to accelerate through the movement. The added benefit is that by constantly working on accelerating through the movement is that you maximise muscle recruitment almost regardless of load.

So for example let's say I'm doing an AMRAP at 80%. Reps one through five are all explosive, I'm definitely accelerating throughout. Reps six through eight I'm still accelerating but it's starting to feel harder to do. Rep nine I can fee that at my sticking point I'm slowing down. That's my last rep.

[janoycresva]

do training loads always necessitate a degree of form breakdown

Training loads should never necessitate any degree of form breakdown.

This x1000

You shouldn't really ever use a load you can't move 'correctly', ie with the required technique and control.

What technical breakdown *can* do is tell you where you're weak, although fairly often it's lack of technical proficiency rather than weakness.

A reasonably good guide I find to avoid getting to the point where technique goes to hell is work on being explosive and cutting a set short as soon as it becomes noticeable that you're not able to accelerate through the movement. The added benefit is that by constantly working on accelerating through the movement is that you maximise muscle recruitment almost regardless of load.

So for example let's say I'm doing an AMRAP at 80%. Reps one through five are all explosive, I'm definitely accelerating throughout. Reps six through eight I'm still accelerating but it's starting to feel harder to do. Rep nine I can fee that at my sticking point I'm slowing down. That's my last rep.

Nine reps at 80%? Reps six-seven are grinders for me, I may not get an eighth, and rep nine is me wriggling out from under the bar.