Need some input... family cabin, in law issues

[brkriete]

If you are serious about getting paid back I would talk to a lawyer and find out what your options are (i.e., is a lien even applicable in this circumstance?). I hope it is not the case but it wouldn't shock me if your lawyer says "yeah family stuff where nothing is signed are impossible to resolve and it will cost you as much to litigate this as it would to drop it."

I wouldn't waste time with IOUs unless your lawyer says it is legally binding and/or will help when you end up in court. Mom knows she owes you and isn't making payments now. What changes if she signs something (which she will then say she signed under duress because you are a big bad intimidating man and she's frail and elderly and only has Jeff in this world)?

You need to stop expecting an apology or any kind of other behavior that would make you feel better. Mom and Jeff will continue to make you out to be the bad guy to justify their behavior. (And how would an apology change things other than making you feel vindicated? If you get one are you going to just wait patiently to get paid?)

[Hanley]

At some point after many many people having an issue or altercation with Jeff you’d think she’d realize that it’s HIM that’s the issue.

You'd think YOU'D realize she's not going to realize this.

You just can’t make this,shit up

At this point, I'm starting to think you delight in the drama.

[omaniphil]

At this point, I'm starting to think you delight in the drama.

+1.

Also @Oldandfat I am a lawyer, but not yours, and I would recommend you find one. While we all vent on here from time to time, venting with regards to a potential upcoming legal action is probably not a good idea, and several times you've come dangerously close to making potential admissions against interest. Probably best to leave it offline.

[mbasic]

this whole thing is incredible

around post ten or so I'm pretty sure I've would've punted myself/or voted for you punting

if a similar situation ever comes up, this whole mess just reinforces my gut instincts on what to do

--------------------------
This is nothing in comparison:
Early on in my marriage, I remember once I loaned my wife's uncle $3,000 to help him in a bind with his fledgling hair-dresser business/salon.
I pretty much went into that knowing I'd never see the money again, and would "buy" my way out of ever have
to do anything like that with her family again in the future.

ex: a $3K default-loss would justify not loaning someone $20K for a car, college, etc. ....or even having to have the conversation with my wife again.
Her family/extended family is vast, and were all fairly poor 25 years ago....and all much younger than us.
I could see (then) that scenario coming up again .... repeatedly .... in the future.

...backfired though, the guy paid us back right away. DOH ! (now viewed as the reasonable guy / money-bags that is a 0% bank )

Luckily, the entire family is well off now. Never came up again.

[Oldandfat]

At this point, I'm starting to think you delight in the drama.

+1.

Also @Oldandfat I am a lawyer, but not yours, and I would recommend you find one. While we all vent on here from time to time, venting with regards to a potential upcoming legal action is probably not a good idea, and several times you've come dangerously close to making potential admissions against interest. Probably best to leave it offline.

I have a lawyer. He said to ask her to sign an iou to acknowledge the debt.

[TimGarvey]

After reading the entire thread here are some quick observations.
1. Prioritize a happy relationship with your wife and daughter.
I also have a brother-in-law, unemployed adult living with parents, so I took personal interest in this thread.
You are letting Jeff and mom poison your mind. I would try to detach from them, because they are only going to bring more emotional and monetary pain into your life. If you do choose to engage with them, encourage Jeff to read Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life. He will probably say no.
2. I would not plan on getting the $38,000 back.
You could offer to drive mom to the bank to get your first payment of $5000 and get her to sign an IOU. If you invested that $5000 in a full-market equity fund it would eventually be worth $38,000 for your daughter. Unless you are willing to sue the estate, I would not count on seeing that money again. Plan for the worst. It seems like Jeff has convinced mom that it is Jeff and her against the world and the entire estate will go to him when she passes.
3. Don't let your resentment and anger at Jeff and mom change your values as a person. Showing spite for them probably hurts you more than them. You can help an elderly person by shoveling their driveway even though you barely know them.
4. If you really love the cabin life, as others have said, get one in your own name that you, your wife, daughter, and maybe grand-kids, can use to make new positive memories.
5. Whatever you do, don't fucking buy a time-share.

[Oldandfat]

After reading the entire thread here are some quick observations.
1. Prioritize a happy relationship with your wife and daughter.
I also have a brother-in-law, unemployed adult living with parents, so I took personal interest in this thread.
You are letting Jeff and mom poison your mind. I would try to detach from them, because they are only going to bring more emotional and monetary pain into your life. If you do choose to engage with them, encourage Jeff to read Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life. He will probably say no.
2. I would not plan on getting the $38,000 back.
You could offer to drive mom to the bank to get your first payment of $5000 and get her to sign an IOU. If you invested that $5000 in a full-market equity fund it would eventually be worth $38,000 for your daughter. Unless you are willing to sue the estate, I would not count on seeing that money again. Plan for the worst. It seems like Jeff has convinced mom that it is Jeff and her against the world and the entire estate will go to him when she passes.
3. Don't let your resentment and anger at Jeff and mom change your values as a person. Showing spite for them probably hurts you more than them. You can help an elderly person by shoveling their driveway even though you barely know them.
4. If you really love the cabin life, as others have said, get one in your own name that you, your wife, daughter, and maybe grand-kids, can use to make new positive memories.
5. Whatever you do, don't fucking buy a time-share.

Thanks for that.

1. Wife’s eyes have been opened and she sees her brother as a selfish freeloader, and manipulator. (I wasn’t picking on baby brother). Relationship is stronger both with wife and daughter. Relationship with mom and Fuck nuts is done. I’m not ruling out anything in the future (absolutely no real estate transactions) and I can be civil but at the end of the day it’s wife’s family, so it’s her call. I will support whatever relationship she chooses or doesn’t choose to have.

Here’s the weird thing... fuck nuts likes Peterson. He watches all his YouTube videos. He claims to be a hardcore conservative, likes gunzz, hates “free loading immigrants” who contribute nothing, and “we have to pay for them” and I’m like “hello tea pot, my your black today”

But if I bought him a copy of that book he’d tell me to shove it up my ass because I’m a “pussy liberal who all all of the sudden hates gunzz”

2. I’ll try, and if not oh well. In the long run I’ll be ahead of the game because there was going to be more than 38k going into the place over the next few years. Won’t have to spend that now.
In my favor is the fact she actually hates owning people money and it will bother her, even if I’m enemy number one. It’s a question of can she afford to do so.
I’m also considering 38k a cost of not dealing with it anymore. So if I live 38,years it’s a grand a year. Seems worth it.


3. They have both done me a favor, and saved me a lot of money, and even more work in the long run.
I never wanted to buy this place, and only considered doing so for my family. So actually thanks Jeff !
I’m the guy on the street who clears everyone’s driveways regardless of age. I love my snowblower. Almost 40years old. Grandpa floated my a loan for 1k and bought the blower, showed me how to clean a carb, etc.
I paid him back the first winter as I made a lot of cash with it. Plus snowblowers are fun. Not as fun as guitars.

4. Never. Nope. Cabins should be rented. I could take the rest of the money we were going to pay Jeff’s mommie (and not even assuming interest) and rent a cabin for a month for the next 25 years. Cabin would be drive up, running water, hydro, ac, high speed internet, and doesn’t come with a 38 year man I have to feed.
Or not. Use the money to travel, rent an rv, whatever.

5. I won’t argue that. I fucking hate time shares.

[Oldandfat]

Just a positive ending/update for those who care....

As of today I have been paid back fully the 38k! I didn’t ask how, nor do I care. Done like fucking dinner.

I still have a new outboard, and personal items to clear out, but I’m done.

As for Jeff, he’s dead to me.

As for mom, wife is still not talking to her as she has not yet apologized for how I was treated. There will be no movement on our part until this happens. If she does, well it will never be the same.

I won’t come right out and say “because of all this I’m not doing any more favors” but if we somehow manage. to “patch things up” I’ll.just be too,busy, or,too,sore, bad back, etc. to help. Fool me once kind of thing.

Karma,was,served,on x mas. Jeff decided,he,wanted.to.go to the cabin for Xmas and left mom all by herself, lol. No big,deal as it was only the first x mas with out,dad. You were right mom, he really can change, lol.

Oh well, fuck it I’m done with the both of them.

Already planning out cruises, and flights once the whole Rona thing is done.

[mgil]

Glad you have your money back.

[mikeylikey]

The two best days of your life are the day you buy a cabin and the day you sell it.

[augeleven]

The two best days of your life are the day you buy a cabin and the day it mysteriously burns to the ground

FTFY

[Oldandfat]

So just posting for a hilarious update, and some advice…. It’ll make sense but when end of this post (hopefully).

As cabin season is starting up, fuck nuts has been going out, setting up shop. I’m getting calls / texts along the lines of “uuuuhhh thought you guys were buying the cabin?…..”

There’s a private road along with a set of rules and etiquette. Fuck nuts ran a guy off the road, and had a confrontation. Not just once, but twice. Same guy. And the guy he ran off is a pillar of the community, and I’m talking Jesus. He wouldn’t be the father himself but Jesus. Jesus filed a formal written complaint. Of course it’s Jeff’s fault. Off to a good start I see! Lol. Mom has received official notice that the infractions occurred. She must be proud! Lol.

He’s actually cut down a tree gradually and is in the process of splitting. (Neighbors have been emailing me and are confused as this is the most work they’ve sent him do. Ever. They are asking if he got struck by lightning. )

For the most part I e simply told the cottage neighbors that negotiations of succession have broken down due to typical family cabin bullshit. Don’t want to cause waves just yet. Still have some personal items to clear out, and if daughter decides she wants to have a relationship with nana I don’t want to create friction.

Here’s where the advice comes in:

Wife has extended somewhat of an olive branch and we are hoping to get talks happening.

Still haven’t received an apology. Wife emailed mom on Mother’s Day and said “despite all that has happened I still love you, happy Mother’s Day”. Mom emailed back “thanks, it’s too bad things weren’t done differently, so that we could all just get along”.

Daughter has been over a couple of times to pick up the dog for a sleep over. Despite all that happened we want to encourage daughter to have a relationship with nana as her behavior and aggression was primarily directed to me.

I believe in second chances and I’ll accept an apology if it comes, so if it does, and she starts talking about the cabin………

What do I say if she tries to sell it to us again? Flat out no, or do I suggest that Jeff purchase it from her as it’s very important to him to own his family cabin?

What if she asks us if we’re coming out to the cabin? What if I don’t want to? Do I be honest?

What if things are patched up and we decide to attend the cabin? If I do go I don’t want to work. How do I say that without sounding like sour grapes? Holidays are for relaxing not working.

If we end up talking how do I set up boundaries? I’m still convinced she’s being abused and her actions are a result of the abuse. Still willing to help but not willing to try and help, only to be kicked in the face. I’d like to tell her straight up if she’s in trouble my door is always open, but it’s not acceptable to phone us or my wife to cry and complain he’s abusing her and then not do anything about it. She can suffer in silence or deal with it. Just don’t make it my problem or I will involve the police.

Do I confront her on what she said to me and how it hurt, pissed me off, and insulted me?

Of course doofus is completely oblivious as to how bad things are. He even texted asking where the foot valve for the water intake was. He was at the cabin last, and was the person who took the water line out, lol. And wtf is he texting ME for? I still don’t know if he’s just dumb, or we’ll fuck I have no words.

So, ya still at a stand off. And I’m good with they can both go fuck themselves too. But family is family.

I’ve stepped back and wife has been calling the shots on this one as it’s her family.

Looking back at some iMessages it seems Jeff actually thought that mom was gonna come over and steam roll us and he’d end up getting his 10% ownership with us and the sale would proceed. Nope!

In fairness to fuck nuts he is actually working a seasonal job. Baby steps, lol. He told cottage neighbor he’s buying a snowmobile so he can come out all winter. Neighbor is very upset we’re not buying the cabin and mom is trying to hang on.

I think the road incidents are going to be his beginning of the end. You have the biggest asshole on the lake ditching the most respected guy on the lake.

Not gonna lie. Laughing inside.

Thoughts??

[Oldandfat]

The two best days of your life are the day you buy a cabin and the day it mysteriously burns to the ground

FTFY

That may actually happen! Lake has been evacuated.

[Oldandfat]

The two best days of your life are the day you buy a cabin and the day you sell it.

The best cabin is someone else’s cabin.

[asdf]

I missed your Dec 2020 update. Glad to hear that you got your money back.

[Philbert]

If you decide to go to your MIL's cabin yu go as a guest, not a part owner. You act like you would expect any other guest to act, i.e. you help out with anything your are asked to do or that is being done by the owners while you are there, you do not take initiative to do/fix/buy things you see are needed. If you cannot be there like that don't go. Whether you go at all is up to you, your wife, and your daughter if you are invited. Insisting on a formal apology from a participant in an abusive relationship is probably not productive, if MIL wants to put it all in the past you probably don't gain anything by insisting on a formal resolution. You should not, however, involve yourself further in her affairs unless there is evidence of an actual change in mindset (which might include an unprompted formal apology).

[Oldandfat]

If you decide to go to your MIL's cabin yu go as a guest, not a part owner. You act like you would expect any other guest to act, i.e. you help out with anything your are asked to do or that is being done by the owners while you are there, you do not take initiative to do/fix/buy things you see are needed. If you cannot be there like that don't go. Whether you go at all is up to you, your wife, and your daughter if you are invited. Insisting on a formal apology from a participant in an abusive relationship is probably not productive, if MIL wants to put it all in the past you probably don't gain anything by insisting on a formal resolution. You should not, however, involve yourself further in her affairs unless there is evidence of an actual change in mindset (which might include an unprompted formal apology).

I’m not even sure I’d want to go. Just don’t know how,to,say so without “sour grapes”.

I also,want to,set boundaries in terms of the,abuse. She,either,wants help or she doesn’t. If she doesn’t then she doesn’t get to complain and “make” it our problem.

I really can’t stand bil so,I’d,just maybe say “I,have plans this weekend but thanks for,the invite, maybe next time”

As,for,the rest of my tools ‘ belongings I’ll,just say I’m working on a project at home and,my tools are needed elsewhere.

Just trying to,exit gracefully without a fight mil is,clearly delusional

[Philbert]

"I have plans, thanks maybe next time" is an excellent non-confrontational way to avoid an event one does not wish to attend, when non-confrontation is needed.

[Oldandfat]

"I have plans, thanks maybe next time" is an excellent non-confrontational way to avoid an event one does not wish to attend, when non-confrontation is needed.

How would I approach “I’d like to clear out the rest of my belongings / tools without aggravating the situation.

I want all my stuff out of the cabin. Then the option of never going back is not an option, it’s just reality. In the event we are invited back out I simply bring the essentials.

I don’t want to give the impression “things may blow over and we go back to the old ways” by keeping stuff there that doesn’t need to be there. It’s not like fuck nuts will use any of the tools

[Philbert]

I would just say "I am working on a project next weekend, need to stop by and pick up some tools and things I left there." The project is organizing all the stuff you had at the cabin to fit in your garage. No one except you needs to know that.