Need some input... family cabin, in law issues

[aurelius]

Honestly, this worked out the 100% the best way for you.

You were agreeable. You compromised. You put your family (your wife) first. The other parties were intractable and unreasonable. They showed their true colors.

It is unfortunate that your wife now has to acknowledge who the people in her life really are. But your relationship with your wife is no longer in jeopardy, you don't have to buy a cabin you didn't really want, and you don't inherit the 'Jeff' problem in perpetuity.

You can now be the sister's husband and refer to Jeff as 'fuck nut'.

[Oldandfat]

I think you mentioned earlier that this was a weight off your back. It 100% should be. Buying the cabin and banning Jeff from coming out unless he behaved was never going to work out and it was going to lead to perpetual conflicts where you would be the bad guy.

If I can offer some advice: Disengage. Don't comment on what you will or won't do. Don't argue about the nonsense mom is saying.

Don't say you're never going to shovel her out or fix a flat tire. That sounds like you are a grown adult throwing a tantrum. And you are painting yourself in a corner for the next time Jeff fails to come through and you end up helping anyway because your wife asks. In two months if the sidewalk needs shoveling you can always say "Jeff can catch this one." If mom needs advice on a mechanic for the junk car you made her buy just say "Sorry I can't think of anyone, maybe the dealership can help you." Announcing your intentions is just setting yourself up to either look like an asshole or break your word.

I went through plenty of this with my ex-wife (by the way, when you don't take the bait the next step will be mom getting 3rd parties involved and telling you that so-and-so said you're an a-hole because of blah blah blah). You will not change anyone's mind by engaging, all you will do is frustrate and upset yourself and if you act upset and angry, it's just going to make you look like an asshole.

I definitely don’t want to be an asshole about it, but at the same time I’ve helped out a lot, been there for and she absolutely shits on me. So ya I don’t want to help her anymore. I just don’t want to be petty.

Problem is that precedent is that I have more spare time than most people do, and I’m quite handy at a lot of things that most people don’t have the time or skills to do. (Not bragging. I’m a jack of all trades, and BY FAR a master at none), and as such I’m always the go to guy for advice and to get things done. I’m type a and give me a problem and I will find you a solution.

I’ll just let phone calls go to voicemail, and always be ‘busy”, or “my back is acting up” or my fucking dog died, lol.

My wife and daughter don’t expect me to do anything for her anymore. They are more upset at nana than I am.

[Oldandfat]

Honestly, this worked out the 100% the best way for you.

You were agreeable. You compromised. You put your family (your wife) first. The other parties were intractable and unreasonable. They showed their true colors.

It is unfortunate that your wife now has to acknowledge who the people in her life really are. But your relationship with your wife is no longer in jeopardy, you don't have to buy a cabin you didn't really want, and you don't inherit the 'Jeff' problem in perpetuity.

You can now be the sister's husband and refer to Jeff as 'fuck nut'.

Agreed this worked out for the best to everyone.

My sister had a good talk with me about it. Her opinion has 2 parts.

1. NEVER, EVER not even a wee bit..... mix business and family.

2. Business is business, and friends and family are bullshit.

My sis was kinda dealing with the same issues except it was her sister in law “dawn”. Same,as,”Jeff, lives at home, drifts,from job,to,job, no money always broke except her hair and nails are always pretty, she always clubbing, new,car, trips to Mexico, Barbados, likes to gamble. No money for nephews birthdays, shows up empty handed to dinner. Same,deal. Golden child can do,no,wrong despite being a total,fuckup.

It’s rare apparently for,the female to,be this,way, at least according to our real estate lawyer that was handling the cabin purchase. He said 9/10 times it’s an adult man at home not a woman.

[Oldandfat]

Not to beat the horse but I’ve been thinking, and everything about “Jeff” either feeling picked on, he made a mistake, he won’t do it again, I’m picking on him, he’s always done this so he should always be allowed.... doesn’t matter, whatever the scenario or situation why can’t “Jeff” himself approach me and talk to me about it?

The final “blowout” occurred after he informed me (via messenger ) that I couldn’t take the generator home because he was coming out in the winter. I mean call me crazy but why would you assume that the new owners would allow you to come out in the winter? Wouldn’t you ask first? Maybe run it by them?

“Hey man, I know you were thinking of servicing the generator, but I’d really like to come out this winter. If your ok with me coming out this winter, I’d gladly look after the generator and pay for any servicing you were going to do. I promise to not make a mess, and heck I’ll even go out and buy 4 new propane bottles specifically for my use so that you,don’t have to worry about no propane next spring”


I’d be waaaay more receptive had I been approached this way. Although I’d still be concerned he pass out or get so stoned he’d do something stupid and burn the place down.

But it occurred to me that mom is always the go between. And to some extent my wife as well as she didn’t want me directly confronting him. I’m blunt and honest and straight to the point.

I often wonder if the old school lets settle it like men and give em a good old shit kicking would have helped?

Just some random thoughts as I’m still processing this. Still not going to say anything to mom.

Just as her words can’t be taken back neither can mine. Words are like bullets. Once you pull the trigger it’s a done deal.

[Hanley]

My wife and daughter don’t expect me to do anything for her anymore

Sweet. Should make it easier for you to entirely eliminate Jeff and "mom" from your life.

[Oldandfat]

My wife and daughter don’t expect me to do anything for her anymore

Sweet. Should make it easier for you to entirely eliminate Jeff and "mom" from your life.

But what is she thinking??

If “Jeff” can’t get 10% ownership then I’ll sell it outright and NOBODY will ever get to enjoy the family cottage ever again!

So assuming we actually did arbitrarily ban him (we never said that) so what? Either way “Jeff” never enjoys the cabin.

The fact that he told mom this CLEARLY show that he doesn’t give two fucks about the cabin, or anybody. It’s about him and “if I can’t have it no one will”. If that were my son that would be the writing on the wall to go fuck yourself.

Am I right?

[Hanley]

Am I right?

I think the only "right" is to never speak to either of them ever again.

#

^ I get that's easy for me to type out on an Internet forum. But...I've done it. My grandmother suggested that I was being negligent in care of my dying mother ("she's starving"). I never spoke to her again. I heard she died a couple of years ago *shrug*

[Oldandfat]

Am I right?

I think the only "right" is to never speak to either of them ever again.

#

^ I get that's easy for me to type out on an Internet forum. But...I've done it. My grandmother suggested that I was being negligent in care of my dying mother ("she's starving"). I never spoke to her again. I heard she died a couple of years ago *shrug*

Oh, I’m not above telling her outright that her son should have been an abortion, and ask her if she swallows after she sucks his dick. Nothing, and I mean nothing is off the table, lol.

It’s really going to depend on what level my wife green lights me to take it to.

She always preaching against greed, and how family is everything. But then how can you screw your entire family, and future grandchildren out of the “family cabin” experience just because her son MAY get banned at some point. (The hope was he would finally abide by the new “rules” under threat of banishment....mom was onboard with the plan).

That’s like some weird biblical shit when that dude was going to cut the kid in half or something.

[Oldandfat]

Honestly, this worked out the 100% the best way for you.

You were agreeable. You compromised. You put your family (your wife) first. The other parties were intractable and unreasonable. They showed their true colors.

It is unfortunate that your wife now has to acknowledge who the people in her life really are. But your relationship with your wife is no longer in jeopardy, you don't have to buy a cabin you didn't really want, and you don't inherit the 'Jeff' problem in perpetuity.

You can now be the sister's husband and refer to Jeff as 'fuck nut'.

PM sent

[mgil]

If a potential client came to me with this tale, including:

* 38k out of pocket from pre-deal/good faith expenditures.
* At "closing" subject to a barrage of personal attacks.
* Told they are "getting a deal" so they should be happy also getting shafted.
* Accused of manipulation in manner (armchair judgement, but right) consistent with massive amounts of projection combined with DARVO for days.
* Told Jeff would get the 10% when MIL passes and potential client must trust MIL to disinherit if Jeff doesn't follow through.

I would turn said client away, unless the representation was limited solely to an attempt to secure a lien or compensation for the 38k.

1: The middle 3 bullet points are absolutely a sign that no good faith dealing is possible.
2: Jeff being conditionally disinherited will never happen.
3: To keep your relationship with your wife happy, as hsilman suggests, need to avoid letting this color perception of MIL, but at this point also need to realize no acceptable deal is happening.
4: The cost of keeping the peace is probably not pursuing the 38k. It's a cheap lesson at the price, because had you signed a deal I would expect Jeff/MIL to be taking their regret and looking to unwind the deal with brutal (and, bullshit) allegations of elder abuse and related issues. You just spent 38k to avoid buying a cabin and then getting sued for it. Harsh, but better than 38+Price of cabin+MIL hating you and Jeff trying to work the system against you.

EDIT:

5: If you continue negotiations after this, expect to get wrecked. Once those allegations are leveled anything you do to move a deal along will be perceived by Jeff/MIL as wrongful, once hindsight kicks in and they sit around re-imaging what could have happened "if only we had done X deal instead"

That’s some damn good free advice.

I watch my own mother piss away my father’s retirement on her adult brothers (all over 60) that still can’t get their shit together.

I sat my father down when he retired (2010) and laid out a plan for his money. He could take 50% of his money and let a financial planning group handle it as long as he took the other 50% and did what I told home to do with it: put it in the longest window and very aggressive mutual funds. Thankfully he followed that advice and accumulated about $500,000 in wealth over that time so that I’m not as concerned about their situation.

Family is tricky bullshit.

[Oldandfat]

If a potential client came to me with this tale, including:

* 38k out of pocket from pre-deal/good faith expenditures.
* At "closing" subject to a barrage of personal attacks.
* Told they are "getting a deal" so they should be happy also getting shafted.
* Accused of manipulation in manner (armchair judgement, but right) consistent with massive amounts of projection combined with DARVO for days.
* Told Jeff would get the 10% when MIL passes and potential client must trust MIL to disinherit if Jeff doesn't follow through.

I would turn said client away, unless the representation was limited solely to an attempt to secure a lien or compensation for the 38k.

1: The middle 3 bullet points are absolutely a sign that no good faith dealing is possible.
2: Jeff being conditionally disinherited will never happen.
3: To keep your relationship with your wife happy, as hsilman suggests, need to avoid letting this color perception of MIL, but at this point also need to realize no acceptable deal is happening.
4: The cost of keeping the peace is probably not pursuing the 38k. It's a cheap lesson at the price, because had you signed a deal I would expect Jeff/MIL to be taking their regret and looking to unwind the deal with brutal (and, bullshit) allegations of elder abuse and related issues. You just spent 38k to avoid buying a cabin and then getting sued for it. Harsh, but better than 38+Price of cabin+MIL hating you and Jeff trying to work the system against you.

EDIT:

5: If you continue negotiations after this, expect to get wrecked. Once those allegations are leveled anything you do to move a deal along will be perceived by Jeff/MIL as wrongful, once hindsight kicks in and they sit around re-imaging what could have happened "if only we had done X deal instead"

To clarify the 38k wasn’t a goodwill gesture I did because I felt like it. Covering the cost of the foundation repair was part of the compensation for the actual purchase. We had a verbal agreement and would work out the details afterwards. This was back in June. Had we waited until the legal paperwork stuff it was possible that the contractor would be booked up and the cabin would sit all year.

Mom has indicated she will reimburse me of the money I paid for the repair. I have no reason to believe she will not.

[MPhelps]

Maybe have mom sell the cabin and pay you the 38k from the sale. Might be a good way to get your money with out looking like your taking all her savings. Plus that place will be somebody else's problem/dream vacation home.

Honestly, fuck any family memories from that place. Doesn't sound like any good memories will be made moving forward.

Sounds like she might be a drinker herself, given that you say fucknut might have FAS. If I remember correctly, Jeff is the only boy. Mommy coddles her little boy and has a drinking buddy.

Also sounds like a good time to drop a dime to the Conservation Officer about good old Jeff and feeding wildlife and unlawful shooting.

[Oldandfat]

Maybe have mom sell the cabin and pay you the 38k from the sale. Might be a good way to get your money with out looking like your taking all her savings. Plus that place will be somebody else's problem/dream vacation home.

Honestly, fuck any family memories from that place. Doesn't sound like any good memories will be made moving forward.

Sounds like she might be a drinker herself, given that you say fucknut might have FAS. If I remember correctly, Jeff is the only boy. Mommy coddles her little boy and has a drinking buddy.

Also sounds like a good time to drop a dime to the Conservation Officer about good old Jeff and feeding wildlife and unlawful shooting.

I honestly don’t,care what people think of me. It’s 38k. Lol. That’s a lot of money. And honestly if she cashes in life savings or takes a loan, I really don’t care. I wrote the cheque with the understanding we were proceeding with the purchase and we’d work it out.

It’s not my problem she broke the deal based on a “hunch” we would arbitrarily ban him. We were simply laying down the law. If he complies he is welcome to come out. Very simple.

We made a deal and she broke it. She owes me the money and I don’t care what people think.

I didn’t actually say he has FAS, but he shows traits of FAS. He really isn’t that bright of a person, no compassion or empathy, or fear of consequence. But really that’s also a lot of other things too.

I can honestly say I have way more bad memories than good from this place. Add the fact that ANYTHING is both more money and considerable more effort due to the remote nature.

So basically I took a year off because of fuck nuts. Dad died and somehow I thought I was going to pull this off, and everybody made a compromise, and everybody wins.

So once again I paid the money, did almost all,of the work, and Jeff shows up on que when most of the work is done to drink his beer, smoke his weed, fish, etc.

And when we went there on Saturday to pack up my shit (keep in mind cabin is closed for the year) and low and behold his bed was unmade, the birch was still on the front (it’s been 3 years now). And a tree cut down 3 years ago is still waiting to be cut up.

Don’t worry, conservation has been out on two occasions on a “sting” to try and catch him shooting a gun.

Many in the community approached me about his antics and said it needs to stop. The goodwill has run out.

So really I caulked have easily said nothing and eventually he,would be reported. BUT as the lot holder I’d be responsible for the ticket, and fines. So really I pay lol.

And actually now that you mention it, mom drinks. And thinking further more often than not she always has a drink in hand. Seriously, and not embellishing I can on two hands in 10 years that I’ve known her, that she didn’t have a drink in hand.

I did tell my wife I’d be willing to let her keep the 38k in exchange for 15% ownership, but don’t expect me to show up, or do any work. Mom can do whatever with the other 85%. Give me 2 weeks out of the year at my choice EXCLUSIVLY and I don’t care if it deteriorates to shit.

It’s time for me to be Jayson!

[MPhelps]

Walk away from that place. It would be easier to rent a cabin somewhere else for two weeks than to deal with all of that. If you own any part of it, you'll and up doing 100% of the work.

[Oldandfat]

Walk away from that place. It would be easier to rent a cabin somewhere else for two weeks than to deal with all of that. If you own any part of it, you'll and up doing 100% of the work.

Not if I have the mindset as Jeff I’ve already “spent” the 38k. My 15% share of the soft costs (fees, taxes, insurance ) would be 390 bucks a year. So, 100 per week

[Oldandfat]

And if you think about it mom should love this sweet,deal.

Her sweet Jeff can now be a proud owner of a cabin.

I’m only on the hook for 15% costs, and I’ll give the other owners whoever they fucking are the option of waiving my expenses in exchange for work. I’ll build the deck. You supply the lumber. No money? Oh,well. No deck. Too bad for you

[asdf]

Mom has indicated she will reimburse me of the money I paid for the repair. I have no reason to believe she will not.

Don't be naïve. You have plenty of reason(s) to doubt that she will repay you. For starters, she doesn't even have the money.

I'll be amazed if you see a penny. Sorry.

[Oldandfat]

Mom has indicated she will reimburse me of the money I paid for the repair. I have no reason to believe she will not.

Don't be naïve. You have plenty of reason(s) to doubt that she will repay you. For starters, she doesn't even have the money.

I'll be amazed if you see a penny. Sorry.

She has 20k in the bank and will take a loan

[asdf]

She has 20k in the bank and will take a loan

And what did she do with her 20k in the first place? Did she put it into repairing the cabin and take out a loan to finance the remainder? Nope. She kept her money and came to you with a sad tale about having to sell the cabin unless you and your wife bought half of it. Remember?

Look, I hope you get your money back. Sincerely. But to say that you have no reason to doubt that she'll pay you back is just foolish. She literally doesn't have the money. She just changed her mind about the purchase agreement -- and conveyed in the process that she doesn't think very highly of you. Just wait until Jeff helps her understand why she doesn't owe you anything. (All those years of use of the cabin that you and your family enjoyed. And then you tried to steal it from them!)

If you really want to get your $38k, I suggest you talk to an attorney, pronto. Not saying that you need to take legal action. But you need legal advice.

[Oldandfat]

She has 20k in the bank and will take a loan

And what did she do with her 20k in the first place? Did she put it into repairing the cabin and take out a loan to finance the remainder? Nope. She kept her money and came to you with a sad tale about having to sell the cabin unless you and your wife bought half of it. Remember?

Look, I hope you get your money back. Sincerely. But to say that you have no reason to doubt that she'll pay you back is just foolish. She literally doesn't have the money. She just changed her mind about the purchase agreement -- and conveyed in the process that she doesn't think very highly of you. Just wait until Jeff helps her understand why she doesn't owe you anything. (All those years of use of the cabin that you and your family enjoyed. And then you tried to steal it from them!)

If you really want to get your $38k, I suggest you talk to an attorney, pronto. Not saying that you need to take legal action. But you need legal advice.

To be fair she did offer to put up the 20k towards the repair. We just told her not to because we’d just be paying her back shortly anyways, and it’d all wash out. So why bother?

I’m hoping I get the money back. I don’t even know if I can do a lien. “A contract is as good as the paper it’s written on”. This was verbal, but the whole family knows what we were doing.