Whatever happened to made in Mexico?

[alek]

With all the China drama going on in the news, I thought about why do we rely so heavily on China for trade? I feel like I remember more stuff being made in Mexico, but that doesn’t seem true as much anymore.

I admit I’m no geopolitical expert or even adequately informed, but it seems there a lot of positives to doing more business and trade with Mexico, and all the other countries on this giant landmass the US sits on for that matter.

[mgil]

Using Fender guitars for a proxy, does Mexico offer a cost advantage that drives consumerism?

[mettkeks]

You can't compete with china. China doesn't care. Labour is so cheap that labourers are essentially worthless and expendable at best, conditions are often inhumane. Raw materials are subsidized and export is too. Intellectual property doesn't exist and technological advancement is stolen from the west.

To compete with china you'd have to make your population poorer and more desperate than commie china does and not give a shit about moral or ethics.

[Skander]

A quick Google suggests we have similar amount of trade with both ($650B).

I think the us-mexico supply chains are just super complex, with parts and unfinished products moving back and forth across the border multiple times. Hence tags like "made in the US with Mexican parts" and such. That was why people shit a brick when Trump wanted to close the border.

[alek]

Using Fender guitars for a proxy, does Mexico offer a cost advantage that drives consumerism?

Oh, I have no idea. I imagine that if it did given all the constraints that go into deciding where to source manufacturing, then they’d be manufactured in Mexico.

I guess I’m slightly, and I mean very slightly, surprised that constraints haven’t been manipulated in such a fashion to give countries in America an edge with respect to trade with the US.

Wasn’t that NAFTA was for?

[alek]

You can't compete with china. China doesn't care. Labour is so cheap that labourers are essentially worthless and expendable at best, conditions are often inhumane. Raw materials are subsidized and export is too. Intellectual property doesn't exist and technological advancement is stolen from the west.

To compete with china you'd have to make your population poorer and more desperate than commie china does and not give a shit about moral or ethics.

Yeah, I get all that. It just strikes me that the US is possibly missing some opportunity outside of just profits by doing more business on these two continents—North and South America. I also get that the govt can’t just dictate, “Don’t trade with X. Trade instead with Y.” That’s socialism, amirite?

[alek]

A quick Google suggests we have similar amount of trade with both ($650B).

I think the us-mexico supply chains are just super complex, with parts and unfinished products moving back and forth across the border multiple times. Hence tags like "made in the US with Mexican parts" and such. That was why people shit a brick when Trump wanted to close the border.

I wouldn’t doubt the actual numbers; I never looked them up. The usual filter between my brain and words typed onto the forum was short-circuited when I decided to start the thread.

If the supply lines are that complex, that seems silly to me. I know there’s some similar silliness with the catch and processing of seafood between the US and Asia, but Mexico literally is right there!! Why haven’t the supply logistics been figured out?

I would imagine that a US company could build factories just on the Mexican side to do end-to-end manufacturing and ship the finished product to the US. Hell, that probably does happen all ready.

[MPhelps]

Cartels.







Maybe?

[alek]

Cartels.







Maybe?

Oh yeah, they certainly are a part of the puzzle. Lots of nuance there, too.

I would imagine part of their reason for existence is no better options; isn’t that part of what we hear with respect to gangs and other criminals in the US? If a young person had opportunities that didn’t involve drugs and guns, wouldn’t they take it? Maybe, maybe not.

[quark]

China's workers are very far from the lowest cost workers. China has built up a fair amount of manufacturing infrastructure and expertise. Once supply chains are in place they tend to be sticky. Apple using Foxconn is a popular example. There's a reason Apple uses Foxconn rather than building iphones in Uganda (which may have the lowest cost workers) or, for that matter, why Wisconsin is paying Foxconn billions to come there.

[MPhelps]

I dunno enough about it to have an opinion outside of a little shitposting, but I don't know if being in a gang is less cool than working in the local factory making plastic junk.

[Allentown]

With all the China drama going on in the news, I thought about why do we rely so heavily on China for trade? I feel like I remember more stuff being made in Mexico, but that doesn’t seem true as much anymore.

I admit I’m no geopolitical expert or even adequately informed, but it seems there a lot of positives to doing more business and trade with Mexico, and all the other countries on this giant landmass the US sits on for that matter.

I think more stuff is made in Mexico now, at least things like a bunch of car plants have moved down there. But lots of the cheap junk has moved to China, like most people have said.

[aurelius]

Some perspective:
The biggest U.S. trade partners
China – $636 billion.
Canada – $582.4 billion.
Mexico – $557 billion.
Japan – $204.2 billion.
Germany – $171.2 billion.
South Korea – $119.4 billion.
United Kingdom – $109.4 billion.
France – $82.5 billion.

[alek]

Some perspective:
The biggest U.S. trade partners
China – $636 billion.
Canada – $582.4 billion.
Mexico – $557 billion.
Japan – $204.2 billion.
Germany – $171.2 billion.
South Korea – $119.4 billion.
United Kingdom – $109.4 billion.
France – $82.5 billion.

Cool, thx.

[DoctorWho]

The fentanyl (sp?) issue has me supporting [there is some word going around, like "disconnect" or something] -- moving to disentangle our economy from China. Not to mention that movies, NBA, and some US corps seem happy to help China oppress Hong Kong.

[MPhelps]

Where would you rather see that your car was made, assuming you're buying one of the big three? Canada or Mexico? It seems that a lot of them are made there and not the U.S..

Just saying.



If you said none of the above: Japan or Germany you'd actually be right.

ETA. In an attempt to not sound like this had some sort of right wing type connotation about Mexico; I was merely suggesting that there's a certain stigma attached to Mexico for a lot of the US. I've not had positive experiences with any American car I've owned. I'm pretty sure they were all made in the Detroit area.

[quark]

"Made" is not a simple matter in many manufacturing situations. Everything from design to parts manufacture to sub-system assembly can be split among many places.

Some factories let you choose among several quality control levels.

[mgil]

Coming back to this, I owned several VWs made in Mexico.

Square D, a major manufacturer of electrical switchgear, does a lot of manufacturing in Mexico.

I think that Mexico ends up in a sweet spot of being cheap enough, skilled enough, and close enough to optimize trade for certain industries.

[Culican]

"Made" is not a simple matter in many manufacturing situations. Everything from design to parts manufacture to sub-system assembly can be split among many places.

Some factories let you choose among several quality control levels.

I had a Volkswagen diesel made in Mexico (engine made in Germany). Great car. Design work was done in Germany of course. Including the programming of the ECU, which worked just like VW designed it, low emissions during the EPA test and mega-emissions on the highway.

[quark]

Mexico and Canada have a distance advantage for trading with the US, but that may not be as big an advantage as it once was. Something that has made a major difference in global trade is the shipping container, which made it much cheaper to ship things and therefore made distance less important. The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger