Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

Drafts that may or may not end up as full articles.

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Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#1

Post by mgil » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:40 pm

The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

When I was working in the sales industry, I would encounter this “axiom” of the three legged stool. This mythical stool had legs of price, quality, and time. The “axiom” was that you could pick two to improve, but that the third would suffer.

What does this have to do with training? Well it brings me to a well-known model that states criteria of most muscle mass used, over the longest range of motion, with the heaviest weight lifted. Before you start to analyze my analogy, there isn’t one. It’s just that we like to think in these simple rulesets and 3 is a common number.

But back to these model criteria, do they truly hold?

Maybe…

Here’s an example using the close-grip bench press (CGBP) and the regular bench press (BP). From my own experience, the range of motion (ROM) is about 2” greater on CGBP than BP. My strength deficit is such that I can CGBP about 90% of my BP. That’s about the same as the delta in ROM difference between the two. In other words, I trade a 10% drop in strength for a 10% increase in ROM. Along with the increase in ROM comes an increase in time to move the bar, so things are sort of evened out, at least in my mind. What about muscle mass? Well that’s about the same too, no? I mean, the same groups are involved. However, there is a change in geometry that makes for more work for the triceps and less work for the pectoral groups, hence the drop in strength. And where does this help? Well it helps when proximal biceps tendons get angry and the CGBP allows one to train a similar movement through a similar ROM, using similar muscle activation, but with less pain and aggravation.

So what

Well, for me, this allows me to train a lying down press variant more often over the course of the week. And it has tremendous carryover. So now, in essence, I’ve had to introduce extra criteria into my ruleset for exercise selection. They are:

-Similarity to the main lift
-Ability to perform with equipment constraints
-Ability to perform without pain or increased risk of injury
-Personal enjoyment

The reasoning behind the first rule is pretty clear. If one is training to display strength in a particular lift, then similarity is necessary.

For the second rule, this is something for those of us that lift at home or in a smaller gym. While I’d love to do real hip belt squats on a hip belt machine, that isn’t going to happen given my constraints. Nevertheless, some workarounds can be found. This is also an important point to consider when outfitting a gym. You might want to shell out a few more dollars for that adjustable bench (I wish I did).

The third additional rule should also be obvious, but sometimes we are just too stubborn. If a lift is grinding you down and kicking your ass, work around it. Get stronger so you can get back to that lift with confidence. Also, you might want to consider your own training advancement and how frequent some lifts should be performed. That’s a topic for another time.

Finally, the lift should be somewhat fun. In reality, none of this stuff is terribly fun, but your exercise selection should be based on the ability to see success and progress on a lift, in lieu of fun. Being mentally engaged in the process of training is probably the most import aspect to continued success.

What’s the point?

Basically, the point is that simple rulesets only work under simple conditions. For those of us that have been training for years, the ruleset needs to evolve. It should encompass things that allow us to stay on a productive lifting path for a long time, if we choose to do so. If that means pulling sumo, so be it. Wrist curls for a more stable bench? Fine! It’s you and your goals. Further, my added ruleset is not complete. It is subject to change given updated constraints. That’s the main point: getting stronger is a personal evolution. You’ll hit boundaries that are not hard and fast. Some will need to be nudged gently, others transcended abruptly. You’ll need the tools to do this. And three simple rules might not always suffice. They didn’t when I was in sales, and they don’t for strength.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#2

Post by cwd » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:30 pm

Bravo.

Now add 4-5 glamour shots of ripped bodybuilders half-squatting, and insert a reference to PLAZMA (tm) and you can get published in T-Nation.
They will add a misleading tl;dr to the front for you, and maybe convert your arguments into bullet points.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#3

Post by broseph » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:37 pm

cwd wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:30 pm Bravo.

Now add 4-5 glamour shots of ripped bodybuilders half-squatting, and insert a reference to PLAZMA (tm) and you can get published in T-Nation.
They will add a misleading tl;dr to the front for you, and maybe convert your arguments into bullet points.
The article even has a number in the title. Gotta hava number for T-Nation approval.

Srs tho- looks good, makes sense. Most of us around here probably subscribe to strong=good, but priorities and abilities are different for everyone and should probably be dynamic for the individual.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#4

Post by Murelli » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:54 pm

Great! It's a lot more real life than some articles around the interwebz.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#5

Post by tersh » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:06 pm

Definitely a good start.

In production circles an idea similar to the "three-legged stool" is known as "the Iron Triangle". Pick Two: Good, On Budget, On Time.

A bit of critique. You introduce your ruleset for selecting exercises by saying you need to add one, but then the list is definitely distinct from previous list you put forward, and to a certain extent seems aimed at "accessory" exercises. You could use a paragraph introducing your criteria first,or at least something to let the reader know you're going to talk about a set other than the "model".
Suggestion wrote:What does this have to do with training? Well it brings me to a well-known model that states criteria of most muscle mass used, over the longest range of motion, with the heaviest weight lifted. Before you start to analyze my analogy, there isn’t one. It’s just that we like to think in these simple rulesets and 3 is a common number. I have a set of three rules myself, that I use for selecting exercises, and I'll get to those in a moment.

But back to these model criteria, do they truly hold?

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#6

Post by mgil » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:40 am

tersh wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:06 pm Definitely a good start.

In production circles an idea similar to the "three-legged stool" is known as "the Iron Triangle". Pick Two: Good, On Budget, On Time.

A bit of critique. You introduce your ruleset for selecting exercises by saying you need to add one, but then the list is definitely distinct from previous list you put forward, and to a certain extent seems aimed at "accessory" exercises. You could use a paragraph introducing your criteria first,or at least something to let the reader know you're going to talk about a set other than the "model".
Suggestion wrote:What does this have to do with training? Well it brings me to a well-known model that states criteria of most muscle mass used, over the longest range of motion, with the heaviest weight lifted. Before you start to analyze my analogy, there isn’t one. It’s just that we like to think in these simple rulesets and 3 is a common number. I have a set of three rules myself, that I use for selecting exercises, and I'll get to those in a moment.

But back to these model criteria, do they truly hold?
This is great feedback! Thank you.

I think I might do a heavy rewrite when time is available. I need to categorize the movements into the “push, pull, and sit” so that the framework makes a bit more sense overall.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#7

Post by Chebass88 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:50 am

I enjoy reading articles with a conversational tone like this. Nice one Mgil!

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#8

Post by mbasic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:48 am

fucking snowflake

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#9

Post by Allentown » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:42 am

I like this.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#10

Post by mgil » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:05 am

Draft revision...

The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

When I was working in the sales industry, I would encounter this “axiom” of the three legged stool. This mythical stool had legs of price, quality, and time. The “axiom” was that you could pick two to improve, but that the third would suffer.

What does this have to do with training? Well it brings me to a well-known model that states criteria of most muscle mass used, over the longest range of motion, with the heaviest weight lifted to determine exercise selection strictly. While I believe these rules are good rules, they are by no means complete as a trainee evolves. Over the course of my training, I’ve had to add to these three. We will get to those in a bit.

The exercise selection itself falls into three general categories of a sitting motion, a pushing motion, and a pulling motion. Respective examples would be squat, bench press, and deadlift. For this article, these categories will be considered as a complete coverage of general purpose strength training movements.

Before you start to analyze my analogy, there isn’t one. It’s just that we like to think in these simple rulesets and 3 is a common number.

But back to these model criteria, do they truly hold?

Maybe…

Here’s an example using the close-grip bench press (CGBP) and the regular bench press (BP). From my own experience, the range of motion (ROM) is about 2” greater on CGBP than BP. My strength deficit is such that I can CGBP about 90% of my BP. That’s about the same as the delta in ROM difference between the two. In other words, I trade a 10% drop in strength for a 10% increase in ROM. Along with the increase in ROM comes an increase in time to move the bar, so things are sort of evened out, at least in my mind. What about muscle mass? Well that’s about the same too, no? I mean, the same groups are involved. However, there is a change in geometry that makes for more work for the triceps and less work for the pectoralis groups, hence the drop in strength. And where does this help? Well it helps when proximal biceps tendons get angry and the CGBP allows one to train a similar movement through a similar ROM, using similar muscle activation, but with less pain and aggravation.

So what?

Well, for me, this allows me to train a lying down press variant more often over the course of the week. And it has tremendous carryover. So now, in essence, I’ve had to introduce extra criteria into my ruleset for exercise selection. They are:

-Similarity to the main lift
-Benefit to the building of overall strength
-Ability to perform with equipment constraints
-Ability to perform without pain or increased risk of injury
-Personal enjoyment

The reasoning behind the first rule is pretty clear. If one is training to display strength in a particular lift, then similarity is necessary, but not always sufficient. That leads to the second rule.

The second rule seems to be redundant of the first rule, but it isn’t. What can be perplexing (at least on the surface) is that a pulling accessory motion like a bent-over row can help build a better bench press. That’s because even though there are the three general categories of lifts, and they cover the domain of general strength well, they are by no means strictly distinct. It’s pretty clear that being a good squatter carries over to the deadlift. Is it as clear that developing a good front squat might help your overhead press? To me it wasn’t at first, but empirically (from my own training and observing others), there is carryover. When the movements are analyzed thoughtfully, there is a plausible argument.

For the third rule, this is something for those of us that lift at home or in a smaller gym. While I’d love to do real hip belt squats on a hip belt machine, that isn’t going to happen given my constraints. Nevertheless, some workarounds can be found. This is also an important point to consider when outfitting a gym. You might want to shell out a few more dollars for that adjustable bench (I wish I did).

The fourth additional rule should also be obvious, but sometimes we are just too stubborn. If a lift is grinding you down and kicking your ass, work around it. Get stronger so you can get back to that lift with confidence. Also, you might want to consider your own training advancement and how frequent some lifts should be performed. That’s a topic for another time.

Finally, the lift should be somewhat fun. In reality, none of this stuff is terribly fun, but your exercise selection should be based on the ability to see success and progress on a lift, in lieu of fun. Being mentally engaged in the process of training is probably the most import aspect to continued success.

What’s the point?

Basically, the point is that simple rulesets only work under simple conditions. For those of us that have been training for years, the ruleset needs to evolve. It should encompass things that allow us to stay on a productive lifting path for a long time, if we choose to do so. If that means pulling sumo, so be it. Wrist curls for a more stable bench? Fine! It’s you and your goals.

Further, my added ruleset is not complete. It is subject to change given updated constraints. That’s the main point: getting stronger is a personal evolution. You’ll hit boundaries that are not hard and fast. Some will need to be nudged gently, others transcended abruptly. You’ll need the tools to do this. And three simple rules might not always suffice. They didn’t when I was in sales, and they don’t for strength.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#11

Post by perman » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:56 am

I like it all generally, but I kept waiting for that "2 out of 3" thing to come back. It was like a Checkov's gun about the trade-offs in exercise selection was gonna come back soon, but never did. Not sure if that first model was supposed to serve as a proper analogy here, but it feels like too thought-provoking a concept to be introduced without being used later.

Cause I think that would be an interesting theme in it's own right, if there are trade-offs in exercise selection, how do you know which criteria to prioritize?

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#12

Post by mgil » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:36 am

perman wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:56 am I like it all generally, but I kept waiting for that "2 out of 3" thing to come back. It was like a Checkov's gun about the trade-offs in exercise selection was gonna come back soon, but never did. Not sure if that first model was supposed to serve as a proper analogy here, but it feels like too thought-provoking a concept to be introduced without being used later.

Cause I think that would be an interesting theme in it's own right, if there are trade-offs in exercise selection, how do you know which criteria to prioritize?
Good points!

I’ll think about this and update. It’s indeed a work in progress.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#13

Post by tersh » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:33 am

Good additions! I won't do additional editing without being asked, as it's somewhat presumptuous to go fooling around with other people's language.

I occasionally do freelance work as an editor (and am routinely the final editor on grants and papers in my lab), and I'm happy to make that skillset available to the site.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#14

Post by KarlM » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:39 am

Well, you didn't define strength, you didn't insult anyone and you didn't talk about bosu balls. Otherwise, great read! I do however agree with Perman's observation.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#15

Post by tersh » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:48 am

tersh wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:33 am Good additions! I won't do additional editing without being asked, as it's somewhat presumptuous to go fooling around with other people's language.

I occasionally do freelance work as an editor (and am routinely the final editor on grants and papers in my lab), and I'm happy to make that skillset available to the site.
It occurs to me that this might come off kind of dickish. I'm not saying "MAN YOUR WRITING IS TERRIBLE YOU NEED AN EDITOR".
Cuz that's not the case.

My intention is to transmit that editing is something I enjoy and am pretty good at, and if folks writing for Exodus would like me to participate in editing of articles for the site I am available to do so.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#16

Post by Allentown » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:50 am

tersh wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:48 am
tersh wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:33 am Good additions! I won't do additional editing without being asked, as it's somewhat presumptuous to go fooling around with other people's language.

I occasionally do freelance work as an editor (and am routinely the final editor on grants and papers in my lab), and I'm happy to make that skillset available to the site.
It occurs to me that this might come off kind of dickish. I'm not saying "MAN YOUR WRITING IS TERRIBLE YOU NEED AN EDITOR".
Cuz that's not the case.

My intention is to transmit that editing is something I enjoy and am pretty good at, and if folks writing for Exodus would like me to participate in editing of articles for the site I am available to do so.
Only if you rewrite everything so that it sounds like it all comes from one person.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#17

Post by perman » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:55 pm

Allentown wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:50 am Only if you rewrite everything so that it sounds like it all comes from one person.
Who would have the voice of a collective Exodus avatar who makes obscure references to limbo pressing, sandwiches and Hitler?

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#18

Post by tersh » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:53 pm

perman wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:55 pm
Allentown wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:50 am Only if you rewrite everything so that it sounds like it all comes from one person.
Who would have the voice of a collective Exodus avatar who makes obscure references to limbo pressing, sandwiches and Hitler?
Also, potatoes.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#19

Post by mgil » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:58 pm

Tersh, I appreciate the offer. Right now I’ll focus on the content.

Personally, it’s a struggle between the typical “scientific writing” I do, the high-level “Bidness writing” the bosses want, and a voice that is engaging for a casual reader. As a result, once the content is squared away, a once over for consistency and readability would be awesome.

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Re: Article Draft: The Three Legged Stool – Why Rulesets Need Complexity

#20

Post by Murelli » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:41 am

mgil wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:58 pm Tersh, I appreciate the offer. Right now I’ll focus on the content.

Personally, it’s a struggle between the typical “scientific writing” I do, the high-level “Bidness writing” the bosses want, and a voice that is engaging for a casual reader. As a result, once the content is squared away, a once over for consistency and readability would be awesome.
Will you post a video of you reading your article in a sexy voice?

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