Dogs

[BostonRugger]

@mbasic those are pretty much the options for I’ve seen black bear too. Either shoot it out of a tree while listening to agitated hounds or train it to visit a bait spot (at which point you’re just shooting a big raccoon). Seems to take a lot of the fun out of it.

Also, bear meat is, uh, different.

[Allentown]

Well whether there's a 'movement' or not I probably wouldn't know, to be fair, since I'm not a vet and don't really have my finger on the pulse.... so I should take back what I said and rephrase, there are certainly some vets advocating against it, and there does appear to be some evidence for waiting, or not neutering at all - with male dogs, at least.

I'd say about 1/2 to 1/3 of the people I am around on a regular basis are vets, vet techs, or were in school for vet med when they realized they would make more money teaching. The topic doesn't really come up all that often as a matter of discussion, but any time it does I've never heard anyone advocating for not spaying/neutering with the exception of cows and horses. I've sat adjacent to way more bovine reproduction conversations than I care to think about.
But again, I have some interest in evidence-based human medicine and medical reversal, so I know there are lots of factors in play.
Being adjacent to that world I'm also pretty aware of the population issues.

You don't think a breeder would have some reasonable anecdotal experience after many years raising litters of dogs, staying in touch with the owners of their progeny, and dealing with vets far more than the average pet owner?

I don't think your anecdote really holds true. They're not vets, sure, and they're not necessarily going to be following 'the science' (although some may well do) but it's far more interrelated than chiros and diet.

How's Rip's training model doing?
Chiro and back pain might be a little better, but I still think diet works just fine. There very well might be breeders who have knowledge of the science. Who look over studies and research and all that stuff. I'd suppose if they were actually interested in the health of the animal they probably wouldn't be breeding purebreds, but YMMV. But I'd strongly suggest taking a vet's advice over that of a breeder. That way you at least know they have some training in a relevant issue. Like look how often an MD is wrong about an issue they specifically treat. Are you going to go to the person who delivers the medical supplies to their office for advice?
Even better advice would be to avoid purebreds from breeders.

I wonder how much of it too (dogs with acl tears, hip dysplasia, health problems) is from bad diet, lack of exercise, etc.... just like their human masters.

Some is. Some is from inbreeding. Fun game: get 2-3 vets together at a bar patio where people walk their dogs during puppy season, see how many puppies they can identify long term issues with.

We are in the market for a dog and have talked to several breeders in the past few months. After this I feel that breeders may be one of the worst places to get info on any dog. Obviously some are going to be better than others, but most have been worse than an aggressive used car salesman.

Breeders could be a good source of medical advice for their animals. I can tell you having a spinal fusion to remedy your back pain is very likely flushing $50K down the toilet despite not being an orthopedic surgeon. But in my relayed experience, I'd agree with this statement.


@omaniphil Cats have 4 legs, you monster.

[omaniphil]

@omaniphil Cats have 4 legs, you monster.

They're also satan-spawn. Hard Pass.

[Allentown]

They're also satan-spawn. Hard Pass.

Get 'em, @SeanHerbison

[mbasic]

@mbasic those are pretty much the options for I’ve seen black bear too. Either shoot it out of a tree while listening to agitated hounds or train it to visit a bait spot (at which point you’re just shooting a big raccoon). Seems to take a lot of the fun out of it.

I've heard of people hunting bear with a bow (and no dogs).

If "these people" are doing it from a tree stand with or without baiting.... they get a total pass of course.

[aurelius]

Trap hunting is essential for survival. Hunting any other way is risky and quite stupid in a survival situation.

Any form of trap hunting (including feeders and bait) is bullshit for sport hunting.

[mbasic]

while were at it.

I don't believe in the glorification of shooting wild pigs from helicopters that has caught on in Texas and other places.

That's a perfectly fine way to dispatch out of control population of animals. (coyotes, etc).

It might be pretty efficient.....but idk, I see a lot of animals that have to be shot several times though.

Let just not make a big deal about it, and keep the "yee hawes" to a minimum.

Same thing, more of a chore or a shame we have to do this.

[Inmyelement]

Bear hunting is pretty big in Wisconsin. Baiting is allowed everywhere but dogs are limited. The bait is generally pure sweets. Doughnuts, candy, ice cream cones ect. They posted the statistics a few years ago, and 95%+ used bait or dogs. Very little fair chase bear hunting, and to a point I understand it, but will never partake in the baited or dog hunts. But this also a state where a lot of people think you need bait to shoot a whitetail.

[JonA]

Real hunters: disguise their bait as "habitat".

Elite hunters: disguise their "habitat" as conservation projects.

Ok, I'll admit it. It was for the doggo:

IMG_20190905_084013.jpg

[Inmyelement]

I'm just over here sitting on the ground with my recurve and wood arrows.

[mbasic]

Real hunters: disguise their bait as "habitat".

Elite hunters: disguise their "habitat" as conservation projects.

Ok, I'll admit it. It was for the doggo:

IMG_20190905_084013.jpg

good one^

big difference is setting aside several thousand acres you can't even hunt on ...
...putting doughnuts out for bears to eat (and/or get diabeetus)

[MPhelps]

Bear hunting is pretty big in Wisconsin. Baiting is allowed everywhere but dogs are limited. The bait is generally pure sweets. Doughnuts, candy, ice cream cones ect. They posted the statistics a few years ago, and 95%+ used bait or dogs. Very little fair chase bear hunting, and to a point I understand it, but will never partake in the baited or dog hunts. But this also a state where a lot of people think you need bait to shoot a whitetail.

It's the same in NY. The only difference is baiting and hunting big game with dogs is illegal.

I would say a high number of legal deer are taken in agricultural areas. Bear are mostly taken legally by opportunity arising during a deer hunt.

[SeanHerbison]

They're also satan-spawn. Hard Pass.

Get 'em, @SeanHerbison

Behold! The soft, fuzzy belly of evil!

[JohnHelton]

My dogs are terrified of my cat. She is sweet to humans, but she does mentally abuse the dogs. Just for fun, sometimes she won't let them come inside through the dog door. They are pathetic.

[LexAnderson]

Had to take the ole gal to the vet today. Has an ear infection in both ears, and a large hematoma in her left ear that they have to drain and clean it. $500.00 gone. But it's better than doing nothing and leaving her in pain for it to get worse.

@SeanHerbison you spilled an Oreo milkshake on your island.

[aurelius]

My dogs are terrified of my cat. She is sweet to humans, but she does mentally abuse the dogs. Just for fun, sometimes she won't let them come inside through the dog door. They are pathetic.

My dog mostly left my GF's cats alone. One would wait for my dog to fall asleep then pounce on her to startle her. That cat was pretty pleased with itself until my dog decided to retaliate. My 70 pound cuddle monster can be quite fast when she wants to be. She caught that cat and put that cat almost entirely in her mouth. Of course my GF was not please and somehow I became the asshole of that situation.

[mbasic]

Oddly enough, my dog seems to be afraid of (or doesn't like) really small children .... toddlers that can barely walk, and maybe 1 or 2 years older than that.

Kinda works out really.

[mbasic]

Doggo has learned, on her own, just from the normal way we all operate in the back yard, that she is not allowed to cross into the chicken area....even if the gate is left open.

[alek]

Cool.

Our terrier would not do that. Do you let your chickens free range in your yard at all?

[mbasic]

Cool.
Our terrier would not do that.
Do you let your chickens free range in your yard at all?

They used to free range the entire back yard B.D. (time Before Dog). Now that's not optimal. The dog will likely eat them if not unchecked. And, the chickens shit every where. You have to manage that, and with the dog, she won't be cautious about not stepping in chicken shit.

So they're confined to other side of the fence. It's about 1/3 of the back yard. The have access to a grass/green area...but they decimate it. There is not one single weed on their side of the fence. They eat all of our food scraps, peels, carrot tops, rotten food, etc. 99% of the time, we leave the coop door open you saw in the video, they come and go as the please.

Occasionally a chicken, the one who is the most athletic and spunky, will jump the fence to get at the grass and gardens. The kids will nonchalantly let the dog out...and the dog doesn't behave the same disciplined way as when she's with me....so those have been the only times she's "got" a chicken (3 of those incidents). But she's has not killed one, or even injured seriously.....yeah, we've been right there to break it up. But she gets it in her mouth and then pins it down sorta. It takes a bit to break the whole thing up.

If I go outside with her, and don't notice the rogue chicken, she'll just point it. Or if I do see the chicken, I go out intentionally anyways just to test the whole situation....the kids absolutely freak out.

I have no bugs or insects. We don't spray since we got the chickens. Don't use any weed killer front or back yard. That's a bitch. I need to arrange a way to pen them on the other side yard so they'll eat all those weeds on that side.