Shoulder pain during low-bar squat?

[ASchaffer]

Hi, everyone! This is my first post on this forum and I'm hoping someone here can help me out with this issues I'm having on the LB squat.

When my hands are close together it makes my wrists roll back and causes wrist pain but when my hands are far apart it pinches my shoulders. My shoulder mobility is 'okay' but could be better. Any tips or advice? Anybody else deal with a similar issue?

Thanks!

[Wilhelm]

More medium grip width, and possibly try thumbs over?

I've moved my grip in only slowly over the last few years.
I now grip with pinkies just shy of two inches inside the rings.
I've used thumbs over since i started, but different things work for different people.

Also, welcome to the site, @ASchaffer
Good to have you here.

[ASchaffer]

More medium grip width, and possibly try thumbs over?

I've moved my grip in only slowly over the last few years.
I now grip with pinkies just shy of two inches inside the rings.
I've used thumbs over since i started, but different things work for different people.

Also, welcome to the site, @ASchaffer
Good to have you here.

Thanks, Wilhelm! I'll have to try a thumb-ver grip. Also, do you keep your elbows tucked into your torso or do you tilt them forwards/backwards when you squat?

[Wilhelm]

They end up close to parallel to my torso at the bottom, and i will pull them "under" on the ascent.
I set them tight before i squat, but i don't arbitrarily crank them under more than i can tolerate.
So i guess i pull them a bit down and in.
Never backwards. At least not for any reason i know.
That just works against where you your upper back to be in the lift.
My approach, in my short time lifting, has been not to force myself into positions that are uncomfortable over time.
And to mover my grip in very slowly and incrementally.
N=1, but i have had zero issues using this approach.

SpoilerShow

I've also only ever done low bar, i tolerate it perfectly well.
But you could try high bar too. I don't know the ins and outs of that lift, so maybe someone else will have a take on that.

When people complain of depth issues like pain, a question that is often asked is "Do you compete in that lift?"
If not, then a person really doesn't need to be overly concerned with depth if it really is an issue for them.

So i guess the same for low bar.
And even if you do compete, and can lift more low bar, it doesn't mean you need to train it exclusively.
Maybe variations will give your wrists a break, and play a part in resolving the issue.

I don't know how any of this will work for you, but thumbs around and thumbs over are both viable grips.
I just started with thumbs over, and i have never had any reasons to change.

*Doh, i was thinking you were talking about wrist pain as i was typing all of this. My apologies.
I'd still try a moderate width grip, and experiment with thumbs over, and maybe different squat variations

[ASchaffer]

They end up close to parallel to my torso at the bottom, and i will pull them "under" on the ascent.
I set them tight before i squat, but i don't arbitrarily crank them under more than i can tolerate.
So i guess i pull them a bit down and in.
Never backwards. At least not for any reason i know.
That just works against where you your upper back to be in the lift.
My approach, in my short time lifting, has been not to force myself into positions that are uncomfortable over time.
And to mover my grip in very slowly and incrementally.
N=1, but i have had zero issues using this approach.

SpoilerShow

I've also only ever done low bar, i tolerate it perfectly well.
But you could try high bar too. I don't know the ins and outs of that lift, so maybe someone else will have a take on that.

When people complain of depth issues like pain, a question that is often asked is "Do you compete in that lift?"
If not, then a person really doesn't need to be overly concerned with depth if it really is an issue for them.

So i guess the same for low bar.
And even if you do compete, and can lift more low bar, it doesn't mean you need to train it exclusively.
Maybe variations will give your wrists a break, and play a part in resolving the issue.

I don't know how any of this will work for you, but thumbs around and thumbs over are both viable grips.
I just started with thumbs over, and i have never had any reasons to change.

*Doh, i was thinking you were talking about wrist pain as i was typing all of this. My apologies.
I'd still try a moderate width grip, and experiment with thumbs over, and maybe different squat variations

Wow, thanks for the advice! Is that you in the video? That depth is insane, lol. Motivates me to work on my flexibility more.

[Wilhelm]

Yeah, that's me.
I've been working on my bar path and back angle.
Far from perfect, but much better than a couple of years ago.
That is a lighter weight for me, so depth will come up a bit on heavier sets, but i am very much training for my meets, and depth is a primary value for me.

There are some actual coaches here who may have more/better advice and experience with these issues.
Since i've never had any pain in wrists, arms or shoulders from squatting low bar, i can only offer my moderate approach as what has worked for me.


I guess start really light with the new grip if you try it.
I started with bar only, so i had the ultimate slow approach with it.
Just make sure you are comfortable and secure with it before going heavy.

[ASchaffer]

Yeah, that's me.
I've been working on my bar path and back angle.
Far from perfect, but much better than a couple of years ago.
That is a lighter weight for me, so depth will come up a bit on heavier sets, but i am very much training for my meets, and depth is a primary value for me.

There are some actual coaches here who may have more/better advice and experience with these issues.
Since i've never had any pain in wrists, arms or shoulders from squatting low bar, i can only offer my moderate approach as what has worked for me.


I guess start really light with the new grip if you try it.
I started with bar only, so i had the ultimate slow approach with it.
Just make sure you are comfortable and secure with it before going heavy.

Sorry for all the questions, but do you do any hip/ankle mobility stretches or are you just naturally flexible enough to hit that depth?

[Wilhelm]

I did spend time doing the "in the hole" stretch, where you squat and press out on the inside of your knees with your elbows.
But i was already pretty flexible.

I've done overhead squats with a dowel to warmup.

Probably the most useful thing/advice i found, was to spend time bodyweight squatting ass to grass.
Not reps per se, but just squat deep AF, and hang out "in the hole." while remaining tight, not just letting the lower back round overly.
Just settle into that.

Now i just warmup with the bar and do some jumps to my sets.
If i'm feeling really tired or punky, i will do a couple of squats with the bar the night before a session, and maybe in the morning a few hours before i start.
Those i will stay in the bottom with, and even set the bar down on the pins, then come up slowly.

To be fair, i have stretched a lot in my time before lifting, and i would do doorway stretches of my ankles.
Flatfooted lunge position with hands on doorjamb, then leaning into the achilles.

I still think squatting is a great way to stretch for squatting.
Bodyweight, and bar only for a little more stretch.

I squat every morning with my two cups of coffee.

[ASchaffer]

Awesome advice! I'll definitely try some of those stretches. You made me realize I'm probably not warming up enough before I squat. I'll going to try adding some bodyweight squats into my daily routine to keep my knee, hip, and ankle joints limber.

I really appreciate your help.

[Wilhelm]

Awesome advice! I'll definitely try some of those stretches. You made me realize I'm probably not warming up enough before I squat. I'll going to try adding some bodyweight squats into my daily routine to keep my knee, hip, and ankle joints limber.

I really appreciate your help.

NP. Hopefully something i said will actually be useful.
And hopefully you find a way that doesn't cause pain.

See you around.

Just to clarify, when i said i stretched a lot in my time before lifting, i mean in the years before i started lifting.
Not before a session.

Best general informed advice these days points to not strecthing immediately before lifting.
And that static stretching itself doesn't lead to lasting increase in range of motion.
Greg Nuckols covered this in the most recent Q&A Stronger by Science podcast.

Warming up is literally that. Warming the muscles and getting some blood moving.

I do think squatting deep helps you to squat deep though.
My right knee will twinge a little every morning when i first squat down with my coffee, but i just ease into it, and that goes away in quite short order.

[SquatsALot]

Low bar also bothers my shoulder (rotator cuff syndrome for years now), especially when going heavy, as there is simply no way to avoid having any pressure on your wrists. I also like a quite low bar position when squatting low bar. Thumbs around grip is a non-starter - I simply have no idea how anyone utilizes that - it simply puts all the pressure on my wrist instead of a nominal amount as in the thumbs over grip.

Simply switching in high bar for 2-3 weeks has fixed it for me before, when I am in an acute phase.

Right now, I am using high bar for 2 days per week, including my 'heavy' session. We are experimenting with keeping low bar in the rotation only for 4-1-0 tempo squats (so, very light load) to retain proficiency and avoid the 3-4 weeks of ramping back up to reacquire skill when I want to get ready for my next 1RM test. So far, while I can sometimes feel pressure on my shoulder and recently my elbow during the lift, there is no chronic condition active at the moment.

Months of PT-prescribed rubber band work, stretching, etc, simply did nothing. Yeah, it improved basic range of motion right away, but just no way a bit of stretching is going to condition your shoulder to stabilize a 300 lb load in an extended position IMHO. I am now skeptical of all PT and prehab work.

It has gotten better generally over time. I recently went an entire 8 week cycle of low bar including a new 1RM (so, RPE 9 work mixed in) with only some simmering discomfort.

Kind of the same theme that with my shoulder, at first I could not bench 80 pounds as I had some acute tendinopathy going on, so avoided bench press for months. But the only thing that helped me bench pain free, was to get used to benching and manage load/ROM appropriately a'la BBM guidance.

OP - Doubt any of this helps, but you're not the only one in the same boat.

[Allentown]

Hi, everyone! This is my first post on this forum and I'm hoping someone here can help me out with this issues I'm having on the LB squat.

When my hands are close together it makes my wrists roll back and causes wrist pain but when my hands are far apart it pinches my shoulders. My shoulder mobility is 'okay' but could be better. Any tips or advice? Anybody else deal with a similar issue?

Thanks!

Does high bar hurt your shoulder?

[ASchaffer]

Does high bar hurt your shoulder?

No, high bar feels great. I'd like to be able to do both though. I don't want to exclude LB entirely if it's just an issue of poor form or mobility.

[Ragholmes]

I don't want to exclude LB entirely if it's just an issue of poor form or mobility.

Be wary, tendinitis creeps up on you slowly and can take a very long time to fix. Ask me how I know
It took me a while to work out low bar was not for me because it didn't hurt while I was squatting. I first noticed my shoulder issues with bench and pull-ups, but it was low bar that was causing it.
If you're actually having pain while squatting I would recommend you reconsider sticking with high bar.
Some people just shouldn't do low bar. There's a lot of folks on this forum who've learned that the hard way.

[blowdpanis]

Somebody should convince Rip's pal David Kirkham to actually release these handles at some point. I tried contacting him multiple times but no go:



I had a pair fabricated with a local guy after a lot of back and forth and they work extremely well when trying to low bar squat with shoulder issues. I think there are a few things that could improve the design (like make the end handle part you hold screw in with socket screws at adjustable positions closer/further from the bar), but I've had a hell of a time getting somebody to bite on fabricating this for me.

I also ran across this as a sort of bootleg/budget version of the same idea a while back:

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthre ... 443&page=1

If you doubled up the design like he suggested for low bar I think it'd actually work. Going to test out a version of this soon myself.

[mgil]

Somebody should convince Rip's pal David Kirkham to actually release these handles at some point. I tried contacting him multiple times but no go:



I had a pair fabricated with a local guy after a lot of back and forth and they work extremely well when trying to low bar squat with shoulder issues. I think there are a few things that could improve the design (like make the end handle part you hold screw in with socket screws at adjustable positions closer/further from the bar), but I've had a hell of a time getting somebody to bite on fabricating this for me.

I also ran across this as a sort of bootleg/budget version of the same idea a while back:

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthre ... 443&page=1

If you doubled up the design like he suggested for low bar I think it'd actually work. Going to test out a version of this soon myself.

I like the idea that those handles emulate, but in the end, the cost of fabrication and lack of flexibility (in use and application) makes it a non-starter. With Titan’s V2 SSB for cheap and other options around $300, you have a far more useful tool to squat with. More people can use it since the handles allow arbitrary hand placement and the lifter can adjust handle angles on the fly.

Regardless, low bar can be a bitch. If you’re not training for powerlifting, high bar, front squat, SSB, whatever are sufficient stimulus.

[blowdpanis]

I actually kinda disagree, if you could keep the costs of those handles down, I think they're more useful than a fixed bar solution. They could be used for high or low bar, which makes them kind of unique (almost all handles and specialty bars are essentially high bar only), and attach to any bar you want, so you could actually bring it to the gym with you vs. buying an SSB for home use.

I mean, I don't think it's a million dollar idea but I'd legit rather have an adjustable pair of handles than an SSB myself.

edit: the bootleg version I linked also costs ~$14 which seems just slightly more cost effective than $300+.

[Ragholmes]

I also ran across this as a sort of bootleg/budget version of the same idea a while back:

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthre ... 443&page=1

If you doubled up the design like he suggested for low bar I think it'd actually work. Going to test out a version of this soon myself.

I found a similar design that someone had posted on Rips site with rope and pvc pipe. I made some and they worked ok, a little unstable at higher weights.
Tried different grips, grip widths, a bow bar and finally an SSB (which has resolved my issues) I should've got it 2 years ago.
If you could be bothered looking back a couple years you will find posts by me asking similar questions as the OP about shoulder, elbow, wrist issues with low bar. And you will see people suggesting I high bar or get an SSB.
But no, I had to mess around trying to make little adjustments trying to find a solution for almost 2 years. I couldn't do pull ups or dips. My bench went from 220 for sets across to painful with empty bar, and completely unable to do even 135 for a single.
Don't be like me

[blowdpanis]

I also ran across this as a sort of bootleg/budget version of the same idea a while back:

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthre ... 443&page=1

If you doubled up the design like he suggested for low bar I think it'd actually work. Going to test out a version of this soon myself.

I found a similar design that someone had posted on Rips site with rope and pvc pipe. I made some and they worked ok, a little unstable at higher weights.
Tried different grips, grip widths, a bow bar and finally an SSB (which has resolved my issues) I should've got it 2 years ago.
If you could be bothered looking back a couple years you will find posts by me asking similar questions as the OP about shoulder, elbow, wrist issues with low bar. And you will see people suggesting I high bar or get an SSB.
But no, I had to mess around trying to make little adjustments trying to find a solution for almost 2 years. I couldn't do pull ups or dips. My bench went from 220 for sets across to painful with empty bar, and completely unable to do even 135 for a single.
Don't be like me

To be clear, I already found my solution. I had a pair of handles like Kirkham's fabricated almost 3 years ago. It completely solves the low bar shoulder issues problem outright and they're as stable as the plain bar since they clamp on tightly (no wiggling/wobbling at all). I basically just wish somebody like Kirkham actually sold them to the general public, is all. Sure, they're niche as hell, but like the SSB would completely solve the problem while having the not small upside of being able to retain low bar mechanics.

https://i.imgur.com/W401K8z.jpg

As to the bootleg handles, I just wanted to try making a pair to see how they compared to the real deal.

[mgil]

@blowdpanis, how much did it cost to have those made?