The PSMF Thread

[michael]

Let's collect our Protein Sparing Modified Fasting knowledge here.

Here's how I set mine up.

4 meals per day.

Each contains:
~300kcal
60g whey or 200g lean meat
115g raw or steamed vegetables
1g fish oil

I dissolve 1/2 tsp of no-salt in a 32oz bottle of Gatorade Zero which I drink throughout the day.
I have 3 cups of black coffee before noon.
I have two or three servings of pico de gallo, cornichons, or pickled banana peppers between meals.

Meal Macros:
~50g protein
<10g fat
<10g carb

Supplements:
120g 85% whey
1/2 tsp no-salt (potassium salts)
200 mg magnesium
4g fish oil 2x
1000IU d3

Pre-workout:
28g pretzels

[JohnHelton]

@michael, how long have you been doing your PSMF? What has been your experience so far in terms of weight loss, workouts, hunger, body composition, etc.? As you know, I'm hitting keto hard. I'm down 5.7 lbs. and 2" in a week. Macros: Fat - 98, Carbs - 13, Protein - 137. Protein has been a bit light because I haven't been using as much whey. My whey has too many carbs.

[platypus]

I did a PSMF for about two weeks earlier this year. Appetite went way down, energy levels went way down, I couldn't sleep well, and I got bad diarrhea. Of course, this probably won't stop me from trying it again in the future.

[JohnHelton]

I did a PSMF for about two weeks earlier this year. Appetite went way down, energy levels went way down, I couldn't sleep well, and I got bad diarrhea. Of course, this probably won't stop me from trying it again in the future.

Sounds like a great time.

[michael]

how long have you been doing your PSMF? What has been your experience so far in terms of weight loss, workouts, hunger, body composition, etc.?

Nine days. I went from 196 -> 189. I think I'm losing 1/2 pound of actual fat per day.

Workouts haven't been impacted. I think the summer heat is worse than the diet. I do eat an ounce of chex mix or pretzels 30 minutes before lifting. I'm going to test my squat a week from Friday. Then I'll know for sure if I lost strength.

I don't have hunger. In fact I have to gag down my chicken breasts. I find eating 8 oz of chicken breast in a meal mildly revolting.

I'm going to complete 14 days and then take a week at maintenance.

Basically every day is the same now:

Meals 1 & 2
60g whey isolate
85g veges
1g fish oil

Meals 3 & 4
230g boneless skinless chicken breast w/ sriracha
85g veges
1g fish oil

Electrolytes
64oz Gatorade Zero mixed w/ 1/2 tsp no-salt
200mg magnesium

I also have 3 cups of coffee in the morning. I use Fa!rlife Skim Milk (reduced sugar milk) as creamer.

[michael]

My body fat percentage is ~20% and my waist is 34" relaxed.

I'm going to keep dieting until my Fat Mass Index is 3.

[JohnHelton]

@michael, congrats! Regarding chicken breast, I've heard that people on the carnivore diet can't take eating chicken breast. They always end up eating fattier cuts of meat.

Incidentally, I watched this video yesterday and thought it was interesting:

[Wilhelm]

It's nice they mention Rhonda Patrick in there. (That video of hers about sulforaphane is pretty amazing.)
As well as hormesis, and also how the carnivore diet is an elimination diet in the extreme.

Bruce Ames, who authored the study referenced on natural plant pesticides, is Rhonda Patrick's mentor.
http://www.bruceames.org/rp.php

[michael]

I'm surprised the video claims that carnivore diets don't have magnesium or potassium deficiencies. I think both of these are common on keto diets.

[Wilhelm]

I'm surprised the video claims that carnivore diets don't have magnesium or potassium deficiencies. I think both of these are common on keto diets.

At least for magnesium, it's pretty damned common for "regular" diets too.

[platypus]

I don't have hunger. In fact I have to gag down my chicken breasts. I find eating 8 oz of chicken breast in a meal mildly revolting.

For a while I ate a pound of shredded chicken at each meal, and it was pretty hellish until @SeanHerbison suggested I try using ranch dressing mix and Franks buffalo sauce. I immediately went from taking 45 minutes to eat my chicken down to 3 minutes.

The Franks buffalo sauce is 0 calories, so it doesn't mess up your diet.

[SeanHerbison]

SeanHerbison suggested I try using ranch dressing mix ...

[michael]

I ended my PSMF today.

I started my PSMF 100 days into a more moderate (~700kcal deficit) diet.

It was two weeks long. Here are my results:

June 28th - Weight: 196.2 BIA: 21.3% CM: 22.1% Waist: 34.5"
July 13th - Weight: 186.3 BIA: 20.1% CM: 19.8% Waist: 33"

I'm interested to see what the numbers look like when my glycogen returns.

[rjharris]

Bumping this thread because I've probably gained about 5 lbs or more during the wedding/honeymoon and want to get it off quickly.

Assuming I'm doing reasonable amounts of training, is the above sort of setup okay for losing a bit of fat quickly and sustainably With minimal lbm loss before transitioning to a more reasonable deficit for longer term fat loss?

[SeanHerbison]

is the above sort of setup okay for losing a bit of fat quickly and sustainably

Those two aren't mutually exclusive, but they are generally at odds with each other. Unless you've got a deadline for the fat loss or just need the initial quick loss for morale/sustainment purposes, I'd just go with the reasonable deficit right off the bat.

...Says the guy who's been eating nothing but chicken for a week.

[MPhelps]

I find that ground beef 90/10 or 85/15 is way easier to handle than chicken. To me it tastes like food and the fat content isn't too high. A little salt and pepper and other dry spices is all you need, if that. Chicken breast and whey is just miserable.

I don't think low fat is sustainable and you might swing too far the opposite way when you're "done."

[OrderInChaos]

I find that ground beef 90/10 or 85/15 is way easier to handle than chicken. To me it tastes like food and the fat content isn't too high. A little salt and pepper and other dry spices is all you need, if that. Chicken breast and whey is just miserable.

I don't think low fat is sustainable and you might swing too far the opposite way when you're "done."

I largely agree with this but 85/15 is pretty fatty per serve, I tried to keep just 91% + Chicken when I was doing this.

As to sustainability, I liked having one or two items in the regular diet that were 2% dairy instead of FF, my main jam was cottage cheese, maybe helped with compliance because my fat levels weren't absolute zero? But not nearly enough to screw with progress.

Bumping this thread because I've probably gained about 5 lbs or more during the wedding/honeymoon and want to get it off quickly.

Assuming I'm doing reasonable amounts of training, is the above sort of setup okay for losing a bit of fat quickly and sustainably With minimal lbm loss before transitioning to a more reasonable deficit for longer term fat loss?

I was BF~34.5% on August 20th this year at BW245 and LBM161. I finished a 6 week PSMF/RFL on October 11th with the above modification and even a little bit of slack (2-4 free meals instead of 1-2/week) at 222 and LBM160, BF~28%. The leaner you are starting from the more I'd question the choice of PSMF/RFL, but it was ridiculously easy to comply with once I got the protein heavy grocery shopping out of the way.

[rjharris]

I was BF~34.5% on August 20th this year at BW245 and LBM161. I finished a 6 week PSMF/RFL on October 11th with the above modification and even a little bit of slack (2-4 free meals instead of 1-2/week) at 222 and LBM160, BF~28%. The leaner you are starting from the more I'd question the choice of PSMF/RFL, but it was ridiculously easy to comply with once I got the protein heavy grocery shopping out of the way.

From navy I'm ~19%, though I think that may be an underestimate. That said, maybe I'll just try to get on a more sustainable caloric deficit for a month instead and see what happens. It does seem like after the glycogen / water come back, people see 1.5-2 lbs/ week net loss, which is slightly on higher side of what I've done normally before, but not too significantly higher.

[CamLeslie]

Bumping this thread because I've probably gained about 5 lbs or more during the wedding/honeymoon and want to get it off quickly.

Assuming I'm doing reasonable amounts of training, is the above sort of setup okay for losing a bit of fat quickly and sustainably With minimal lbm loss before transitioning to a more reasonable deficit for longer term fat loss?

I did it once. Results here...

https://startingstrength.com/resources/ ... ost1522285

It definitely works.

Would I do it again? Maybe. Frankly I'm not sure I'm hardcore enough anymore. I used just protein shakes for like 3 weeks and it got pretty old. I have however kept most of the weight off, I sit at around 210-220 now as opposed to 230-240 before.