SCOTUS Decisions
- aurelius
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SCOTUS Decisions
Two Whoppers came down today. Both 5-4 decisions.
SCOTUS regarding the citizenship question on the census: Not so fast, Donny!
SCOTUS regarding modern gerrymandering: What can the judiciary to do? Political issues require political solutions.
I'm disappointed in the gerrymandering decision. It is likely a "very good" judicial decision. Robert's writes a lot of "very good" judicial decisions. But SCOTUS had an opportunity to end the polarization of politics in the US and failed to do it. It's not like SCOTUS hasn't overreached before on lesser issues...
I put "very good" in quotes. I have not read the majority decision.
SCOTUS regarding the citizenship question on the census: Not so fast, Donny!
SCOTUS regarding modern gerrymandering: What can the judiciary to do? Political issues require political solutions.
I'm disappointed in the gerrymandering decision. It is likely a "very good" judicial decision. Robert's writes a lot of "very good" judicial decisions. But SCOTUS had an opportunity to end the polarization of politics in the US and failed to do it. It's not like SCOTUS hasn't overreached before on lesser issues...
I put "very good" in quotes. I have not read the majority decision.
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
I'm wondering what that means for me. Voters passed a bill requiring districts to be re-drawn by an independent panel, then the state legislature was just like "hahaha, yeah right, you thought you got a say in government? Yeah, no, idiots!"
- aurelius
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
What State was that?
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
Is the Location not displayed for everyone? MI.
Anyways, I spent 3 seconds looking for an answer to my question, and apparently the voter-passed bill will remain in effect, and the commission will be redrawing districts. Eventually.
Anyways, I spent 3 seconds looking for an answer to my question, and apparently the voter-passed bill will remain in effect, and the commission will be redrawing districts. Eventually.
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
The idea that a minority of the population of a state gets to elect a majority or an overwhelming majority of the legislators for that state is abhorrent to the ideas of democracy and one person one vote.
How is there supposed to be a political solution? The exact problem is that a majority of the voters are unable to exert control.
How is there supposed to be a political solution? The exact problem is that a majority of the voters are unable to exert control.
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
You have thusly proven yourself to be more intelligent than the majority of the SCOTUS.quark wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:20 am The idea that a minority of the population of a state gets to elect a majority or an overwhelming majority of the legislators for that state is abhorrent to the ideas of democracy and one person one vote.
How is there supposed to be a political solution? The exact problem is that a majority of the voters are unable to exert control.
Though I kind of see the point that it isn't a judicial issue. It seems that the majority could still pass a bill requiring independent commissions to draw districts, though Retubs have also been doing their best to make sure the majority are unable to get proposals on ballots or if the ballot passes just flat out ignoring or reversing it, so...
Last edited by Allentown on Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Stenson
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
Relevant:
- Allentown
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
Person: "My voting rights are being violated!"
SCOTUS: "It does seem like they are. You need to vote your way out of that pickle."
Person: "..."
SCOTUS: "It does seem like they are. You need to vote your way out of that pickle."
Person: "..."
- CamLeslie
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
George Washington:
That these Powers (as the appointment of all Rulers will forever arise from, and, at short stated intervals, recur to the free suffrage of the People) are so distributed among the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches, into which the general Government is arranged, that it can never be in danger of degenerating into a monarcchy, an Oligarchy, an Aristocracy, or any other despotic or oppressive form; so long as there shall remain any virtue in the body of the People. (Bold mine)
https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 06-02-0079
James Madison:
To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men. So that we do not depend on their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 11-02-0101
My belief is that we have strayed from virtue as a people and this democracy/republic is doomed.
That these Powers (as the appointment of all Rulers will forever arise from, and, at short stated intervals, recur to the free suffrage of the People) are so distributed among the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches, into which the general Government is arranged, that it can never be in danger of degenerating into a monarcchy, an Oligarchy, an Aristocracy, or any other despotic or oppressive form; so long as there shall remain any virtue in the body of the People. (Bold mine)
https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 06-02-0079
James Madison:
To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men. So that we do not depend on their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 11-02-0101
My belief is that we have strayed from virtue as a people and this democracy/republic is doomed.
- aurelius
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
This got a smile. That actually appears to be what Roberts is saying.
Chief Justice John Roberts said for the majority that the districting plans “are highly partisan by any measure.” But he said courts are the wrong place to settle these disputes.
Reenactment of SCOTUS reading the decision:
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
Are there any cases where the Court has struck down gerrymanders based on partisan concerns?
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- KyleSchuant
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
I would have thought something in the 14th Amendment could sort out gerrymandering. Surely if from the 14th you can get, "sorry, you can't stop black kids from going to white schools" you can also get, "one citizen, one vote equal in weight to others"?
Though perhaps the current court is more Dredd Scott than Brown vs Board of Education?
Though perhaps the current court is more Dredd Scott than Brown vs Board of Education?
- DirtyRed
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
How? How are they going to specifically define what is acceptable districting?
We already live in an oligarchy, that 95% of you smoothbrains are too stupid to acknowledge. So that failed.CamLeslie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:58 am George Washington:
That these Powers (as the appointment of all Rulers will forever arise from, and, at short stated intervals, recur to the free suffrage of the People) are so distributed among the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches, into which the general Government is arranged, that it can never be in danger of degenerating into a monarcchy, an Oligarchy, an Aristocracy, or any other despotic or oppressive form; so long as there shall remain any virtue in the body of the People. (Bold mine)
https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 06-02-0079
If the "people" are that virtuous, why do they need government to tell them how to act?James Madison:
To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men. So that we do not depend on their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 11-02-0101
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
There are proposed definitions of acceptable/unacceptable districting in the amicus briefs https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/ ... cus-briefs
If they wanted to strike it down, they could have found plenty of support in the 1st and 14th Amendments and in precedent. However, extreme gerrymandering is currently very helpful for Republicans and five justices generally are extreme Republican partisans. Roberts is sometimes a bit more reasonable as he seems to have have some concern for the Court's (and his own) reputation.KyleSchuant wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:24 pm I would have thought something in the 14th Amendment could sort out gerrymandering. Surely if from the 14th you can get, "sorry, you can't stop black kids from going to white schools" you can also get, "one citizen, one vote equal in weight to others"?
Though perhaps the current court is more Dredd Scott than Brown vs Board of Education?
- DirtyRed
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
WAAAAAAAAAAAAH WE ONLY LOSE CUZ THE REFS ARE BIASED
Sorry, that complaining only works if you're hating on Boston or LeBron. Or Cindy Crysby.
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
You don't follow the Supreme Court and the recent dynamics of appointments very closely, do you?
Did you somehow believe Trump campaigning with he would appoint Supreme Court justices to overturn Roe v. Wade meant he would appoint neutral arbiters?
Did you somehow believe Trump campaigning with he would appoint Supreme Court justices to overturn Roe v. Wade meant he would appoint neutral arbiters?
- omaniphil
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
Do you?You don't follow the Supreme Court and the recent dynamics of appointments very closely, do you?
- omaniphil
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
I haven't read the decisions either, and I probably won't get a chance to until this weekend. I'm not a big fan of the Court's political question doctrine. It is not very rigorously applied, and seems to be more of a fall back when they don't want to address an issue. I have no problem with the court having such a doctrine in general, just the way it is used currently is a little haphazard.aurelius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:57 am
I'm disappointed in the gerrymandering decision. It is likely a "very good" judicial decision. Robert's writes a lot of "very good" judicial decisions. But SCOTUS had an opportunity to end the polarization of politics in the US and failed to do it. It's not like SCOTUS hasn't overreached before on lesser issues...
I put "very good" in quotes. I have not read the majority decision.
Roberts writes good decisions on technical cases, but on big cases that are public, tends to shy away from controversy, and will write decisions that try to keep the Court from overturning legislation or otherwise making a big splash. (e.g., NFIB v Sebelius - none of the parties even argued that the individual mandate was a tax - textbook example of Roberts employing a saving construction).
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Re: SCOTUS Decisions
I do. Note the use of "generally" in my post, that criminal law cases can make for strange bedfellows and that there are many libertarian types who don't like broad governmental criminal powers. Roberts in the census case was much more surprising.