Police Reform Thread

[Renascent]

Conscription's a motherfucker.

What conscription?

I was being a dickhead, facetiously implying that cops don't choose the profession, and are heroes for facing the possibilities of danger that they didn't voluntarily sign up for.

[mbasic]

Miah said that after shooting students in her class, the gunman went through a door, into an adjoining classroom.

She said she heard screams, and the sound of shots in that classroom. After the gunfire ceased, she claims the shooter started playing loud, "sad" music.

Miah found one of her dead teacher's phones, called 911, and simply told a dispatcher, "Please come ... we're in trouble."

Right after, Miah rubbed her friend's blood all over herself and played dead.

=========================

AND, one of the new bullshitty theories I heard by talking heads on the radio today, is that the cops/authorities in charge got their "play books" mixed up and were treating this like a hostage situation, instead of an active shooter situation. Hence the "waiting". And, they were conceding this horrible tactical error in response, and was still a grave mistake ... blah blah blah

...but I call bullshit on this, this is like saying up is down and black is white.

[mbasic]

Conscription's a motherfucker.

What conscription?

I was being a dickhead, facetiously implying that cops don't choose the profession, and are heroes for facing the possibilities of danger that they didn't voluntarily sign up for.

I find the cop's calculus (we are arm-chairing-quarter-back-ing about) funny.
A cop is far more likely to get killed or shot by pulling over a drug dealer on a traffic stop, or showing up to a domestic violence call where the ex-husband is already armed and irate or whatnot ....

... moreso than a cop getting killed while a whole team of cops is (systematically) storming a school, or hospital, looking for a kid with an AR15.

The frequency or occurrence of those different scenarios ... and/or knowing where and when the threat is and coming from, is a biggie.

But it would seem the prospective cops are fully aware of the former situation above, that it could happen at any given time.
That some of those scenarios would be in the forefront of the thought process when signing up for being a cop.

Another thought is that basically a border town ... so drug traffickers and the general bad guys associated with that locale?

TL;DR: they signed up for a potentially dangerous job. Time to danger.

[quikky]

Man, we've got a solid armchair SWAT team over here.

[JonA]

Expectation and applause are not mutually exclusive.

Yup. This is pretty much universally accepted now. Ignoring people who do the right thing and giving negative feedback to those who don't has gone the way of the dodo. It's not going to change police culture to stick with it.

This is pretty much universally the case. It doesn't matter if you are a cop, a pro athlete, the spelling bee champ, a white collar worker, just a kid, a dog, or an AI, positive reinforcement works and people crave it beyond money or other material rewards.

Negative behavioral feedback is just a toxic way to stroke your own ego. That's why social media is on the course that it is.

[mbasic]

Man, we've got a solid armchair SWAT team over here.

I was going back and forth on this.
Storm the place at the wrong time, and you throw gas on the fire and then the shooter goes off killing more kids, faster, or whatever.
From what I have heard/am now hearing ..... there was the initial barrage of shots. And then thing calmed down a bit.
But after thinking about it for a while .... nah .... they should've went in there immediately.

[Hanley]

I was going back and forth on this.
Storm the place at the wrong time, and you throw gas on the fire and then the shooter goes off killing more kids, faster, or whatever.

No. Just go in and kill him.

[aurelius]

No. Just go in and kill him.

This ^.

Gun shot wounds rarely kill people instantly. Most people bleed out from gun shot wounds over time. It was reported that the first group of cops arrived within 4 minutes of the shooter breaching the school. Then they sat outside the classroom for an hour LISTENING to gun shots while kids bled to death in the classroom. How many kids bled out in that hour that could have been saved if the police had breached immediately? We will never know.

But what I do know is some fat* cops got shot at and decided that today was not the day to do their job. FUCK THEM. All of them should be fired and lose their pensions.

*have you seen the pics of the School ISD cops? Also, this ISD had its own police department. Which ostensibly exists for only this. So these cops just thought their job was harassing kids?

[Renascent]

Also, this ISD had its own police department. Which ostensibly exists for only this. So these cops just thought their job was harassing kids?

I was always under the impression that this is the primary function of resource officers.

Not sure how swiftly school districts elsewhere are making moves for the sake of security theatre, but we've already gotten some chatter about our parish adding "school safety officers" on campuses. Apparently, they'll be expected to canvas surrounding neighborhoods, just in case the Jets and the Sharks are planning a showdown at the nearby malt shop. Carl Winslow will talk some sense into them.

Weird thing is that our school board superintendent has emphasized that these safety officers will be unarmed. From experience, I'm not a fan of resource officers in general -- unarmed or not -- but I don't see how an unarmed LEO is supposed to do anything effective about a possible active shooter situation. Makes for nice optics, though, if one is fully invested in the belief that a larger police presence ensures more safety. Hell, some of the "bad" schools already utilize the presence of armed police.

When all else fails, throw more cops at the problem. The kids won't mind the day-to-day harassment, I guess...

[aurelius]

When all else fails, throw more cops at the problem. The kids won't mind the day-to-day harassment, I guess...

Or the criminalization of normal childhood and adolescent behavior. Which will disproportionately be enforced and impact the vulnerable members of our society...



From my understanding, most SRO are police officers from the city or local jurisdiction. I had not known school districts had their own police departments like Universities. I guess that makes sense for very large school districts. But the Town of Uvalde has a population of 15,000. The Uvalde PD has 40 members and their own SWAT team (a tactical team for a town of 15,000?). Add to the Uvalde ISD police department has 6 officers. So 46 officers for a Town with a population of 15,000. US average is 2.1 police officers per 1,000 people. Uvalde has more police than average and their own tactical team. Yet waited for the Border Patrol tactical team and let them do the job. Fucking Praetorian guard. FIRE EVERYONE.

[mouse]

Gun shot wounds rarely kill people instantly. Most people bleed out from gun shot wounds over time. It was reported that the first group of cops arrived within 4 minutes of the shooter breaching the school. Then they sat outside the classroom for an hour LISTENING to gun shots while kids bled to death in the classroom. How many kids bled out in that hour that could have been saved if the police had breached immediately? We will never know.

Someone isn't up on their newly discovered Whoopi Goldberg science data on AR15's...

Instant death... turned to dust...

[Culican]

'I'm not going to help you:' Man drowned in Tempe Town Lake as police watched, transcripts reveal

[KyleSchuant]

[ChasingCurls69]

'I'm not going to help you:' Man drowned in Tempe Town Lake as police watched, transcripts reveal

Maybe we'll get another supreme court case reaffirming the right of the police to stand around and watch people die.

[mbasic]

'I'm not going to help you:' Man drowned in Tempe Town Lake as police watched, transcripts reveal

Maybe we'll get another supreme court case reaffirming the right of the police to stand around and watch people die.

Probably.

Its sad, callus and all that, but its going to be pretty easy for the police to say they would be endangering themselves to go play life guard, with all of their gear on, and go save a suspect/weirdo (who just got called in for a domestic violence call), have the suspect drown the cop along with himself.

Even if they strip down .... suspect was crazy enough to run from cops, jump a four fence, swim 30-40 yards out into a lake when he himself knows he can't swim? Who's to say he just swims out another 30 yards when cops jump in? or he doesn't pull the rescuer down with him.

Also, I mean, its a common theme (even here in this thread) to make fun of the 'doughnut eating' cops physiques and physical abilities when making arrests (outside of pulling a trigger) or chasing down suspects.....

EDIT: I watched the video, that guy initially just swam out there with a real nice freestyle (arms only) stroke. Homeless guy with 4 drug warrants didn't want to get arrested and go to jail. That's all this is.

[Allentown]

'I'm not going to help you:' Man drowned in Tempe Town Lake as police watched, transcripts reveal

Maybe we'll get another supreme court case reaffirming the right of the police to stand around and watch people die.

Current supreme court would grant them the right to shoot anyone they suspect of not being a devout enough Christian.

[Allentown]

[Renascent]

I scrolled through that subreddit a little... and probably shouldn't have.

That James Boyd murder footage was surreal.

[aurelius]

The Uvalde shooting police response just keeps getting worse. Within 3 minutes of the shooter entering the building there were officers outside the classroom with rifles, at least one ballistic shield, and a breaching tool. The doors to the classrooms could only be secured from the outside and the shooter did not have a key. The doors to the classrooms were unlocked. The police never tried to open them. This was all captured on school surveillance video in the hallway. And yes, the officers in the hallway stood outside while gun shots were heard in the classroom.

Texas DPS commander:

“One hour, 14 minutes and 8 seconds,” said McCraw. “That's how long the children waited and the teachers waited in room 111 to be rescued. And while they waited, the on-scene commander waited for radio and rifles. And he waited for shields, and he waited for SWAT. Lastly, he waited for a key that was never needed.”

“The only thing stopping a hallway of dedicated officers from entering room 111 and 112 was the on-scene commander, who decided to place the lives of officers before the lives of children,” McCraw said.

[Allentown]

The Uvalde shooting police response just keeps getting worse. Within 3 minutes of the shooter entering the building there were officers outside the classroom with rifles, at least one ballistic shield, and a breaching tool. The doors to the classrooms could only be secured from the outside and the shooter did not have a key. The doors to the classrooms were unlocked. The police never tried to open them. This was all captured on school surveillance video in the hallway. And yes, the officers in the hallway stood outside while gun shots were heard in the classroom.

Texas DPS commander:

“One hour, 14 minutes and 8 seconds,” said McCraw. “That's how long the children waited and the teachers waited in room 111 to be rescued. And while they waited, the on-scene commander waited for radio and rifles. And he waited for shields, and he waited for SWAT. Lastly, he waited for a key that was never needed.”

“The only thing stopping a hallway of dedicated officers from entering room 111 and 112 was the on-scene commander, who decided to place the lives of officers before the lives of children,” McCraw said.

If only someone had told the cops there was a book about having two daddies in the room...