Velocity Based Training

[aurelius]

I'm basically Jon Snow when it comes to Velocity Based Training (VBT). I am hoping to collect the communities general knowledge into one thread.

If you have any knowledge, resources, experience, and/or links to share regarding VBT; please post below!

[Hanley]

Here's some stuff.

Here's how I test e1Rm using a bar speed device:

1. Using your "old e1RM", perform singles @ 75%, 80%, 85%, 87%, 90-92%
2. Enter data into sheets or excel:



3. After entering your data on the sheet above, you can perform a regression analysis using your data and "speed at 1RM**". To do this, right click on the table, select "series", then select "trendline" in the chart editor, try both "linear" and "polynomial" (limit to 2nd order polynomial) and project the graph out to speed at 1RM...you'll also get a formula for the curve of best fit and you can copy that to a cell to crunch e1RM if you'd like. I found that linear overestimates my e1RM by about 3-5%...a 2nd order polynomial is within about 2% (might be because I'm old...IDK).

** one of the first things you should figure out is "speed of 1RM" for all your lifts. This number is very, very stable over time (for example, my bench "speed at 1RM" has been about .12 meters per second for over 5 years...but my e1RM has gone from 375ish to 415ish ).

ALSO:

After lot's of dicking around, here's how I've settled on setting-up VBT sessions. I use the "20/15" rule.

A "set" is reps performed at a given load until I get 20% loss from the fastest rep in the set (fastest rep is usually NOT the first rep in a set).

I do "sets" using the above rule until I get a 15% loss in average rep speed of the sets.

That's it.

7 years of dicking around with bar speed devices and that's what I've got ^

[mbasic]

communities general knowledge

's

[aurelius]

's

or is it community's?

[aurelius]

7 years of dicking around with bar speed devices and that's what I've got ^

Thanks! Gives me a start and is very much in line with what I have read. Have a 'speed limit' to regulate reps and sets. Your 20/15 rule is the diamond in the rough you only come by dicking around for 7 years (experience).

What do you think of the velocity zones shown in these charts/using these as guidelines to setup a program?

[Manveer]

I assume those are peak velocities. Hanley is talking average velocities.

The way that I use velocity (trying to fine tune RPE ratings) makes me very skeptical of its utility. I find it to be misleading half the time on higher rep sets. Average velocity is a coarse metric when you only really want to know about the slowest part of the ROM.

[Hanley]

velocity zones

I think this is bullshit that needs to die.

Power production is ridiculously specific to motor programs. Moving a barbell at .75 m/s doesn't mean shit for ballistic hip extension.

I think there's some very general "foundational ballistic skill work" you can do with barbells/medballs/ropes, etc...but the velocity range thing is just pseudo-fancy jibberish.

[Hanley]

Average velocity is a coarse metric

Which fine-grain metrics have you found most useful?

[aurelius]

The way that I use velocity (trying to fine tune RPE ratings) makes me very skeptical of its utility. I find it to be misleading half the time on higher rep sets. Average velocity is a coarse metric when you only really want to know about the slowest part of the ROM.

I am terrible at RPE. I imagine those that are good at estimating RPE (self regulation) are going to find limited utility for VBT.

Are you discussing the Mean Velocity vs. Mean Propulsive Velocity vs. Peak Velocity?

[Manveer]

Average velocity is a coarse metric

Which fine-grain metrics have you found most useful?

1) Video
2) My feels

The way that I use velocity (trying to fine tune RPE ratings) makes me very skeptical of its utility. I find it to be misleading half the time on higher rep sets. Average velocity is a coarse metric when you only really want to know about the slowest part of the ROM.

I am terrible at RPE. I imagine those that are good at estimating RPE (self regulation) are going to find limited utility for VBT.

Are you discussing the Mean Velocity vs. Mean Propulsive Velocity vs. Peak Velocity?

I don't know what mean propulsive velocity is. We are only talking about concentric movement here, so isn't it all "propulsive"? But yeah, mean vs. peak.

[Hanley]

Average velocity is a coarse metric

Which fine-grain metrics have you found most useful?

1) Video
2) My feels

Good luck with your training.

Your kitchen looks awesome.

[aurelius]

I don't know what mean propulsive velocity is. We are only talking about concentric movement here, so isn't it all "propulsive"? But yeah, mean vs. peak.

Mean Concentric Velocity is the average start to stop velocity during the concentric phase.

Mean Propulsive Velocity: the propulsive phase is defined as the “portion of the concentric phase during which the measured acceleration (a) is greater than the acceleration due to gravity (i.e., a ≥ −9.81 m·s−2).” In other words, the section of the concentric phase which is ≥ − 9.81 m·s−2.

[Sumo]

I don't know what mean propulsive velocity is. We are only talking about concentric movement here, so isn't it all "propulsive"? But yeah, mean vs. peak.

Mean Concentric Velocity is the average start to stop velocity during the concentric phase.

Mean Propulsive Velocity: the propulsive phase is defined as the “portion of the concentric phase during which the measured acceleration (a) is greater than the acceleration due to gravity (i.e., a ≥ −9.81 m·s−2).” In other words, the section of the concentric phase which is ≥ − 9.81 m·s−2.

In other words MPV is the time from the start of the concentric phase to where bar acceleration hits zero.

Regarding VBT training resources:

• I follow KabukiStrength & Brandon Senn on IG, OpenBarbell and Speef4Lifts as well.
• StrengthofScience and ScienceforSPort are also good, they both have a few indepth articles on VBT and aplicability to training.
• zerosumgains has a 7 part series on VBT for powerlifters, as well as how to program a training cycle with velocity

[DirtyRed]

I'm basically Jon Snow when it comes to Velocity Based Training (VBT).

An impotent dumbass, outshone by his prepubescent sister, who left his doggo behind to rot for absolutely no good reason in a moment that proved even DirtyRed can feel sympy?

[convergentsum]

I don't know what mean propulsive velocity is. We are only talking about concentric movement here, so isn't it all "propulsive"? But yeah, mean vs. peak.

Mean Concentric Velocity is the average start to stop velocity during the concentric phase.

Mean Propulsive Velocity: the propulsive phase is defined as the “portion of the concentric phase during which the measured acceleration (a) is greater than the acceleration due to gravity (i.e., a ≥ −9.81 m·s−2).” In other words, the section of the concentric phase which is ≥ − 9.81 m·s−2.

In other words MPV is the time from the start of the concentric phase to where bar acceleration hits zero.

That's not how I undrestand Aurelius' definition, which says (I think) that the propulsive phase continues past [math]a = 0[/math] into the deceleration phase(s) until [math]a=-g[/math], ie the lifter has stopped pushing altogether. If that's correct, is the distinction between MCV and MPV practically negligible for the slow lifts?

[damufunman]

I don't know what mean propulsive velocity is. We are only talking about concentric movement here, so isn't it all "propulsive"? But yeah, mean vs. peak.

Mean Concentric Velocity is the average start to stop velocity during the concentric phase.

Mean Propulsive Velocity: the propulsive phase is defined as the “portion of the concentric phase during which the measured acceleration (a) is greater than the acceleration due to gravity (i.e., a ≥ −9.81 m·s−2).” In other words, the section of the concentric phase which is ≥ − 9.81 m·s−2.

In other words MPV is the time from the start of the concentric phase to where bar acceleration hits zero.

That's not how I undrestand Aurelius' definition, which says (I think) that the propulsive phase continues past [math]a = 0[/math] into the deceleration phase(s) until [math]a=-g[/math], ie the lifter has stopped pushing altogether. If that's correct, is the distinction between MCV and MPV practically negligible for the slow lifts?

I think this particular definition changes the meaning depending on how you're measuring. An accelerometer will always register the force due to gravity, so the [math]-9.81 m/s^2[/math] is an offset to your reading. Whereas with a position sensor (string transducer), you're measure a change in velocity, so gravity does not register. With the former you need the offset, but I believe an acceleration in the upward direction will read as less than [math]-9.8 m/s^2[/math] (if my inertial reference frame stuff is right). The latter you would just have positive acceleration.

[aurelius]

I bought the speed4lifts encoder which calulcates MPV. The encoder is directly measuring distance traveled over a set time interval calculating a velocity at each time step. I imagine the easiest way to calculate MPV is only including the velocity measurement from start of the concentric movement at v=0, t = 0 to the peak velocity (or the time step before velocity decreases). The speed4lifts encoder also removes the first portion (a set distance) of the concentric movement from the velocity measurement.

[Cleverusername]

On implementing the 20/15 rule:
Do you just play around with the percentages until you are hitting the 20% decay in the desired rep range you want to work?
Then titrate up to 15% fatigue? (Depending on current work capacity)
Seems pretty straight forward.

[Hanley]

Do you just play around with the percentages until you are hitting the 20% decay in the desired rep range you want to work?

You can just really crudely ballpark whatever relative intensities you want to work with...I used ~65% and 70% almost exclusively for bench...then just do sets with "set" defined as "reps until 20% velocity loss from the fastest rep in the set".

Then titrate up to 15% fatigue? (Depending on current work capacity)

Well, just do sets until 15% loss in average rep velocity of your sets. The total session volume will naturally titrate up over time.

#

The idea of autoregulating session volume has kinda fallen out of favor. But I like it. Using fixed session volume makes too many assumptions about baseline intersession recovery-quality. "Intersession recovery-quality" is by far my most dynamic variable. So, I'd rather autoregulate session volume AND intersession rest.

^ this is so fucking far in the weeds

[Cleverusername]

@Hanley
How did you come up with 15% session fatigue? Max recoverable volume?

If it is based on recoverable volume, does 15% fatigue=15% fatigue across intensity ranges? (As it relates to recovery)

I’m only a few sessions into using the 20/15 for squats. Only used ~70% and ~80% intensity so far. This is quite a bit more volume then I was using before. Perhaps I wasn’t working as hard as I thought I was. Really digging it so far.