Velocity Based Training

[Hanley]

@Hanley
How did you come up with 15% session fatigue? Max recoverable volume?

Yeah. But with a big caveat that my "recovery hygiene" is fucking dreadful highly variable. I believe pretty strongly in autoregulating the mesocycle itself (ie...completely shifting training sessions to accommodate training readiness). So, the 15% drop represents my variable 48-72 hour recoverable volume.

The bigger question is whether there's some meaning/significance to a 15% drop in terms of training stimulus (ie does it map to physiological events that represent some marked shift in a stress/stimulus curve). I believe it does. And whether a lifter should autoregulate session volume (I think you should).

[cwd]

And whether a lifter should autoregulate session volume (I think you should).

Doesn't everyone whose been lifting long enough to repeatedly hurt themselves, learn to autoregulate volume?

Even very hard-headed people like myself can learn to recognize that "I'm about to fuck myself up for a long time" feeling and back off...

[perman]

And whether a lifter should autoregulate session volume (I think you should).

Doesn't everyone whose been lifting long enough to repeatedly hurt themselves, learn to autoregulate volume?

People obsessed with progress or used to actively working really hard (example: Michael Wolf) probably override those signals so hard that they fail to incorporate them properly.

[CtMcBride]

And whether a lifter should autoregulate session volume (I think you should).

Doesn't everyone whose been lifting long enough to repeatedly hurt themselves, learn to autoregulate volume?

BBM and RTS do not currently recommend auto regulating volume. So, no?

I can’t, at the moment, think of a great reason not to, though.

[Hanley]

Even very hard-headed people like myself can learn to recognize that "I'm about to fuck myself up for a long time" feeling and back off...

I really like (and try to make programming decisions using) Roger Enoka's model of fatigue:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ro ... e-fig2.png

I think this model suggests utility in autoregulating session volume, rather than simply scaling intensity of fixed volume. And - I think you need more than a GO/STOP system of autoregulating volume.

[OCG]

I think that having a minimum and a maximum number of sets and keeping sets @6 or 7 is way different to "drop 5 or 10% and keep going until @8 or 9" in terms of fatigue and eventual bar velocity.

Also, @Hanley 20% velocity loss reminds me of an interesting paper I rear that compared 20% velocity loss to 40% velocity loss. You want to see?

[Hanley]

You want to see?

Pretty sure I read it. Pareja-Blanco?

[OCG]

You want to see?

Pretty sure I read it. Pareja-Blanco?

Yeah, that one.

"Effects of velocity loss during resistance training on athletic performance, strength gains and muscle adaptations"

[Sumo]

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/de79/7 ... c26783.pdf - The use of velocity-based training in
strength and power training - A systematic review.

This touches on a lot of areas, such as validity of VBT, 1RM testing, fatigue etc well worth the read for anyone interested in VBT or already using it.

[aurelius]

From my 2 to 3 weeks of trying VBT:

The 20/15 rule works pretty good for sets greater than 3 with rep ranges greater than 5.

When I am doing work with reps less than 5 (3 for instance). It is generally speed/power work. And my third rep is often faster than my first rep. I have gone to a 95/90 rule. Don't know if that is great but it prevents me from doing 10 plus sets of 3 when I am wanting to keep the overall work light.

[Hanley]

When I am doing work with reps less than 5 (3 for instance). It is generally speed/power work.

What approximate % of 1rm are you using for this sort of session?

[aurelius]

What approximate % of 1rm are you using for this sort of session?

Depends...have some 'speed' lifts so pretty low ~60%.

some cases greater than 80%.

[Manveer]

And whether a lifter should autoregulate session volume (I think you should).

Doesn't everyone whose been lifting long enough to repeatedly hurt themselves, learn to autoregulate volume?

BBM and RTS do not currently recommend auto regulating volume. So, no?

I can’t, at the moment, think of a great reason not to, though.

RTS does... through trends in a daily “how do you feel” questionnaire (TRAC).

[CtMcBride]

And whether a lifter should autoregulate session volume (I think you should).

Doesn't everyone whose been lifting long enough to repeatedly hurt themselves, learn to autoregulate volume?

BBM and RTS do not currently recommend auto regulating volume. So, no?

I can’t, at the moment, think of a great reason not to, though.

RTS does... through trends in a daily “how do you feel” questionnaire (TRAC).

Interesting. I haven't used TRAC. I've just been listening to Mike T do the podcast rounds discussing emerging strategies, which only auto-regulates intensity using RPE, and seems to be his current preferred programming model.

[Manveer]

And whether a lifter should autoregulate session volume (I think you should).

Doesn't everyone whose been lifting long enough to repeatedly hurt themselves, learn to autoregulate volume?

BBM and RTS do not currently recommend auto regulating volume. So, no?

I can’t, at the moment, think of a great reason not to, though.

RTS does... through trends in a daily “how do you feel” questionnaire (TRAC).

Interesting. I haven't used TRAC. I've just been listening to Mike T do the podcast rounds discussing emerging strategies, which only auto-regulates intensity using RPE, and seems to be his current preferred programming model.

Right. He might not mention it, but TRAC is used with RTS coaching clients to autoregulate volume even with the emerging strategy approach. I can’t imagine he would recommend against it (or another approach to monitor macro trends in fatigue/wellness/whatever you want to call it).

[CtMcBride]

Ok, cool. I hadn't heard him talk about it in that context. I was thinking about the times he's talked about no longer using fatigue drops and hadn't heard him mention using track in conjunction with ES. Good to know.

[Cleverusername]

So after ~3 mos of using VBT, I have to say this is working way better than RPE for me. Most of my gains I would attribute to not sandbagging like I would with RPE. Also, I had a habit of rating RPE during the set. Now I can just focus on the lift and check the results when I’m done.

My DL programming is pretty simple, I do three acending sets with a goal of not to be slower than .xx m/s on the top set. Then a couple back off sets. Ive been able to add weight most weeks. I’ll hit a top single every other week or so.

Squat I’m doing some Hanley inspired stuff. Rotating rep ranges each session using his 20/15 rule, with a top single once a week. Seems to be working well.

[aurelius]

So after ~3 mos of using VBT, I have to say this is working way better than RPE for me. Most of my gains I would attribute to not sandbagging like I would with RPE. Also, I had a habit of rating RPE during the set. Now I can just focus on the lift and check the results when I’m done.

This is my experience . I 'feel' like I am getting good work, not beating myself up, and making progress.

[perman]

Is anyone here doing VBT in commercial gyms?

I picture putting a bar speed device in and out of my workout bag, that it gets ruined quickly since I throw that bag around, and that I'd be a total weirdo for trying this in my current gym...

[Manveer]

Is anyone here doing VBT in commercial gyms?

I picture putting a bar speed device in and out of my workout bag, that it gets ruined quickly since I throw that bag around, and that I'd be a total weirdo for trying this in my current gym...

Wait til someone (trying to be helpful) pulls off a plate as you are stripping the bar without noticing the openbarbell string. Slides off the bar, slams into the device...fun times.