HELTH !

[mbasic]

Try to push press like you would jerk.
Dip and drive should be similar.
Most all beginners have the same jerk errors: dip too deep; bar then gets forward; and drive from their toes.
Try to dip shallower, drive up fast, and stay on your heels as long as possible in the drive (only use toe ext. at the last possible moment).
Use same rack grip as jerk.
You can "fix" a lot of technique stuff while doing a "strength" exercise.

You guys need to tape yourselves, or do it in front of your coaches to make sure you are doing it right.
Or you'll just reinforce bad habits.
I would pay attention to the bar going straight down and up.
And watch your shoes, pressure should be midfoot (or even heels) through the dip and drive.

Funny, this is never brought up in Oly circles, but this is one weird thought of mine:
. . . lowering heavy push presses may do more for your shoulders,triceps,muscles,etc through the eccentric work portion than anything.
Sure, you lower it only a little bit and then let it drop, and catch it with the shoulders,
but that first 6" or so of lowering is SO controlled. . . . and your really control it . . for reals, so it doesn't kill you when you drop it.
And keep in mind this weight is a lot more than your press would ever be. So more overload than lowering a press.

Heavy Jerks? I anit fucking with those any more, I just drop them. I think even says to do this in the Book.

[mbasic]

. Do you think anything is missed by completely omitting it if chin ups/row movements are trained?

Yeah, I would do something there.
I'm no Oly guru or nothing . . . But IMO: it would seem neglecting those muscles 100% would be a bad thing.
I myself try to do something once a week right now.
Either chin assist machine, lat pulldown, supinated strict rows, or something.
I do just a fluff BB rep scheme . . .lots or reps, lighter weight, less intra set rest.
Mix it up to just do something different to keep some variety/sanity.
I have ALWAYS sucked at Chins/Pullups . . . so I really don't care.
(I seem to be able to row OK tho)

Later on in your Oly career:
- Maybe during a peaking phase for a meet, don't worry about rowing/curling at all.
- Maybe during an early GPP/hypertrpohy phase, do a lot of rowing, chinning, curls.

[OCG]

The pin presses look interesting.

One thing I've learnt with push presses is, stick your knee out a bit. When I don't do this, push pressing hurts my knees. Magically, I line them up with my feet, the pain goes away.

[mbasic]

9+28+2017. Thurs.

--SNATCH--
-Lower hip start.
-Experiment to see what happens on fresh legs:
95*3; 95*3; 120*3; 145*3; 170*2;
195 good,but got behind bar to soon
205 little fwd, but pretty gud
215 PR att fail...too slow

215 again but tad "moar speed"...
-did it! But fwd a little, and shakey arms/elbows questionable
-so not counting as pr , sad face
-I need to do something that makes me raise my knees faster in the catch.
-Its like my feet are struck in concrete;
-my foot gets trapped coming back underneath cuz I don't lift my knees/upper legs fast enough



185*2; 190*2; 190*2
-A lot of misses,cut of 1st pull too soon

190*2: good, and just ok
190*2: make, and miss
190*2: both pretty solid, so stopped

--HBBS--
135*5; 205*5;255 3*5
-Last time, should be ezr, but it's not

--PRESS-- 1.0
45*10; 95*5;95*3;135*3; 160*2
180*5@9 ... harder than I would've liked it to be
160*5; 140 2*6
-shoulders could be toast after snatching of course.

BW=216.6...didnt really sweat at all

[damufunman]

Nice snatch Mike, a little shaky but looked pretty good to me. Any ideas on how to get under quicker? Is it just a matter of pulling your legs up quicker, or do you need more upper body in the third pull?

[mbasic]

Nice snatch Mike, a little shaky but looked pretty good to me. Any ideas on how to get under quicker? Is it just a matter of pulling your legs up quicker, or do you need more upper body in the third pull?

In my case? I think I'm pulling under faster/harder with my arms MORE THAN what my hip flexors are doing to get my knees up and out.
The feet are late getting into place. My hamstrings are curling my legs up more than my hip flexors are pulling up my thighs/knees.

Tall snatches force you to pull under, and lift your legs/knees up.
Have to do them real tall and straight.

People might Rx Heavy drop snatches . . . those are no good IMO opinion, they turn into a SNG-power-jerk-OHS-ride-the-squat down-thing
Maybe just lite drop snatches with absolutely no heave up. That way your taking the arm pull out of it.
Both of those ^ above, you catch the bar too high many time, and then ride it down to the bottom.
I need something where I pull my knees up and land into the rock bottom squat-catch position.

Other than that, I don't know. Just do it right and don't be lazy I guess.
Maybe some jumps to box . . .tuck jumps ??? or something.
I hate it
Maybe those stupid snatches where you jump up onto the plates.

[mbasic]

9+30+2017.
Disaster
Stood outside for about 4 hours during kids flagfootball thing.
Didn't eat. Bad idea to go-to gym after this.

--TALL SN+ SN--
(2+1)
95;115;135; 145; 155 (2+2) wobbly ass fail Clark fuck this shit...too tired by the 3rd rep...

Try....Tuck jumpx3 + SNx2
135; 145; 155; 165 fail;
Totally fucked up timing now.
This was stupid

Just SNATCH ;
165;175;185;195*6 MISSES
JUST FUCKING TIRED AND OUT OF IT

--RACK JERK--
115*3; 165*3; 195*1; 225*1;
255*1; 275 fail...at least I got under it to some degree...closer than last time for sure

No tempo squats...

--SN PULL--
225 6s x 3r
Haven't done these in a long time.
The timing was off a little

BW= 216.0. Drank alot and didn't sweat...probably dehydrated a bit

[mbasic]

10+1+2017 Sun.

--PIN PRESS--
45*10; 95*6; 135*3
160 5*5... E4m rests

--BRO SHIT--
SS:chest fly mach.&Rev Flyes
4*10 70#

Lat pushdown swing down
4*10 27.5#ea side

[mbasic]

10+2+2017 MON

NOTES:
Didn't sleep well: leg cramps and/or RLS again all night
New dog waking up at night.
I think I slept for 90 minutes at one point. Otherwise, every 45 minutes woke up.

--SNATCH--
95x3; 120x3; 145x2; 170x2 shitty reps; 190x1 good; 205x1x3misses, two were close

--CLEAN n JERK--
135x2; 135x2; 165x2; 195x1; 225x1; 245x1; 265x1x2 misses, crash in clean, and clarked #2

--HBBS--
135x5; 205x3; 255x5; 225x5x2

Coming to terms gains on classic lift gains have come to an end. SN~205 / CJ~260.
Going forward going to focus on my pathetic squat,
realizing my strength needs to go up now and there nothing else that needs to be done.

New program as follows.(won't seem too different, but is).
HLM set up.
Goal is to get squat from 265x5 - 315x5 over 8-10 weeks or so. . . see what happens.
And not just "finding my way up to" a grinding shit set of 5RM that takes 1 1/2 weeks to recover from . . .
. . .but a legit 315x5@8 with good form, speed, balance, etc.
I know 50# doesn't seem like a lot; but for me it is, especially right now.
It seems every time before, I just go too fast and get the loads too high and wind up grinding myself into dust.

Going to keep minimal classic lifts in there to keep the motor pattern, but super light weight/low volume.
Maybe like barely microload over the course of this block.
Classic pulls will remain the same weight throughout.



DAY 1 - THURS - (hvy sqt / lite pull / hvy ohp)
-SNATCH: only about 8 singles, super lite: 135-175 by 5# jumps, this should totally not derail squats
-HBBS: 1x5 @8; 2x5 back offs
-OHP: 1x5 @9; 1x5@8ish; 2x6 lite
-SNG PULL: 4x3 @ 225 for 8-9 weeks

DAY 2 - SAT - (lite squat / lite ohp / med pull)
-SN DROPS/OHS something: super lite
-CLEAN PULL: 275 5x5 for 8-9 weeks
-SOME STUPID ASS ROW THING. 4x10

DAY 3 - MON - (med squat / med press / lite pull)
-SNATCH: super lite, same as monday
-C&J: super lite; like start at 175-225 by 10# jumps (6x1's)
-HBBS: med: say 90% of Day1's top set for x5; then 2 backoffs a little lighter as well
-PIN PRESS: 5x5 @7-8.5

Maybe either Sun or Tues somekind of GPP BroDay, or something . . . if have I time.

Ultimate goal here is to come out of this block, and then quickly get to 225/275 on SN/CJ.
It'd be nice if the press moved back up near old numbers.

[Kregna]

So have you found it hard to increase squat / strength lifts whilst improving the Snatch / C&J?

[mbasic]

So have you found it hard to increase squat / strength lifts whilst improving the Snatch / C&J?

Yeah, I guess so.

But more so, there's just nowhere to go now without getting stronger.
I was just trying to see how far "it" would go . . classic lift PR's.
My snatch was stuck around 205-210 for a couple of months or more now.
The CnJ was still going up, so I let that ride trying to make PR's every week.
So now there's nothing left to do BUT get stronger.

I'll reset the classic lifts, and just do them "light" with low volume.
And try to push the Squat up.
I always grind myself into powder, on everything.
I need to learn to trust the process and be patient.
. . .point my data points are skewed in the regard . . ..
. . . don't know if my input is going to help much.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10+5+2017 THURS - (heavy, strength day)

-SNATCH- (just maintenance)
. 95x3; 120x3;
. x1's: 135; 145;150;155;160;165;170;175
. focus on butt down and knees out in first pull
. stay over the fucking bar

-HBBS- (strength)
. 135x5; 185x3; 235x1
. 265x5; 235x5x2
. best balance/midfoot ever...lite weight though.

-OHP- (strict)
. 95x5x2; 135x3; 160x1;
. 185x5@10 fuck; 165x5x2; 135x7
. too heavy/grindy; repeat next week see if gets better/easier (@9)

-SNATCH PULL- (helps with techinque/ light pull)
. 225 4x3
. keep butt down / knees out in 1st pull

This felt like I left something on the table, right when I left the gym.
But a couple hours later, my legs felt pretty heavy...little fried.
I need to trust the process.
Disaapointed the 185x5 OHP felt so heavy.
-------------------------------------------------------------
10+6+2017 FRI
Quail Hunting . . .I mean hiking aimlessly though the desert.
(2) 1 hour sessions: 6:45-7:45 higher Sonoran desert; 8:30-9:30 low Sonoran desert
. . . legs tired, out of shape.
Logging because this is my LISS.

[mbasic]

10+7+2017. SAT

--OHS--
95*5; 135*5; 155*5; 175*5
.first time doing these in a long time

--CLEAN PULL--
225*3
275*5 hook
275*5*3 straps

--PIN PRESS--
95*5; 135*5;
165*5*4

--SUPINE ROWS--
(strict, no floor-touch)
155*8
165*8*3

[mbasic]

10+9+2017. MON

SN (maint. only)
95*3; 120*3 whoa wtf; 120*3; 135*2
145;155;165;175
Completely rebuilding snatch.
Very interesting concepts playing their way out.
The opposite of Rips way is so much faster.
It's so nuanced it's impossible for me to explain.
I think many of the OlyWhores don't even get it...just repeating what theyve been told....
But I'm begining to understand now.
I can see why Rip thinks the way he thinks.

CnJ (just maintenance)
135 3+2; 135 2+2; 165 1+1
185;195;205;215;225

HBBS
Power went out at gym at this point.
135*5; 185*3; 225*1; 245*5
Got kicked out, fire code thing.
Was gonna do back off, oh well.
Maybe this is what I needed...a true light day.

Work terribly busy and fucked up.
Want to write a long ass "blog" post about the snatch.
No time.

[damufunman]

Looking forward to that snatch post... curious what you think about the start position.

[mbasic]

this isn't it.
but here:

Why do you want lower hips on the snatch bro?

Its where I have to be for my shoulders to be directly over the bar (barely slightly in front of actually).
The tension of the upper back, and quads are totally different. Its hard to describe.
Your hip might wind up being closer to the bar, which improves leverage, maybe.
Throughout the whole lift, its like your different segments move thru less of their respective arcs.
Simpler, quicker, more efficient. Tension builds up in the first pull for a breief moment, and then is released in the 2nd.
It seems like you wind up being much quicker thru the 2nd & 3rd pull (under).
Its funny, I for sure feel like light weight don't go as high, but I feel wicked fast (LOLx10[SUP]10[/SUP] I know, right) going underneath.

Seems like I'm cutting off my extension, starting to pull under too soon.
But I'm not per the video.

Its more consistent in a way. More "consistently fast" thru the final-extension-pull-under-catch.
Its hard to explain. I won't be able to fully vet the new technique for another two months.....(committed to my strength goals I just set)
and now playing with the knees now adds another aspect to the whole thing also.

My best doing Rip's way, bar mid-foot (as close as possible for me), higher hips, shoulders way over the bar . . .
was 190#
BW was 222+/- IIRC / Squat was 315 4x5 / DL 440x1

Now, with lower hips i nearly SN'd 215 (arm lock out was iffy). That was the 3rd SN session using the "lower" cue.
BW is 216 / squat not even 3 playt for 1RM / DL don't even know . . .probably 405 for 1RM.

The recent "knees" thing is really a game changer.
Seem to trick me into extending the 1st pull higher, to where my knees stay back father . . . and therefore the DKB in less pronounced.
I need to play around with it more with heavier weights, but I'm not going to do that now.

It will be interesting.

[damufunman]

I had a couple of low hips snatches that felt a bit faster, but I'm really not practiced enough to tell the difference. Maybe this week my back will let me go heavy and I can see how it goes. I think the back going through a smaller angle change could be helpful for consistency, but wouldn't a larger change allow more acceleration to the bar?

[Chris]

Checked out Max Aita's technique triad (or whatever the hell it's called)?

[damufunman]

I have, not really impressed. Waste of $30 or whatever it was. Basically just said pull bar high, drop down low, keep it close. Here's exercises to help improve each of those.

[Kregna]

this isn't it.
but here:

Why do you want lower hips on the snatch bro?

Its where I have to be for my shoulders to be directly over the bar (barely slightly in front of actually).
The tension of the upper back, and quads are totally different. Its hard to describe.
Your hip might wind up being closer to the bar, which improves leverage, maybe.
Throughout the whole lift, its like your different segments move thru less of their respective arcs.
Simpler, quicker, more efficient. Tension builds up in the first pull for a breief moment, and then is released in the 2nd.
It seems like you wind up being much quicker thru the 2nd & 3rd pull (under).
Its funny, I for sure feel like light weight don't go as high, but I feel wicked fast (LOLx10[SUP]10[/SUP] I know, right) going underneath.

So basically more tension in the quads/upper back? But is that first pull the least important part of the movement apart from getting you into position for the 2nd pull? So any way you get to the same position would work just as well?

I'm obviously new to this but the people I've seen use low hips just end up in the same place for the 2nd pull anyway (hips over the bar)? In fact, starting with low hips and shoulders less forward seems odd when you want the shoulders more forward for the 2nd pull.

The SS method would have your shoulders just in front of the bar, which is where you want them for the 2nd pull even in the low hip position, right?

Hope that gibberish makes sense. Basically it looks to me that:
1. Low hips end up with hips higher and shoulders in front of bar in time for 2nd pull anyway
2. If you want the shoulders in front of the bar for the 2nd pull, why not start with them that way?

Thoughtz?

[Kregna]

I could be wrong but it looks like mattiecakesssss uses a higher hip position in the clean and snatch: