Cardio options?

[asdf]

Cool thanks. You have good ideas. I wish you had a log here. . . .

I'll probably give this a shot very soon, though the dips will interfere with bench, so I have to time it right.

Thanks. I have a log but it contains too much personal info. Maybe I'll start one here and just update it weekly, copying and pasting, and then editing out locations and whatnot.

I like to do that circuit after benching or pressing, in the same session. But yeah, I hear you. Interference is the bane of my existence. Long trail runs, Olympic lifts, slow lifts, track work, and metcons. Everything interferes with everything.

[psmith]

Step-ups, certainly. I've done those for an hour with an 80# pack.... I used to regularly do 10-minutes of 80# sandbag get-ups, but that's not a bodyweight movement.

I'd be mighty interested in seeing a writeup of your experience with that training cycle.

(And, of course, interesting suggestions generally ITT.).

[asdf]

I'd be mighty interested in seeing a writeup of your experience with that training cycle.

(And, of course, interesting suggestions generally ITT.).

I did it nearly a decade ago and didn't take any notes other than recording the workouts. But the training itself was a Rob Shaul Military Athlete program entitled "Afghanistan Pre-Deployment Training Plan." You can find pdf copies of the original 2009 program on the web, though he's selling what I assume is an updated version on his site: https://mtntactical.com/shop/afghanista ... ning-plan/

It was a 6-week, Monday through Friday with weekends off structure that went like this:

Monday - DOT Drill and Step Ups
Tuesday - Distance run, moderate pace
Wednesday - Sandbag Getups and Leg Blasters
Thursday - Ruck in kit, with 25# in ruck sack, carrying weapon
Friday - 300m sprints and Calf Tabatas

It's a progressive program, with the last week of training including 1,000 step-ups with 40# in less than 50 minutes, a 5-mile ruck, and 20 minutes of 80# sandbag get-ups. The "leg blasters" on Wednesday are brutal. It's a circuit of air squats, lunges, jumping lunges, and jumping squats that adds eccentric training that's useful for the purpose of the program (preparing to hike up and DOWN mountains). As you can see, there's no upper-body work, so I added circuits of pull-ups, chin-ups, push-ups, and dips. Can't remember which days (or the exact format), but I'm guessing Tuesday and Friday.

Since doing the program, I've kept both step-ups and sandbag get-ups in my mix, though I tend to use a 60# bag these days.

One workout that I really like with step-ups is to do as many rounds as you want of...

Run 400 meters
50 step-ups

A steady pace for me is finishing each component under 2:30. So approximately 5 minutes per round. 12 rounds and you've run 3 miles and done 600 step-ups in less than an hour. That probably doesn't sound like much, but it's not easy running after the step-ups. I typically use just 25# for the step-ups when doing that particular circuit. It's a decent substitute when I can't trail run but want to pretend that I am.

[psmith]

I did it nearly a decade ago and didn't take any notes other than recording the workouts. But the training itself was a Rob Shaul Military Athlete program entitled "Afghanistan Pre-Deployment Training Plan."

For sure, I'm doing it myself right now (more or less), thought your description sounded familiar. Do you remember whether you thought it worked? Too much, too little, anything you would have done differently knowing what you know now?

The step-up/run supersets are an interesting idea. I've been doing my step-ups in boots anyway and I'm not crazy about repeatedly putting on/taking off a pack for short intervals, but then again, what the hell, no reason I couldn't do them in running shoes and as long as between-interval time is reasonably consistent from session to session who cares?

[asdf]

Do you remember whether you thought it worked? Too much, too little, anything you would have done differently knowing what you know now?

Yeah, I think it worked pretty well for my purposes. I wasn't deploying to Afghanistan, but I was stuck in a completely flat location, having to prepare for weeks of long steep hikes, day after day. Training in the mountains would have been better (and more enjoyable), but that wasn't an option.

If you're preparing for something with known demands, tweak the program in that direction obviously. In my case, I ran farther than was prescribed on Tuesdays, and instead of rucking on Thursday, I walked farther and with a heavier pack.

I don't know that the shuttle sprints or sandbag get-ups really helped me that much, but they were a nice break from the straight-forward motion.

I thought the calf Tabatas and "plank walk ups" were silly and I'm pretty sure I dropped them after the second week. (I may not have been right in that decision, but that's what I did as best I recall.)

I liked the DOT drill and thought it was good for strengthening my ankles in absence of running rocky trails. I think I decided to do it several times each week as part of my warm-up, not just on Monday. (I still do it several times a week; it's fun.)

[psmith]

^^^neato, thanks for the review.

Oh, also, this may be unnecessarily pedantic, but any word on step-up box height? I know Rob says 16"-19" and taller is harder (but also potentially harder on the knees), but have you noticed a meaningful difference in training effect from different box heights? Found a sweet spot?

(of course, I guess this will also vary with inseam length and maybe even pack loading, so your answer may not be my answer. Well, whatever, if we can't shoot the breeze about minutiae what are training forums even for?)

[asdf]

I'm short and yet typically use an 18.5" step because that's what I happen to have. I did the Afghanistan program in a park, stepping up on a picnic bench. No idea how high that is, but it sucked.

In general, I like the box or bench to be low enough that I can step up using just the lead leg (not pushing off with the back leg) and that allows me keep moving continuously. So yeah, the optimal height will vary with the load.

Depending on age and other factors, I think starting with too high a box can lead to hip flexor issues. Probably best to progress the height just like volume and load.

This is probably obvious, but you can change a box height easily by stacking bumper plates on top to make it taller or on the ground in front of the box to make it shorter.

[cole]

I need to cardio, but really don’t like it. I need something indoors, so I can keep an eye on the kids, while getting prettier.

My wife has a Peloton. Fifteen years ago, I used to love cycling. Rode all over Europe, and then got lost for a year in Central America. But I hate stationary bikes, even her fancy one. I would rather have my sack waxed, than spend 30 minutes on it.

We sold off our clothes drying rack, aka treadmill, years ago. Couldn’t stand running in place. She wants the Peloton Tread, but it isn’t happening.

I’ve convinced myself to buy a concept 2. I’ve never rowed, unless you count dinghies; and never sat on a stationary one. Those Amazon reviews, though... Man, take my money.

Am I nuts? Any other indoor equipment options I should consider?

i just take the dog on a walk. although, he is 120lb 2yr old lab so he pulls me into a speed walk. oh and ps according to my doc i am obese.

[BigE]

I appreciate the conversation, ideals, and contributions.

Ragholmes was a soothsayer though. I had given up the ideal, since I didn’t want to drop $1k on something I may not like. A mint looking Concept 2 PM3 with only 53k meters popped up on Craigslist. I shot out an offer, and had the lowest “bid.” Everyone else fell through, and the seller was tired of the hassle. So I picked it up at a great price last night. If I don’t like it, I easily can flip it and come out ahead.

[psmith]

I did the Afghanistan program in a park, stepping up on a picnic bench.

Me too, actually, though the park I've been using has a perhaps surprising range of bench heights.

Right on, I'll see how it shakes out for me once the program ends and the season starts but your notes have been interesting and informative. Thanks!

[Ragholmes]

Ragholmes was a soothsayer though.

We all do it. I just posted a thread about a neoprene belt/wrap thing I was thinking about buying. I think once you're at the point of posting a thread then you're already going to buy it. I only needed one person to validate or enable my purchase, and would've ignored all the naysayers.
The only thing that would've stopped me from making that purchase was if the whole community rose up against me, dragged me out in the street and tied me to stake.

[davidcc]

Airdyne for HIIT. For LISS I use an old-school Nordic Track ski machine that I got off of eBay for a crazy-low price. Very easy to keep my heart rate in the Maffetone-approved range for 45 - 60 minutes while watching TV.

[cwd]

i just take the dog on a walk. although, he is 120lb 2yr old lab so he pulls me into a speed walk. oh and ps according to my doc i am obese.

I get my cardio walking my dogs too.

A couple times per week I wear a weight-vest on my walk. I started with 10 lbs, adding weight gradually for the last 15 months. Now up to 57 lbs.

With the vest on, I weigh about 230 lbs. At that weight, walking at 3.5 mph is serious cardio. About like running unweighted for me.

Respect to all the heavy people walking! I can't imagine running at this weight, it would destroy me.

[Allentown]

It's not that bad.

Wait, no, it sucks.

[broseph]

Just to chime in:

I hated the C2 rower for LISS. Low back feels like the limiting factor (probably did it wrong), it’s too loud to watch TV or listen to a podcast, earbuds always fall out (didn’t have wireless at the time), your hands are tied up for the entire session, and your balls kind of pop in and out from between your legs (depends on underwear and anatomy).

Seems like most people love them though.

[BigE]

It's not that bad.

Wait, no, it sucks.

We all do it. I just posted a thread about a neoprene belt/wrap thing I was thinking about buying. I think once you're at the point of posting a thread then you're already going to buy it. I only needed one person to validate or enable my purchase, and would've ignored all the naysayers.
The only thing that would've stopped me from making that purchase was if the whole community rose up against me, dragged me out in the street and tied me to stake.

That’s pretty much it. Once the wife goes along, it is over.

[BigE]

Just to chime in:

I hated the C2 rower for LISS. Low back feels like the limiting factor (probably did it wrong), it’s too loud to watch TV or listen to a podcast, earbuds always fall out (didn’t have wireless at the time), your hands are tied up for the entire session, and your balls kind of pop in and out from between your legs (depends on underwear and anatomy).

Seems like most people love them though.

IDK if I’ll get into and/or have time for LISS if the near future.

I’ve got tighty whiteys for working out. Things get unholy otherwise.

[asdf]

I'll see how it shakes out for me once the program ends and the season starts but your notes have been interesting and informative. Thanks!

May I ask what season you're referring to?

[psmith]

May I ask what season you're referring to?

Summer(ish) employment with the Forest Service. Lots of traipsing up and down hills with a pack.

(Onboarding has actually been delayed up to a couple weeks as a delayed consequence of the shutdown, which threw me off a bit in the context of a 6-week program. At first I thought I'd just repeat week 6 a couple times, but after today's session I don't think it's in the cards. Maybe week 6/easy week/repeat week 6. It's mostly the step-ups.).

[TimK]

Summer(ish) employment with the Forest Service. Lots of traipsing up and down hills with a pack.

Don't let @Allentown find out you have his dream job. He'll be so jealous.