ChasingCurls69 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:12 pm
in the back squat you can see the see-saw thing happen a bit but not particularly bad, and I'm not really seeing it at all for the front squats.
So who were you thinking of when you said this, "The wildest thing is watching olympic lifters basically see-saw their squats up while making 50000 posts about how they squat high bar and super upright for specificity." Can you link a video? (Or maybe you don't want to be calling anyone out.)
Not trying to argue, just want to understand. Feel free to ignore this.
ChasingCurls69 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:12 pm
in the back squat you can see the see-saw thing happen a bit but not particularly bad, and I'm not really seeing it at all for the front squats.
So who were you thinking of when you said this, "The wildest thing is watching olympic lifters basically see-saw their squats up while making 50000 posts about how they squat high bar and super upright for specificity." Can you link a video? (Or maybe you don't want to be calling anyone out.)
Not trying to argue, just want to understand. Feel free to ignore this.
Not any particular high level lifters, but more of the recreational oly lifter archetype like the ones I've seen in my gym. I'll try to find a good example without calling anyone in particular out.
If you go below parallel, then either your hips have to go back a bit (if your knees stay fixed), or your knees have to come forward (if your hips don't go back). So for deep squats you're going to have in or the other.
ChasingCurls69 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:21 pm
Not any particular high level lifters, but more of the recreational oly lifter archetype like the ones I've seen in my gym. I'll try to find a good example without calling anyone in particular out.
No worries. Don't go to any trouble. Thanks for clarifying.
mgil wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:12 am
Yeah, end of ROM knee slide forward that’s a result in change of angle at the ankle as opposed to the knees sliding backwards when the hips are also sliding backwards on the way up. The latter seems to be from weak quads.
damufunman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:48 am
Good points, @OCG and @ChasingCurls69. Though it seems like you're arguing against knees sliding back, right? I think the OP was referring to knees sliding forward during a low bar squat and why is that a problem? @mgil could you clarify?
It's the same thing really. Unless you're talking about like, that maybe 1 inch of forwards movement at the bottom everyone does. But I've never seen someone bounce their knees forwards and not immediately bounce them back on the way up. But yes, the knees will not be perfectly fixed at the bottom, there will be 1-2" of movement. But they shouldn't bounce forwards.
damufunman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:24 pm
If you go below parallel, then either your hips have to go back a bit (if your knees stay fixed), or your knees have to come forward (if your hips don't go back). So for deep squats you're going to have in or the other.
JohnHelton wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 1:08 pm
Is this knee slide at the bottom of my squat?
Others are certainly more knowledgeable. That said, the bottom of reps 2 and 3 look like classic knee slide to me. Rep 1 your knees look pretty still.
I slide the heck out of my knees at the bottom of the squat. It isn't an issue until I start getting knee pain. I can still squat heavy even when my knees are grumpy if I try to eliminate knee slide. That said, I hate squatting that way (like Rip specifies)...it doesn't feel at all natural to me. When I was at a SS seminar, I nearly fell over backwards while squatting because they had me pushing my butt back so stupidly far.
JohnHelton wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 1:08 pm
Is this knee slide at the bottom of my squat?
Others are certainly more knowledgeable. That said, the bottom of reps 2 and 3 look like classic knee slide to me. Rep 1 your knees look pretty still.
I slide the heck out of my knees at the bottom of the squat. It isn't an issue until I start getting knee pain. I can still squat heavy even when my knees are grumpy if I try to eliminate knee slide. That said, I hate squatting that way (like Rip specifies)...it doesn't feel at all natural to me. When I was at a SS seminar, I nearly fell over backwards while squatting because they had me pushing my butt back so stupidly far.
I started doing it in order to bury my squats. I have a really short torso (fused spine as a child for scoliosis, 5'8" with a 32" inseam) with long legs. When I hold my knees back, I have to bend over so much at the hips that I can't get depth. I also feel like I get a crap load of bounce out of the bottom. After which I immediately fire the quads and then the hips. The form seems to be working, and I don't have knee issues. This is why I'm a proponent of Mike T's self-organizing technique. https://articles.reactivetrainingsystem ... technique/ Tough to sell books with that approach though.
@JohnHelton, it’s knee slide, but it only matters if you’re in pain from it (highly unlikely) or a coach that can financially benefit from charging money to fix it because it’s a supposed power leak.
mgil wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:52 pm
@JohnHelton, it’s knee slide, but it only matters if you’re in pain from it (highly unlikely) or a coach that can financially benefit from charging money to fix it because it’s a supposed power leak.
In the end, it’s not a big deal.
Good. Just one more way for me to reject the SS dogma. I've really unlearned most of what I started with at this point.
JohnHelton wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 1:08 pm
Is this knee slide at the bottom of my squat?
Others are certainly more knowledgeable. That said, the bottom of reps 2 and 3 look like classic knee slide to me. Rep 1 your knees look pretty still.
I slide the heck out of my knees at the bottom of the squat. It isn't an issue until I start getting knee pain. I can still squat heavy even when my knees are grumpy if I try to eliminate knee slide. That said, I hate squatting that way (like Rip specifies)...it doesn't feel at all natural to me. When I was at a SS seminar, I nearly fell over backwards while squatting because they had me pushing my butt back so stupidly far.
JohnHelton wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:47 pm
I started doing it in order to bury my squats. I have a really short torso (fused spine as a child for scoliosis, 5'8" with a 32" inseam) with long legs. When I hold my knees back, I have to bend over so much at the hips that I can't get depth. I also feel like I get a crap load of bounce out of the bottom. After which I immediately fire the quads and then the hips. The form seems to be working, and I don't have knee issues. This is why I'm a proponent of Mike T's self-organizing technique. https://articles.reactivetrainingsystem ... technique/ Tough to sell books with that approach though.
Umm. Yes, trying to keep the knees back will make it feel like shit. It sounds like you're both trying to squat with vertical shins or shins behind the knees which is a shit position for most people. The fix (in this case) isn't to keep the knees back, it's to get them forwards earlier in the squat, so that they're already that far forwards in position by the time you're about halfway down. This will also lead to you being more upright on the way down, which is probably a better position for you. And stop bending over to start the squat. That's only a slightly better cue than staring at your taint.
@OCG, I think when you set your knees may be a Fluctuators rather than an Attractors in Mike T. vernacular. I like to squat naturally, as I would in an air squat. When I do otherwise, I squat less weight or don't get depth. This is the gist of the self-organizing technique. Advanced lifters can learn what works for themselves through trial and error, over time.
ETA: Looking at my squat again, I set my spine angle half way down and reverse that on the way up. So I do the reverse of the SS prescription. That approach may not be orthodox, but I've never had a good morning squat.
