Exodus Strength

No secret banning of members.

If someone has done something that requires that they be banned, the fact that they are banned, be it permanent or temporary, should be posted.
Preferably with indications what rules have been violated.

Administrative transparency is required to maintain a positive relationship with management, please and thank you.

Additionally, on a site with multiple people who have the power to ban members, I'd hope some sort of consensus would be required.

Was someone secretly banned? I didn't know that anyone has been banned aside from Shug, Stevan, and Russian bot accounts. But I guess that would make sense, if it was done secretly...

I agree with this proposed rule.

Also, if you're gonna move a thread that was purposefully posted in the highest traffic, non-training forum so that the issue raised could be seen and discussed, make a note about it in the thread.

Mysterious action conducted by unknown powers is uncool.

tersh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:16 am No secret banning of members.

First, no one has been banned. Second, we issue suspensions and bans as necessary, and the member is notified.

If someone has done something that requires that they be banned, the fact that they are banned, be it permanent or temporary, should be posted.
Preferably with indications what rules have been violated.

And reasons are indicated in the "reason for ban" section of the moderation panel, which displays to the individual as well. There will be no public "list of shame" or what have you.

Additionally, on a site with multiple people who have the power to ban members, I'd hope some sort of consensus would be required.

Yes, all moderator actions are discussed among the moderator team.

Also, if you're gonna move a thread that was purposefully posted in the highest traffic, non-training forum so that the issue raised could be seen and discussed, make a note about it in the thread.

This thread was reported to the team as it was not in the correct forum. The team discussed it, and a mod moved it as a result.

I would remind you of this excerpt from the rules, the full version of which can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18

"Moderator decisions and actions are not open to public discussion. Contact a moderator or an administrator privately to discuss these issues."

So who else was in favour of the banning? @Manveer, @mgil ?

Cody wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:44 am

tersh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:16 am No secret banning of members.

First, no one has been banned. Second, we issue suspensions and bans as necessary, and the member is notified.

If someone has done something that requires that they be banned, the fact that they are banned, be it permanent or temporary, should be posted.
Preferably with indications what rules have been violated.

And reasons are indicated in the "reason for ban" section of the moderation panel, which displays to the individual as well. There will be no public "list of shame" or what have you.

Additionally, on a site with multiple people who have the power to ban members, I'd hope some sort of consensus would be required.

Yes, all moderator actions are discussed among the moderator team.

Also, if you're gonna move a thread that was purposefully posted in the highest traffic, non-training forum so that the issue raised could be seen and discussed, make a note about it in the thread.

This thread was reported to the team as it was not in the correct forum. The team discussed it, and a mod moved it as a result.

I would remind you of this excerpt from the rules, the full version of which can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18

"Moderator decisions and actions are not open to public discussion. Contact a moderator or an administrator privately to discuss these issues."

I'm aware of what the rules are...

but I would remind everyone that it was a bunch of arbitrary, non-transparent banning and moderation that led people to found this forum.
And thus greater transparency in such actions, even if they aren't subject to debate, might be a thing people would approve of.

tersh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:16 am No secret banning of members.

If someone has done something that requires that they be banned, the fact that they are banned, be it permanent or temporary, should be posted.
Preferably with indications what rules have been violated.

Administrative transparency is required to maintain a positive relationship with management, please and thank you.

Hey tersh. I can see where you are coming from, especially given that this forum is an offshoot from the SS forum. I don't really like the idea for a few reasons, though:
-It is kind of a public shaming
-It adds some tedious work for moderators to maintain the list
-There is always criticism from people who might not know the full story, which can be time consuming to respond to.

Only two members have been permanently banned that I can think of.

Requiring a unanimous decision on bans is kind of tough - we are all working, might be in all-day meetings or traveling or dealing with something more important than an online forum (mostly) about lifting weights. Bans don't happen often.

TimK wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:18 am Was someone secretly banned? I didn't know that anyone has been banned aside from Shug, Stevan, and Russian bot accounts. But I guess that would make sense, if it was done secretly...

Nikipedia was given a temporary ban.

tersh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:39 am Also, if you're gonna move a thread that was purposefully posted in the highest traffic, non-training forum so that the issue raised could be seen and discussed, make a note about it in the thread.

Mysterious action conducted by unknown powers is uncool.

Moving the topic was requested by another forum member.

unruhschuh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:08 pm So who else was in favour of the banning? @Manveer, @mgil ?

I didn't vote for or against. I was eating my breakfast while on a conference call.

I am a moderator on bodybuilding.com. My personal rule is that I don't moderate any thread in which I'm a participant (except for spam, obviously). That's not required by the forum, but I think it makes things more fair and objective. I just hit the report button and let someone else sort it out.

Manveer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:29 pm

tersh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:16 am No secret banning of members.

If someone has done something that requires that they be banned, the fact that they are banned, be it permanent or temporary, should be posted.
Preferably with indications what rules have been violated.

Administrative transparency is required to maintain a positive relationship with management, please and thank you.

Hey tersh. I can see where you are coming from, especially given that this forum is an offshoot from the SS forum. I don't really like the idea for a few reasons, though:
-It is kind of a public shaming
-It adds some tedious work for moderators to maintain the list
-There is always criticism from people who might not know the full story, which can be time consuming to respond to.

I can totally understand this.

To your points:
I don't think public shaming is a bad thing, if it has been earned. That kind of social pressure is kind of what keeps things civil in a lot of contexts. The additional tedious work is a hassle, yeah. I don't think a "list" needs to be maintained, though. A post in the thread that prompted the banning would be sufficient, IMO. If people care enough about the subject, they can find it.

I can go either way on the criticism thing. I tend to view moar discussion == moar better. But I understand the concern, and it has the potential to be divisive.

Manveer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:29 pm Only two members have been permanently banned that I can think of.

Requiring a unanimous decision on bans is kind of tough - we are all working, might be in all-day meetings or traveling or dealing with something more important than an online forum (mostly) about lifting weights. Bans don't happen often.

In most cases, I don't think a ban is likely to be so pressing that the decision needs to be made super quickly. I think a more deliberative process is probably better than one that happens fast. If a mod thinks someone is egregiously breaking the rules, like threatening someone or doxxing them, or the like, then sure, prompt action is required. But that's rare, and will hopefully continue to be the case. If I were in that situation I would simply ban them, document why, and then go to the rest of the staff for approval.

Manveer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:29 pm Nikipedia was given a temporary ban.

Fancy that.

Manveer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:29 pm

tersh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:39 am Also, if you're gonna move a thread that was purposefully posted in the highest traffic, non-training forum so that the issue raised could be seen and discussed, make a note about it in the thread.

Mysterious action conducted by unknown powers is uncool.

Moving the topic was requested by another forum member.

Yeah, that's fine. I don't really object to the move, this is more likely the appropriate forum for it. I totally forgot this one existed!
But I do object to it happening with no explanation, warning, or discussion.

I also object to it having been locked for no reason.

Cody wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:44 am

Additionally, on a site with multiple people who have the power to ban members, I'd hope some sort of consensus would be required.

Yes, all moderator actions are discussed among the moderator team.

So, specifically, who discussed the action we're talking about. Manveer wasn't involved. @mgil?

KyleSchuant wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:33 pm I am a moderator on bodybuilding.com. My personal rule is that I don't moderate any thread in which I'm a participant (except for spam, obviously). That's not required by the forum, but I think it makes things more fair and objective. I just hit the report button and let someone else sort it out.

This.

unruhschuh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:43 pm

KyleSchuant wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:33 pm I am a moderator on bodybuilding.com. My personal rule is that I don't moderate any thread in which I'm a participant (except for spam, obviously). That's not required by the forum, but I think it makes things more fair and objective. I just hit the report button and let someone else sort it out.

This.

Yeah, this sounds like a good potential addendum to the rules.

I'm not a big fan of being overly transparent with Moderating - if I were to believe that shit was being done unfairly I'd probably just stop posting - but it depends on the case I guess...

More to the point I don't think we as Members should expect the Moderators to tell us "how they voted" on an issue.

I go away (due to hectic work/personal life) and come back to this stuff? This is why we can't have nice things! But also just weighing in here, the mods aren't just randomly banning people left and right.

The people that I know of that have been banned permanently have been given temp bans before as warnings, then continued their ways and were removed permanently. You will typically know who was banned, and why very quickly so I don't think a public display or post about the banned person/s is necessary. I feel that doing this will also create an environment where people will begin to judge others more on what they have heard about them, rather than their own interactions with them.

As far as moving a post from one thread to another, yeah that can be annoying, but its not a huge deal to me.

Given the small number of bans and that the moderators are, IMO, doing a fine job, I'd leave well enough alone.

The issue I see with this specific incident is that 2 members (including a mod) made posts directed at each other that were arguably reportable as harassment, and not even in the Shitposting forum. Niki posted in response, and was unilaterally given a month-long ban by the mod. Who had just told another member to suck his dick. Not in Shitposting. When I reported the other 2 posts, they were simply scrubbed of their harassment.

cgeorg wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:40 am The issue I see with this specific incident is that 2 members (including a mod) made posts directed at each other that were arguably reportable as harassment, and not even in the Shitposting forum. Niki posted in response, and was unilaterally given a month-long ban by the mod. Who had just told another member to suck his dick. Not in Shitposting. When I reported the other 2 posts, they were simply scrubbed of their harassment.

yikes.

The ban was clearly an overreaction and frankly an embarrassment. Doesn't matter that the mods aren't banning people left and right. This particular ban is wrong on many levels and should be reverted immediately.

Manveer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:29 pmI didn't vote for or against. I was following my vacuum cleaner around the house

Mmmhmm