The sartorial thread

[GrainsAndGains]

I second the recommendation on the prAna jeans. They're all I wear, I buy them whenever they are on sale. I have pairs that are 3+ years old and have seen heavy use and they're still in OK condition without a ton of fading. I've squatted in them quite comfortably.

[brkriete]

I started buying the Lee Extreme Motion jeans after seeing them recommended here or FB.

They are super comfortable and easy to move in and the cut is good for people with a moderately developed ass and legs. They also look "professional" for jeans (no weird stitching or extra pockets) so work fine for a casual office environment and launder well. They won't win you any credibility with denim-heads and aren't super durable but they are usually around $30 bucks (I ordered two pairs for $15 on Prime Day) so getting a year out of pretty frequent wear before the crotch blows out seems reasonable to me.

[Allentown]

I still recommend the Prana Bridger Jean. My wife's favorite pair of my pants. Comes in longs. Sizing is a little strange, but they are pretty good with returns. Full disclosure, I get them when a 50% off deal comes around. My thighs are 24" and the pants are snug-ish. They are pretty stretchy, they are made to climb in if you wanted.

DYEL?*
On a serious note, 24" thighs in what waist size? 24" thigh in a 32 nominal (34 actual) waist with some stretch could be a great pair of pants.

* My thighs are also barely over 24"

Pants are a 34 waist. Also 34 length.
And no i mostly just exercise.

[stuffedsuperdud]

Potentially relevant:
https://www.spierandmackay.com/collecti ... iquidation

Spier and Mackay seeing the writing on the wall and pulling the plug on suits for now (and realistically, does anyone think these things are actually coming back?). For those of you not familiar, these things are incredible value for what they are, basically Brooks Bros quality at Jos A Bank prices. The plaid ones can be easily split up and worn as sportcoat and odd trousers. The solids are harder to break up but hey, for $200 you have a sweet workhorse suit in the bullpen for when things are normal again.

The casualwear that they are pivoting to are good too (I love my polos and knitwear from them), so maybe take a gander as long as you're there.

[cgeorg]

Hey guys,

I'm getting married in 3 months. We're doing an outdoor gig, thinking I'm going with a dark charcoal 3 piece, neutral on the vest and tie, with a yellow or orange pocket square. Where should I be looking for the suit, and what should I be looking for in it? Ideally some place that handles decent alterations as well, I don't have a good tailor that I trust. Feels like Brooks Bros gets a good bit of press here? Obligatory @stuffedsuperdud tag.

[Brackish]

Hey guys,

I'm getting married in 3 months. We're doing an outdoor gig, thinking I'm going with a dark charcoal 3 piece, neutral on the vest and tie, with a yellow or orange pocket square. Where should I be looking for the suit, and what should I be looking for in it? Ideally some place that handles decent alterations as well, I don't have a good tailor that I trust. Feels like Brooks Bros gets a good bit of press here? Obligatory @stuffedsuperdud tag.

I don't know a good suit from a bad suit. Got my suit from Jos A Banks when I got married. It was from their Traveler Series, or something along that line. It looked decent on me, and the price wasn't bad at all. What impressed the every-loving shit out of me was that, after returning from our honeymoon, my wife (not knowing any better) literally threw the entire suit in the washing machine, normal settings. Then, she pulled it out and tossed it in the dryer...again, normal settings. And the suit survived. Not only did it survive, it looked the same as it did the day I wore it for the wedding. It also happens to be the only suit I own, and I haven't worn it since I got married. So, take my input with a grain of salt.

[stuffedsuperdud]

Hey guys,

I'm getting married in 3 months. We're doing an outdoor gig, thinking I'm going with a dark charcoal 3 piece, neutral on the vest and tie, with a yellow or orange pocket square. Where should I be looking for the suit, and what should I be looking for in it? Ideally some place that handles decent alterations as well, I don't have a good tailor that I trust. Feels like Brooks Bros gets a good bit of press here? Obligatory @stuffedsuperdud tag.

Congrats on this next step! So a few questions first on what exactly to look for. Is this something that you would like to use later on, or is this a crazy one-time thing? It sounds like you're leaning towards something conservative so I am assuming you'd like to get some use out of it later. If so, what other tailored garments (suits, sportcoats, dress trousers etc.) you currently have in your wardrobe? If it's a one-time thing, or a special-suit thing, we can get a bit more adventurous. Remind me of your height/weight/build again? Certain brands seem to specialize in certain body types, and blocky lifters can be a bit outside the slim-fit trend.

after returning from our honeymoon, my wife (not knowing any better) literally threw the entire suit in the washing machine, normal settings. Then, she pulled it out and tossed it in the dryer...again, normal settings.

That's grounds for an annulment right there.

[cgeorg]

Congrats on this next step! So a few questions first on what exactly to look for. Is this something that you would like to use later on, or is this a crazy one-time thing? It sounds like you're leaning towards something conservative so I am assuming you'd like to get some use out of it later. If so, what other tailored garments (suits, sportcoats, dress trousers etc.) you currently have in your wardrobe? If it's a one-time thing, or a special-suit thing, we can get a bit more adventurous. Remind me of your height/weight/build again? Certain brands seem to specialize in certain body types, and blocky lifters can be a bit outside the slim-fit trend.

Thank you! My current suit/coat/slacks situation is pretty dismal. I have a black suit with light white pinstriping that's not well tailored, and a light gray target suit. I don't want this one to be a one-timer, I'd like to finally have something that actually fits and looks good to wear in general suit situations, and I'll very likely get rid of the other suits or relegate them to storage. Bonus points I guess if the jacket could be worn on it's own, but that's so far down the list I don't think it should be considered.

6', 190 on creatine, and I've been climbing rather than lifting much for a while so I have an ok V, and a naturally bubbly ass, but not too much left in the way of quads. Levi 502s seem to fit my lower half pretty well, and it's near impossible to find shirts in an athletic enough cut to not pull around the chest/pits while also not being a complete tent at my waist.

[Cellist]

Bored now. Don’t listen to me but I like Navy. Wool is a must, like 110. A mid grey, Cambridge, not too light also works well in the setting and season and is very versitile. Three piece (w/vest) is not dead a bit more formal for the occasion and you will look very ’put together’ on the day and not have to worry about your shirttails and look cool without the jacket. Also you don’t need to wear the trouser low, like jeans and the trendy, less formal cuts. The fit of the jacket makes or breaks so start trying stuff on and have it tailored on time. With your height and build, not too hefty thighs, I’d look for front pleats, and side adjusters rather than belt loops since you’ll be wearing braces (suspenders) under the vest. Your shoes (no boots) should be black balmoral Oxford with a “toe cap”. Definitely not shiny patent leather, but french calf. To allow the ring and your brides accessories to stand out, leave you 42mm chrono at home. Look at suit supply Lazio Navy, (wool silk linen) https://suitsupply.com/en-at/men/suits/ ... P5741.html It also comes in the Same E Thomas blend in grey, but listen to ssd not me.

[stuffedsuperdud]

Bored now. Don’t listen to me but I like Navy. Wool is a must, like 110. A mid grey, Cambridge, not too light also works well in the setting and season and is very versitile. Three piece (w/vest) is not dead a bit more formal for the occasion and you will look very ’put together’ on the day and not have to worry about your shirttails and look cool without the jacket. Also you don’t need to wear the trouser low, like jeans and the trendy, less formal cuts. The fit of the jacket makes or breaks so start trying stuff on and have it tailored on time. With your height and build, not too hefty thighs, I’d look for front pleats, and side adjusters rather than belt loops since you’ll be wearing braces (suspenders) under the vest. Your shoes (no boots) should be black balmoral Oxford with a “toe cap”. Definitely not shiny patent leather, but french calf. To allow the ring and your brides accessories to stand out, leave you 42mm chrono at home. Look at suit supply Lazio Navy, (wool silk linen) https://suitsupply.com/en-at/men/suits/ ... P5741.html It also comes in the Same E Thomas blend in grey, but listen to ssd not me.

LOL this guy. No need for the self-effacing. Don't forget you helped me find some gray wool flannel trousers awhile back (indeed you were the only one who seemed to understand what I was asking for at all). That stuff was hard to find for a long time but it looks like guys have a few more options these days.

@cgeorg Given that you're kind of starting from scratch, I would actually second (viking)@Cellist and suggest blue rather than charcoal. The reason is, charcoal is a very somber suit but in this ever-casualizing world, and who knows where we'll be after the pandemic lifts, you might not have as many occasions for it, whereas a navy or medium blue suit is a bit less serious, and the jacket alone is easier to pair with khakis, jeans, polo shirts etc. as part of a smart-casual look.

Style-wise, for the jacket, two buttons in front and 3.5" - 4" notch lapels and side vents in the back; fortunately this is the default template for most brands. The subtle differences between seemingly identical jackets are typically in the structure of the shoulder and the position of the buttons in front. The shoulder can range from totally unpadded (which they sometimes call spalla camicia or shirt-shoulder) to very padded, like in American Psycho. More structure tends to mean more formal as you look stiffer and stiffer, and on lifters this can start looking absurd; I usually prefer what they might call a soft shoulder, where there's just enough structure so that people aren't just looking at the natural lumpy shape of my traps and delts, but not so much that we are in Miami Vice mode. The overall shape of the jacket depends a bit on the height of the top button (the only one you button). If it is too high you will look a bit boxy whereas too low and it'll look slouchy. I typically like to have it about 1" above my bellybutton, just above my natural waist. This is subtle detail that fortunately, someone with your dimensions probably doesn't have to worry too much about, since 6' 190 is close to the "average" that ready-to-wear clothing templates are designed around.

The pants should be medium rise; too low and your shirt will puff out like a muffin top, and, more importantly, it will be visible between your vest and the pants, when a major benefit of the vest is to give you a nice clean line from shoulder to ankles. I second the suspenders: you don't want a bulky belt bulging from under the vest so get suspender buttons put on your pants and you're good to go. Typically pants with suspender buttons don't even have belt loops, and instead of side adjustors as a tool of last resort, when you've lost your suspenders. However, if you're buying ready to wear, it'll probably come with just belt loops, so don't worry about this detail. Just have them add the suspender buttons and you're good to go.

A vest typically comes single-breasted with 5 buttons and no lapels, but they can also be available double breasted and with notch, peak, or shawl lapels. I don't think any are more right or wrong, except that single breasted ones should have pointy bottoms, while double breasted should have flat bottoms. Steve McQueen wore single breasted with flat bottom in The Thomas Crown Affair which you can reference as an example but that went out of style some time after that. Currently, a few lower-end custom makers like Indochino will do double breasted with pointy bottoms and it just looks wrong. My tailor says that people with big chests should avoid lapels as it makes them look even bigger but I like them anyway.

The shoes, I miiiiight be inclined to disagree cellist here. Technically yes a black captoe oxford is what you should wear with a dark suit, especially at a grand event like a wedding, but they're not going to be as useful to you later because they look overly formal for anything except dark suits or at least dark gray trousers + blazer, which I get the feeling isn't really your thing. I would instead suggest a dark brown plain toe, with either derby or oxford style lacing. The two obvious recommendations are Allen Edmonds Carlyle for oxford lacing and Kenilworth for derby style. Derby makes things more casual and a dark brown kenilworth is the most generic shoe ever, which you should have no problem pairing with jeans or khakis later. You can get cheaper things from Cole Haan, J&M, etc. that look similar but if you're up for it, shoes might be a good place to splurge since they last forever.

As to where to get things with minimal fuss, the path of least resistance is probably to just got to a physical department store or nicer menswear store that has a wide selection and a fitter and tailor onsite to help you. Is it accurate that you are in Pittsburgh? That's kind of limiting since it's not exactly a fashion mecca, but you have a Nordstrom I see. That would be a good place to start. I've also heard really good things about Larrimor's, which miiight be overkill but maybe check it out. A year ago Brooks Bros would probably have been the obvious one-stop shop but their ongoing bankruptcy problem puts them in a weird flux and they had to shut down their suit factory, so I am not sure what inventory they have or who makes it.

Wherever you go, I'd suggest starting with something in the $300 - $700 price range as this is generally the sweet spot balancing quality and price. Cheaper than that means a boxy suit made out of crap fabric. More expensive and you get into diminishing returns. Hart Schaffner Marx makesa great, moderately priced workhorse suit (my own navy blue suit is from them) and Ted Baker, and Peter Millar are also widely available and solid options for a similar price point. Samuelsohn, Canali, Hickey Freeman and Ralph Lauren's Polo line (not the "Lauren Ralph Lauren" line which is trash) will cost a bit more but if it fits and the fabric feels good, you'll have one hell of a suit.

Nordstrom will also have the shoes to choose from. Aside from what I mentioned previously, To Boot NY and Maganani are also pretty good. If you are willing to play the online game, Cobbler Union and Thursday might be worth a try.

These places will also have ties but for a cheap and quick option, thetiebar.com will get the job done. I would suggest a medium-width one, 3" - 3.5", in off-white silk. At 6' a regular 58" length should be okay but you might be leaning towards a 63" if you want to tie a bigger knot. If you want to get fancier than Tie Bar, Chipp Neckwear will give you a giant boost in quality for a relatively small increase in price. The silks will feel smoother and without that sheen that can show up in cheaper version, and the body of the tie will drape more beautifully, but if you're wearing a vest it's not really visible anyway.

The vest is a bit trickier as they don't really make standalone vests anymore, except maybe in brown or green tweeds for walking around in the woods. I saw that Charles Tyrwhitt has a few potential options in light colors but that's about it. This one you might have to

Is there any chance you can get out to Philly for a day or three? That would greatly expand your choices for ready to wear. If you were there, I would second Cellist that SuitSupply is probably your best bet. A lot of their stuff is too slim for a lifter, but I've found that their baseline Napoli fit works for me and my 5'9" 220lb frame. You might be able to get away with their slimmer Lazio fit too, which would give you way more options (they don't make many in Napoli fit). They have tailors onsite and you can get simple alterations back while you wait. Also, they have a pretty decent made-to-order program where you can get that odd vest made for like $200. They're a one stop shop for shirts ties and shoes too, although from talking to former sales associates, it seems that those items are really more to pad their margins, and aren't of the highest quality.

If you want to risk online and then find a local tailor, Charles Tyrwhitt is without a doubt the ultimate one-stop shop. I wear their pants in the wider "Traditional" fit, and their jackets in "slim" fit, and it all fits great. Quality isn't quite as high as SuitSupply with respect to fabric and construction but it's quite affordable and still a very wearable suit. Their suits usually come with a vest option, and like I said they have odd vests to pick from too. They also carry shoes and of course, their core product is the shirts. I have a lot from them, in their extra-slim fit, which is good for those of us with a big neck:waist ratio. I wear a 17.5" neck and 36 - 38 pants. If your neck is smaller, then maybe their slim will be okay. Neither should fit like a tent. They have a store at King of Prussia Mall if you can make it out there, and then you can get sized up accurately. I don't know if they have tailoring onsite.

The other online-only megastore is Spier & Mackay, the current darling of the mid-market #menswear verse. They're definitely coming to cut CT's grass, but as of right now they specialize more in suits and casualwear, not shirts. Their suits currently have probably the highest quality to price ratio out there, but you might end up having to buy and return a few to find one that fits best, and will still have to find a tailor. If you are three months out though, you do have time. I have their suits, shirts, and sweaters, and love wearing them. They also have a made-to-order program for vests.

Okay this is turning into a massive data dump so I'll cut it off here. Let me know if you have any questions or if anything needs clarifying. If you pick out a few things, feel free to run them by me and I can provide more specific feedback. Have fun!

[cgeorg]

Thank you both very much @Cellist and @stuffedsuperdud. Talked about it with the soon-wife and since, while I would like it to be a generally useful suit, the primary purpose is to get married in it, we are going to stick with a more formal charcoal. Checked out Nordstrom's stuff online, dug the look of some Ted Baker stuff. Went to the store today. Tried on a good bit of stuff - Ted Baker, Peter Millar, Canali (damnit), Boss. Baker and Canali were the top 2... pics, with a too big shirt that causes some lines but I think you can still get a feel?

Ted Baker, 44R, ~$800


Canali, 44R, ~$1800, didn't have charcoal in my size but did have this fucking gem:


Canali 46R jacket in charcoal just to see the color:


God that blue Canali the fabric and the fit, I've never felt anything like it. I don't want to pay that much. I'm probably going to end up talking myself into it? help.

Anyway, a couple little folds in the upper back of the Ted, but I think those can be tailored out? Both have a slight divot at the top of the shoulder which I think isn't great? Do I just need to do lateral raises for a while or is this a concern? Also why does the button on the Canali seem to pull even though it's not tight? Is this button height, and not alterable? The Canali just really seems to fit my back perfectly.

[Cellist]

As it's Sunday and I'm bored again, here we go: The grey color looks good on you. To me, neither of those suits look like they fit ideally off the rack in those pics, but I don't have the eye, experience or the imagination to know if or how they could be tailored to fit better. With Ted Baker, where you're standing up straight with your arms hanging at the sides, I don't see a good shoulder fit. I'm pretty sure that it's well nigh impossible for a tailor to change that if it has to do with the size and shape of the arm hole or sleeve. Muscular shoulders, triceps and biceps probably need more room.

It sounds like you are smitten with the "feel" of the Canali 44R suit. I can identify with that aspect since for me performing wearing an uncomfortable jacket is a pain. It might be whether they are fused or canvassed. I don't like the feel or look of most fused jackets. The pricy Canali is probably a full-canvass so it not only would look better, but also feel good and last longer. The 46 is too big across the shoulder. The 44 is acceptable, but the right shoulder has a crease or maybe a divot, so I'm again not so sure. You might need a bigger or lower armhole. I can't really tell if you might not want to have the waist taken in.

The main thing a tailor can do, besides fitting the trouser length and waist, is to shorten/lengthen the arms of the jacket. For that, you need to try it on wearing a well-fitted dress shirt. What I’m seeing could be from the jacket sleeve catching on your shirt cuffs so it can’t hang. What do you think about what @stuffedsuperdud said about a shoe in dark brown? it looks like you're wearing some slip-ons.

[cgeorg]

I didn't plan ahead well, so I was using the slip-ons they have there. I think I'll pick shoes after the suit - I have some cheaper black cap toes and slightly less cheap but still not that nice medium brown cap toes that we can use to judge color fit. Next time around I will be wearing a fitting shirt and I'll slap on a pair of my own shoes as well.

The shoulder divots on both coats do concern me, and ... I don't think the guy at Nordstrom's was that helpful in figuring out the finer bits of the fit. I might need to look at other shops around here. Larrimor's doesn't seem to have a lot of selection based on their site https://larrimors.com/mens/clothing/suits/

Back to the divots... Does this mean I maybe need a less structured shoulder, so it falls a bit ? Maybe my sweet sweet traps (lol) are causing the shoulder to ride too high, and I need a cut that's a bit more sloped?

Re: feel, the fabric just felt much "drapier". It felt like it hugged and fell on my body naturally, like the fabric itself was less structured than the other suits, without looking thin/cheap. It also seemed pretty breathable which I think I value in a suit.

[Cellist]

I think the divots have to do with the armhole in terms of position shape and size. For a bespoke suit, the tailor takes your measurements and can adjust for individual build and posture. OTR is an approximation, but different brands or lines will be slightly different. From what I understand this was somewhat addressed in the old days by cutting larger and lower under the arm. More recently, there’s an effort to emulate the look and comfort of a bespoke fit, which fits up higher under the arm. For some customers, it works fine. Usually a good salesperson will have you try different jackets and throw out ones that don’t fit you. Also, since the in-house tailoring is included, that person will pin up everything that needs to be altered like arm/leg length, waist, maybe even seat and leg with instructions for the one doing the sewing. I know no other way than to try on all the jackets you can find until you find the best fit in the shoulder. It looks like you’re getting the length and the chest size close. A good person on the floor is important for getting a nice fit. Maybe if you have the money, the upscale place is worth it. Or maybe you would have better luck fitting into something less fashion forward.

I found this about Canali, so they do half canvas, not full:
https://www.mjbale.com/blogs/manual/the ... o-delassio

TED Baker Site says they has their own fusing technology they call deConstructed.

[Cellist]

Wearing grey twill Tyrwhitt chinos, a white Eterna shirt, green knee high socks with a black stripe, Timberland chukka in tan suede with light crepe sole and a blue merino zip sweater. The jacket is an off brand charcoal tweed windowpane with 3 buttons and no vents. Still waiting for a response from the professional, but I keep checking back. I think @cgeorg could do better. Rather than add to my last post, I'll start a new one and just in case nobody noticed, we're still in lockdown until Feb. 15. The govt leaders will meet today and decide to extend until the end of the month. For me this means I'm teaching my students from home via Zoom. It also means I haven't been to the gym since December. The rp diet app advised me to do maintenance. I didn't track nutrition at all and well I gained. I do some walking everyday, but no real cardio and no home workouts. I haven't got a garage for a gym.

In the sartorial department, I don't have much reason to go out except to shop for groceries. Nothing else is allowed anyway. I kind of got into the habit of putting on the same jeans and hoodie and wearing adiletten. My dress shirts get worn for the Zoom lessons and then go back into the closet. For shopping I put on my winter boots and coat. I finally gave myself a haircut (LOL). Thinking about the wedding suit situation, I decided to try on my grey flannels, which I haven't worn since last spring. Then I went through some jackets and other dress pants and found out they are definitely tight. I can get things buttoned, but the lapels on the tighter fitting jackets pop. The thing is, I had most of my stuff sized within the last year or so when I lost about 3 inches on my waist. Anyway, with another 3 weeks of lockdown and then slowing getting things back to normal, I really need to start moving in the other direction or I'm going to have to replace a lot of my clothes.

If you're still reading, I been thinking and it might be the shoulder pads go out too far over your shoulders. They should really just go a little bit beyond the bone. For someone with the DYEL look (me) the fabric will hang straight down, but for a guy with muscular arms, the sleeve will take the shape of the delts and triceps. I assume you ended up in a 44R rather than a 42 because the chest was too tight. I don't know for sure, but you might want to look into a made-to-measure suit. Online there's the indochina outfit and black lapel and I think Suitsupply will do it in person, but you might be able to get a better fit for the same money as Canali OTR. You need a few weeks time and probably someone who knows how to measure. Check out the how the shoulder fits in the video at this link: https://www.kuhn-masskonfektion.com/Fla ... 00432-3001

[stuffedsuperdud]

@cgeorg hey I'm back. Sorry, I was out of town for a week taking care of my company's biggest client while my VP nervously Skyped me every few hours asking how things were going, so lots of long days and hungry nights because nothing was open except the convenience store across from my hotel, which didn't leave a lot of time.

So it looks like @Cellist kind of has it covered but my 2c, for what it's worth:

The Ted Baker looks a bit sloppy from behind right now but that can all be fixed. A tailor should be able to tuck in all the extra fabric and things will end up relatively clean. I think the shoulder is a bit too structured for you, as you are already kind of swole up there, but this is a matter of preference, and there are guys who actually prefer this extended shoulder.

The Canali though....NICE. The shoulders look a touch softer and I love how clean everything drapes on your back and chest. There's a bit of wrinkling around the button yes but I would ask the tailor what he thinks. It might go away if he played around with the side seams of the jacket and in any case isn't actually noticeable. The "bad" kind of slop when the jacket is too tight is generally quite noticeable as a big x on your front. The second pic in the blue suit is pure sex. I want to talk about your smoldering gaze the way John Oliver talks about Adam Driver's...anything. Your photographer's looking almost as thirsty as I am. Style-wise, I agree the charcoal Canali is a great color on you, at least in these pics. It's not as dark as my own "charcoal" suit and isn't overly somber, and complements your hair color nicely. In fact, I might go as far as to say that on you it looks better than the blue. Obviously the answer is to just get both and be all set on suits for the forseeable future.

I remember from that pic you posted a long time ago in the black pinstripe suit that you had some tough proportions...What's your typical pants inseam btw? It might be the camera angle, but from here and the old pics, it looks like you have the torso of someone who is 6'3" and the legs of someone who is maybe 5'9". I mention this because a general rule of thumb with jacket length is that it should be about half distance from your neck to the ground, as shown here:



The more well-known guidelines are that your hands should be able to cup around the bottom of the jacket and/or that it should cover your butt, but I think this is better guide than those two. For people with shorter legs, a slightly shorter jacket can often help balance this out. In your case, again, I can't quite tell from these pics and I don't have a tailor's trained eye, but I think you might want to see what a 44-short looks likes on you. My concern is that everything will be shorter, proportionally, including the button, which might end up too high on you. Another thing you can do is have a tailor shorten the 44R. This is considered a difficult alteration and risks throwing off the proportions of the jacket, but in your case it might be helpful. Again, the tailor will be the most knowledgeable. Was he around to offer any suggestions? Typically at Nordstrom, the sales guy will call him over once it looks like the customer is about to buy, but I don't know what's going on in the pandemic era.

Don't worry too much about shoulder divots. This is a bit of an over-exaggerated problem grown slightly out of proportion by the #menswear crowd 10 years ago who only had 1930s celebrity pics to go on, in which guys like Clark Gable were carefully posed. What we call shoulder divots aren't cause simply by the size of your arm vs the size of the armhole but also by the shape of the armhole. The hole is not perfectly round but an oval, and if the shape of the oval does not complement your shoulder geometry, the divot can become more pronounced, yes. However, any time the shoulder of a jacket has any structure, if you look hard enough you will eventually be able to find certain angles where you can make out the bit of space between the structure of the shoulder and the position of your natural shoulder. In the case of the Canali, from the side, sure I can see the outline of the structure, but this is nothing egregious.

Likewise, I wouldn't worry too much about half canvas vs full. The canvas of a jacket serves essentially as a stiffening skeleton, giving mechanical structure. Without it, the jacket would just be a limp fluttery sheet of wool that hangs on your body like a shirt. Compare the front and back of any jacket to see what I mean: the front is where the structure is while the back is just a sheet of fabric, with no support. Half canvas means that they use canvas to form the shape of the lapels and define how they roll over on your chest, and then use a polymer sheet called a "fusing" for the bottom front of the jacket, where structure is not quite as strict. Full canvas means they use canvas for the entire jacket, which is the "correct" way of doing it; using fusing is a bit of a shortcut. However, for practical reasons, canvas vs. fusing is really only noticeable (in both look and feel) in the chest and lapels, and at the bottom front of the jacket it's pretty indistinguishable. Also, the fusing used to be a weak point in a jacket and would start disintegrating when dry cleaned, but I don't think that that is the case anymore.

You do have time to go custom, which might be worth asking the store tailor and salesman about. Custom at Nordstrom typically means that they will take a jacket that is pretty close to fitting perfectly and then calling the factory and telling them to make little tweaks to ready-to-wear jacket in question. The custom garment comes a few weeks later and the store tailor will dial it in for you. However this is of course more complicated than just having the store tailor modify a ready-to-wear jacket for you. They used to have relationships with Hart Schaffner Marx, Hickey Freeman, and Samuelsohn, but that might not be the case anymore; the sales guy will know this best.

[cgeorg]

I remember from that pic you posted a long time ago in the black pinstripe suit that you had some tough proportions...What's your typical pants inseam btw? It might be the camera angle, but from here and the old pics, it looks like you have the torso of someone who is 6'3" and the legs of someone who is maybe 5'9".

Really good memory. Yeah, I think I do have shorter legs and more torso. I'm not sure actual inseam, but I wear a 32 inseam in Levis without excessive bagginess, and I think I wear them a bit low. Lemme grab a tape... Bottom of balls to ankle is about 29"

If I go for a 44S, how much can the sleeve generally be let out? I guess that's a question for the tailor. I don't know if they were there while I was, but Bob did not offer to have them come give any feedback. I can call down and verify they have a 44S in and then head down and try it. I need to get my groomsman down there to look anyway. That's another sucky thing here... even if I talk myself into $1800, he and I need to look appropriately coordinated.

The more I look the more I can talk myself into most of the arm badness being due to the sucky huge shirt the salesman got me to use. Why grab me a suit that's over 2x what I came in looking for if you're not going to try to make it look great on me? Here, have french cuffs with no links. Lazy.

[stuffedsuperdud]

I remember from that pic you posted a long time ago in the black pinstripe suit that you had some tough proportions...What's your typical pants inseam btw? It might be the camera angle, but from here and the old pics, it looks like you have the torso of someone who is 6'3" and the legs of someone who is maybe 5'9".

Really good memory. Yeah, I think I do have shorter legs and more torso. I'm not sure actual inseam, but I wear a 32 inseam in Levis without excessive bagginess, and I think I wear them a bit low. Lemme grab a tape... Bottom of balls to ankle is about 29"

If I go for a 44S, how much can the sleeve generally be let out? I guess that's a question for the tailor. I don't know if they were there while I was, but Bob did not offer to have them come give any feedback. I can call down and verify they have a 44S in and then head down and try it. I need to get my groomsman down there to look anyway. That's another sucky thing here... even if I talk myself into $1800, he and I need to look appropriately coordinated.

The more I look the more I can talk myself into most of the arm badness being due to the sucky huge shirt the salesman got me to use. Why grab me a suit that's over 2x what I came in looking for if you're not going to try to make it look great on me? Here, have french cuffs with no links. Lazy.

Okay well, from your #s it sounds like you're not doing any sort of penguin-mode so maybe the 44R will suffice. I would probably try the R and the S and see what the tailor thinks. He will be able to inspect the sleeves and see how much there is, but generally there should be at least 1" or so of extra fabric. He'll also know be able to provide the most realistic assessment of how the wrinkles will clean up. Is Bob the guy in the picture? If so, then maybe he's a perfectly nice guy and a good salesman, but he doesn't look too knowledgeable or interested in this stuff..

I talked to a friend of mine who works in the men's dept at the Nordy in McLean VA and he said that they still have Hickey Freeman Made to Measure. I wonder if this might be worth a shot for you? The cost will probably be similar or perhaps even a bit lower than the Canali (since you're not paying the Canali premium) and it'd be made to your specs at the Rochester NY factory (same place that makes Polo Ralph Lauren). I think the turnaround time is only a few weeks, which will give you plenty of time. The tailor will be able to advise if it'd be worthwhile to do this. The sleeves thing...yea that's a goof on Bob's part. He could have just grabbed you one of those cheapo store-brand shirts and it would have gotten the job done....

For your friend, how matchy-matchy are you guys getting? Because if your suit is charcoal, then as long as his is medium to dark gray, I think you'd be fine. (The identical clothes thing is a recent invention, but that's a separate rant.) If you are really into the idea of identical suits, then yea, unless he's a clothes guy or a rich guyy, he's probably not going to want to spend that much on something he might not use much.

[DoctorWho]

This thread somehow always over-delivers. @cgeorg , congrats on the wedding. @stuffedsuperdud , I didn't know that we share the perfect ht & wt combination -- the ones God intended to be ideal. Didn't know about Suit Supply right here in Philly/KOP Mall.

I'm unqualified to comment about the topic except for one thing. I wished I had a black or very dark grey suit as I've been to too many funerals in a short amount of time -- suits are still normal. Probably an old-guy issue but thought I'd mention it.

[stuffedsuperdud]

This thread somehow always over-delivers. @cgeorg , congrats on the wedding. @stuffedsuperdud , I didn't know that we share the perfect ht & wt combination -- the ones God intended to be ideal. Didn't know about Suit Supply right here in Philly/KOP Mall.

I'm unqualified to comment about the topic except for one thing. I wished I had a black or very dark grey suit as I've been to too many funerals in a short amount of time -- suits are still normal. Probably an old-guy issue but thought I'd mention it.

The difference is you actually wrestled with this body whereas I was a pussy and quit after one season of riding pine and puking a lot during conditioning.

SuitSupply is probably a bit of a stretch for you if we are shaped alike, but it's not as hopeless as before. They've also released a new option where if you see a fabric you like, but it's only available in one of the slim suits, you can have it made as a one-off on one of the more lifter-friendly Napoli template for a very fair upcharge. Maybe not necessary if you want a boring solid dark suit, as that's what they generally make the Napolis in.

Enzo Custom also has a Philly office if you want a suit made-to-measure; they were once a surefire recommendation I've now ordered one suit since the pandemic and it was...cheaper...than the ones before. Nothing major, just a sprinkling of little shortcuts plus a reduction in customization options which once distinguished them from cheaper made-to-measure outfits. I get that they're trying to cut costs to get through this shit, but it's disappointing that they're sacrificing something that made them special to me, probably on the idea that the average customer won't notice.

If you want to spend some fuck-you money and you are in Philly, John DiPietro is the only choice. He's the city's last true bespoke tailor, the thing where he measures you up and then you have to return every few weeks for a fitting. I know a guy who goes to him, and his work is, needless to say, beyond anything we can imagine, and at a reasonable price too, unlike more famous tailoring houses like those on Savile Row. If you do end up trying this, definitely let us know, post pics, and have fun.