Sumo and Conventional more similar than you think?

[bobmen10000]

Rori Alter put up a short video and helpful venn diagram (second slide on of her post) on IG comparing the similarities between conventional and sumo deadlift. Is sumo just a wide conventional pull with different hand placement? And even if so, those two thing alone seem to make a big difference...right?

https://www.instagram.com/rorimegan_prs/

[Manveer]

They are very different. They are less different if you have a pretty narrow sumo stance, as she does. Look at Bryce Krawczyk’s sumo vs conventional (I think I’ve seen him pull conventional). There are more extreme examples too, like Jason Luo (toes to plates).

Edit: Here you go...

[Stenson]

From my limited experience with sumo, narrow stance sumo feels more like a conventional pull than it does a wide stance sumo pull.

[Sumo]

...her sumo does looks like a wide stance conventional, so there's that.

If you want something a bit more meaty about the differences and similarities of the two stances you won't find anything better than Greg Greg Nuckols' article on How to Deadlift.

[gtl]

High bar and low bar more similar than you think?

[mettkeks]

Big difference in mechanics, but they eventually achieve the same things as long as you keep the sumo stance reasonably narrow.

The widest stance I can possibly hold does not feel different from my prefered sumo stance while I am performing the lift, but it leads to a different set up. The farther my legs go out, the more I have to point my toes out and the more upright my back becomes. The hips go lower. During my prefered sumo stance, my back is actually not as vertical as it is during conventional pulls. It doesn’t make lockout more difficult, though. My grip goes further in. Many times, I am not even on the knurling anymore.

It’s not narrow enough to be semi sumo, which is interesting. My hands and especially thumbs keep bumping into my thighs when I try semi, and that distracts me very badly.

I narrow my grip approximately 2" per side to where the knurling ends and put my shins inside the rings. I run into the same problem as you describe but since I don't see any point in hook-grip anymore, straps make it tolerable.

[mettkeks]

Indeed, that is much more pronounced in the hook grip than it is in double overhand for me. And that’s the last thing I want, a (almost) failed lift, just because the grip slips or my fingers get caught up.

I don’t ever pull maxes with straps (if I can’t hold it, I can’t lift it) but they are great for backoffs for this exact reason.

It's not about being able to hold on to the bar, rather about performance. After a year of hook-grip only, alternate grip is still way ahead of hook, despite having thin palms with long fingers. My job is a signifcant factor affecting my grip performance, and straps let me concentrate on more important things than just grip. Straps result in faster and cleaner reps rather than more weight for me.

[mbasic]

Rori Alter put up a short video and helpful venn diagram (second slide on of her post) on IG comparing the similarities between conventional and sumo deadlift. Is sumo just a wide conventional pull with different hand placement? And even if so, those two thing alone seem to make a big difference...right?

https://www.instagram.com/rorimegan_prs/

I'd disagree. I've only tried once or twice, but I believe my morphology dictates that conv. DL is way superior for me.

when I tried it, I basically sumo'd like she does here....basically narrow stance.

yeah, after looking how she sumos, yeah for HER there's not much difference, not the way she's doing it.

I didn't look at the venn diagram tho.

"Are you confused about sumo conventional?" ... "become even more confused about it with this oversimplified click-baity IG post"

[ChasingCurls69]

Rori Alter put up a short video and helpful venn diagram (second slide on of her post) on IG comparing the similarities between conventional and sumo deadlift. Is sumo just a wide conventional pull with different hand placement? And even if so, those two thing alone seem to make a big difference...right?

https://www.instagram.com/rorimegan_prs/

I'd disagree. I've only tried once or twice, but I believe my morphology dictates that conv. DL is way superior for me.

when I tried it, I basically sumo'd like she does here....basically narrow stance.

yeah, after looking how she sumos, yeah for HER there's not much difference, not the way she's doing it.

I didn't look at the venn diagram tho.

"Are you confused about sumo conventional?" ... "become even more confused about it with this oversimplified click-baity IG post"

That's why in the subsequent posts, she really emphasized the start position being dicatated by bar against shins/over the midfoot+shoulders in front of bar, with stance width adjusting hip height further when those conditions are fulfilled. It's not about cueing or mechanics during the lift, although I'd argue they start with the same constraints and start with knee extension, so it's probably still not as different as people say.

[mbasic]

whole thing just seemed click baity

and what others said, her own particular narrow-sumo-style is a bit of a hybrid

so why even post it except to make noise

"omg, i can't believe the comments"

[Reygunz]

She wrote up and update:

[Sumo]

Proportions this and hip height that, but not a single mention of hip structure and resulting mobility.

[mbasic]

Proportions this and hip height that, but not a single mention of hip structure and resulting mobility.

Yeah. I'm built for coventional (arm length:torso) ....so sumo is not even a consideration for me (most weight used).

But I tried sumo a few times as a accessory/variant thing. And from my Olympic lifting experience/experiments...ive found my hips are NOT mobile....I do not abduct well AT ALL. It's def not for me.

There more to it than just segment lengths

[mettkeks]

I absolutely can't go wide on sumo. I also can't sumo after squats. The narrow hybrid stance lets me train DL heavy while giving my lower back a break however and I feel a little stronger on max attempts, mainly because It's easier to grind them out.

[Reygunz]

Proportions this and hip height that, but not a single mention of hip structure and resulting mobility.

This might be beyond the capabilities of a forum thread, but how would a particular structure of hips not allow you to do one or the other? I probably need an anatomy book to understand this one. Also, I never bought into proportions making one more suitable than the other. I think I agree with Greg Nuckols more on this one and it seems that if you have a thick torso, you seem to lift more conventional and because the conventional demands more from the back, smaller lifters seem to prefer sumo.

Rori has written another update: