Exodus Strength

@KyleSchuant @mbasic @hector

Just listened to a podcast with Kevin Ogar during which he confirms that the barbell did ricochet off the stacked bumped plates and that's what severed his spine. I've never heard him talk about the cause before. In the past he always said he couldn't because of a settlement. Time-stamped:

asdf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:57 pm @KyleSchuant @mbasic @hector

Just listened to a podcast with Kevin Ogar during which he confirms that the barbell did ricochet off the stacked bumped plates and that's what severed his spine. I've never heard him talk about the cause before. In the past he always said he couldn't because of a settlement. Time-stamped:

If you have ever been in any kind of olympic gym, the failed lifts from pulling blocks (analog to a stack of bumpers) leads to some quite hilarious and unexpected bar trajectories .....because right-angles don't mix well with circles. Basic geometry really.

asdf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:57 pm Just listened to a podcast with Kevin Ogar during which he confirms that the barbell did ricochet off the stacked bumped plates and that's what severed his spine.

I believe that's what I said at the time, as those were the first-hand accounts floating around. In IWF meets, the rules are that the platform is supposed to be at least 4m x 4m, and 10cm high, and an area 1m around the platform, "This area must be flat and free from any obstacles including discs."

Training platforms for warmups must be at least 3m x 3m, and it doesn't mention rules for area clear in that case. But we wouldn't expect maximal attempts in the warmup room, so there should be few failed lifts.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to SSFGs, perhaps you had a couple of threads open at once, asdf?

KyleSchuant wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:02 pm

asdf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:57 pm Just listened to a podcast with Kevin Ogar during which he confirms that the barbell did ricochet off the stacked bumped plates and that's what severed his spine.

I believe that's what I said at the time, as those were the first-hand accounts floating around. In IWF meets, the rules are that the platform is supposed to be at least 4m x 4m, and 10cm high, and an area 1m around the platform, "This area must be flat and free from any obstacles including discs."

Training platforms for warmups must be at least 3m x 3m, and it doesn't mention rules for area clear in that case. But we wouldn't expect maximal attempts in the warmup room, so there should be few failed lifts.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to SSFGs, perhaps you had a couple of threads open at once, asdf?

We spoke about it here .... because of crossfit stuff and/or how packed those gyms are or something.

Anyways, the comp platform specs you cite are nice and all that; yes you should have ample room. But you can definitely train olympic lifts on a 8'x6' 2.5 metre x 1.8 metre platform quite safely, even full snatch, if you are proficient in the lifts (most crossfitters are not). The problem is stacking plates everywhere all stupid-like.... AND the whole crossfit-esque aspect trying to do 3RM snatch thing after completing a whole gauntlet of ultra-fatiguing contest exercises prior.

They should have foreseen this and maybe went with a 3RM clean / powerclean or something. .... stupid to do an overhead dynamic lift like a snatch or jerk.

mbasic wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:53 pm failed lifts from pulling blocks (analog to a stack of bumpers) leads to some quite hilarious and unexpected bar trajectories

True. I've lifted in tons of crowded environments over the years. And I've seen bars bounce in all sorts of weird ways. Especially in CrossFit gyms, where Hi-Temp bumpers were very popular. I've never heard of anything even remotely similar to what happened to Ogar. Something still seems strange about his accident.

KyleSchuant wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:02 pm I believe that's what I said at the time, as those were the first-hand accounts floating around.

That is what you said at the time, and I do think it was the consensus view. But in the past, Ogar himself would not attribute a cause to his injury, citing legal reasons.

KyleSchuant wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:02 pm I'm not sure how this is relevant to SSFGs, perhaps you had a couple of threads open at once, asdf?

This is the thread in which we previously discussed the accident.

Yes, the IWF rules specify different sizes for a training and a competition platform for that reason. In training you should not be failing often. In competition it's expected and normal, so much so that if someone goes 6/6 in WL or 9/9 in PL everyone wonders if they could have done more.

And in training in the gym, a smaller space still will be fine. I think a lot of us though don't realise the importance of space, because either we train on our own in a garage, in a spacious dedicated WL/PL gym, or in a globogym where we're one of very few people using the barbells. We take space for granted.

I've also never heard of anything like Ogar's injury happening. But remember that there are many injuries possible which are short of permanently crippling, and which a responsible gym owner will want to minimise the chances of happening. In my double garage, I limit it to 6 people a session (2 per rack or bar on the floor), and those doing quick lifts, if we have more than 3 people in total, they go outside onto the driveway on their own. And yes, this makes the quick lifts a summer activity for us.

Acute injuries in training are rare even with dumb gym owners and gym goers. Overuse are much more common. Too much volume, too soon - anyone who's written a programme for themselves or others has inflicted that on someone, I certainly have, and honest coaches and trainers will admit it. Still - make some space.

I don't remember that, asdf, but then this is a long thread and I have had several concussions in my life.

asdf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:57 pm @KyleSchuant @mbasic @hector

Just listened to a podcast with Kevin Ogar during which he confirms that the barbell did ricochet off the stacked bumped plates and that's what severed his spine. I've never heard him talk about the cause before. In the past he always said he couldn't because of a settlement. Time-stamped:

I fractured my neck when I was a teenager. This is such a scary and sad situation.

Hello all. I first read this thread sometime in Oct 2020 according to my join date, about 1 year into my journey with Starting Strength. I read through the entire thread multiple times and have checked back in periodically ever since. You all and this thread helped lift the veil and expose some serious problems behind SS, training and non-training related. However, I still went through with my pursuit to become an SSC, passed the platform in Oct. 2021, and passed the oral board in Nov. 2021. I held my SSC for over 2 years while working at a Starting Strength Affiliate Gym, and finally walked away a couple months ago. So I feel like it’s only right that I post this here!

wllfm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:11 pm Hello all. I first read this thread sometime in Oct 2020 according to my join date, about 1 year into my journey with Starting Strength. I read through the entire thread multiple times and have checked back in periodically ever since. You all and this thread helped lift the veil and expose some serious problems behind SS, training and non-training related. However, I still went through with my pursuit to become an SSC, passed the platform in Oct. 2021, and passed the oral board in Nov. 2021. I held my SSC for over 2 years while working at a Starting Strength Affiliate Gym, and finally walked away a couple months ago.

So I feel like it’s only right that I post this here!

@wllfm, thanks for posting that.

There’s a lot more in the underworld of this forum about Rip and his cult of personality. Glad you came through it all.

I don't really view the toothbrush-Hitler-"Hail!"-thing as offensive so much as it was just an immature way to get a point across ..... about free speech? I think? .... overreach by our governments? and/or governments worrying about things that don't need legislating against. I might agree with Rip on all of those things.

But its just a so goddamned immature way to go about it. I don't think I want to go into business with someone like that, or have anything to do with the guy. Its like the show-me-your-tits post in his Q&A (I actually forget how that came about) .... or innocent kids in Flint drinking leaded tap water and its their parents fault for living in a democratic/blue state/city or something-something..... what was his fucking point again?

Anyway, regarding the new video, I find it funny we have another example of so SS-affiliated people not even programming anything like SS-methodology for post novices: StrengthCo uses estimated 1RMs percentage based program? and sound like lower intensity too. Andy's Baker's whole schtick/paradigm (more akin to "Power-building" based stuff).

My favorite is all of the rack pulls the SS peeps that have stuck around do. It’s literally the barbell equivalent of loading up the leg press and doing half reps to stroke the ego.

This video prompted me to poke around a bit in the SS sphere and see that those motherfuckers are still weird as hell to the point of divorcing normies and marrying into the “organization”.

Wilson, thanks for sharing. What stood out for me was a few things.

You were more gung-ho about SS when you first tried and failed the exam, than you were later when you passed. This seems to be an experience for a lot of people - not literally that about seminars, but that you reach the top of the hill of your knowledge of the system, and that's when you feel confident enough to start questioning it.

That divergence beginning with being given a non-grindy programme and making good progress. Plus people running themselves into the ground on SS NLP and getting injured, unless there was a coach there to pull them back before they did so. This matches what we got from the NLP Stall Thread of Shame - https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2653.

"I don't know the last time I coached someone to use hip drive." Me neither, I just get them to do high-bar squats these days, more often than not, it greatly reduces the coaching involved, and makes no discernible difference to their results.

Now, to be fair to the SS crew, you've said some things they'd agree with. For example the stuff about older lifters or women, "well but I treat them as individuals." Yes, they'd say, you should treat them as individuals - but here are some guidelines to start with, alter as you see fit. Nor would they suggest you correct every last little mistake on every last rep the person does - coaching out all the mistakes is something they want newbie coaches to do to demonstrate their knowledge of The Method, it's not for the benefit of the lifter. In both cases, these ideas are very poorly communicated, I agree.

Anyway, you may have quit rather than getting excommunicated, but now that you've done so publicly, you are gone, son. That's it.

mgil wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 4:48 pm This video prompted me to poke around a bit in the SS sphere and see that those motherfuckers are still weird as hell to the point of divorcing normies and marrying into the “organization”.

lol wut?

mgil wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 4:48 pm This video prompted me to poke around a bit in the SS sphere and see that those motherfuckers are still weird as hell to the point of divorcing normies and marrying into the “organization”.

Please tell us more.

mgil wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:06 pm viewtopic.php?p=336797#p336797

For those of us not authorised to read that forum?

Also - my first post, hello all!

Iain wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:32 am

mgil wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:06 pm viewtopic.php?p=336797#p336797

For those of us not authorised to read that forum?

Also - my first post, hello all!

Hey there - easiest way to get the nine more posts tonget downstairs would be to start a training log.

Iain wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:32 am

mgil wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:06 pm viewtopic.php?p=336797#p336797

For those of us not authorised to read that forum?

Also - my first post, hello all!

Yeah, if you stick around and participate you’ll eventually be able to see that forum. Set up that way years ago and I don’t think I’ll be changing it.