Scotch Whisky Thread

[Cellist]

We've been discussing this downstairs, but it should really have its own thread. It's different from bourbon whiskey and interesting. Here's a quote from an article about peat smoke flavors:

Smoke flavors in scotch whisky typically come from the smoke of burned peat- decaying bog vegetation on its way to becoming coal- that is used to dry barley. (In the chart above, “peat” referrers to peat smoke.) Smoke flavors are measured in the lab by quantity of phenols, but despite our association with campfire smoke, phenols aging in a whisky barrel don’t blow away on windy days. Rather, they transform there.
Bryan Davis of Lost Spirits Distillery makes a very smoky American whiskey (typically a Scottish practice) and has studied the science behind the smoke. He says, “The longer you age, the more the phenols bond with other things in the solution to form new compounds like phenylated carboxylic esters, which tend to taste like honey. In a way, you trade smoke for honey.”

https://www.popsci.com/what-happens-in- ... lf-century

[hsilman]

I immediately disagree with that chart though. Speysides, even at 10 years(haven't tried an 8) have like, zero peat flavor. Definitely not above the other flavors by a long shot. In fact, I'd absolutely invert the sherry-cask influence vs the peat.

[Cellist]

For most Speyside single malt whisky, you can ignore the line, since most switched to other fuels like coal more than 50 years ago there is no peat smoke to begin with. On Islay, they still fire with native peat, because it's there on the Island. And before you say that's a crude generalization and there are so many exceptions, I'll just say its the easiest, crudest way to put them in categories, ie. Glenfiddich vs. Ardbeg.

[hsilman]

Oh, I agree, don't worry. I don't know enough to really have a better classification. I've only tried a few so far. And basically each time I try, I find different things and some I may not have liked, I like better coming back to them.

[hsilman]

Going to pick up a bottle of highland Park 12 tonight.

Edit: they didn't have it in stock, so I got the bunnahabhain 12 instead for a similar price.

[neandrewthal]

Going to pick up a bottle of highland Park 12 tonight.

Edit: they didn't have it in stock, so I got the bunnahabhain 12 instead for a similar price.

Interesting. I can't remember if that one is unpeated or lightly peated, either way not a typical Islay. I have a bottle in my collection but never tried it yet. You can't go wrong with non-chill filtered, natural color and 46%.

[hsilman]

Going to pick up a bottle of highland Park 12 tonight.

Edit: they didn't have it in stock, so I got the bunnahabhain 12 instead for a similar price.

Interesting. I can't remember if that one is unpeated or lightly peated, either way not a typical Islay. I have a bottle in my collection but never tried it yet. You can't go wrong with non-chill filtered, natural color and 46%.

it's "unpeated" but for an Islay, it still has some smoke to it. I actually really like it. It's got a lot of caramel, oily along with a very light smokey taste. Which is exactly what I was hoping for. I'm glad I got it over the highland park, because it's a nice introduction to peaty scotch.

[neandrewthal]

Going to pick up a bottle of highland Park 12 tonight.

Edit: they didn't have it in stock, so I got the bunnahabhain 12 instead for a similar price.

Interesting. I can't remember if that one is unpeated or lightly peated, either way not a typical Islay. I have a bottle in my collection but never tried it yet. You can't go wrong with non-chill filtered, natural color and 46%.

it's "unpeated" but for an Islay, it still has some smoke to it. I actually really like it. It's got a lot of caramel, oily along with a very light smokey taste. Which is exactly what I was hoping for. I'm glad I got it over the highland park, because it's a nice introduction to peaty scotch.

Highland Park is a good introduction to peat too. I'm trying to figure out how peaty it is compared to the Bunny.

This one seems way off because there's no way the Highland Park is 20 PPM, maybe the peated malt they use (which is mixed with much more unpeated malt) is 20 PPM even though the other link says 35-40:

https://www.theyorkshiregent.com/whisky ... explained/

I think the 1-2 for the Bunny on this one should be in the new make spirit box which would make it about the same as Highland Park:
http://whiskyscience.blogspot.com/2011/02/peat.html

This one seems about right but it doesn't list the HP:

https://drinkhacker.com/2017/10/08/peat ... tes-smoky/

I find every lightly peated whisky ever tastes oily. Sometimes motor oil which isn't nearly as gross as it sounds.

[augeleven]

i'm cheap.

I love Laphroaig, I got a bottle of the triple wood a while ago, but spending 60+ on a bottle of booze is hard to rationalize.
I bought a bottle of Tomatin 12 a while ago for what I remember to be around 30, not nearly as good as the Laphroaig, but still had the sherry cask yumminess. I found it again at a store for more than 40.

What do you guys recommend for Islay stuff on the cheap? Bonus points for sherry cask aged.

[Shane]

i'm cheap.

I love Laphroaig, I got a bottle of the triple wood a while ago, but spending 60+ on a bottle of booze is hard to rationalize.
I bought a bottle of Tomatin 12 a while ago for what I remember to be around 30, not nearly as good as the Laphroaig, but still had the sherry cask yumminess. I found it again at a store for more than 40.

What do you guys recommend for Islay stuff on the cheap? Bonus points for sherry cask aged.

Not an Islay, but with a nice belt of the same mojo, is Talisker Skye. Runs between $60 and $85 mad max dollars, so could just edge in under your frugality threshold. I really love it. But of course I would leave it in a second for an Ardbeg Uigeadail, or sweet jesu christo in a V8 above, a Lagavulin 16 (fuck you Lagavulin, nothing should taste this good). I have bottles of the latter two with about 1ml left that I keep just so I can pop the top and reminisce.

Someone mentioned Highland Park - I had a bottle of the 18 a few months ago, and remember that I also loved it, vague ideas of complex and hard to pin down yummyness, but honestly can't bring forth a description that'd do it justice. Thusly.

I just noticed the Lagavulin 16 is on special at my local for $97 platypus beaks. Now I have to decide how lucky I feel. Whisky lucky, or domestic bliss lucky.

[neandrewthal]

What do you guys recommend for Islay stuff on the cheap? Bonus points for sherry cask aged.

That's what they all say. I did get a bottle of Bowmore 15 "darkest" sherry cask for $83 beaver tails but from what I've seen Bowmore isn't as relatively cheap in the states. Which is to say that Bowmore 12 is around the same price as Laphroaig 10 and Ardbeg Ten there while here it's only 60% the price of the Ardbeg.

[neandrewthal]

And back to the Bunnahabhain: Here's a timely review from yesterday.



Goes to show how there's not really such thing as lightly peated whisky. Just heavily (or moderately) peated whisky blended with unpeated or whisky made from heavily peated and unpeated malts.

And here's the 12 year just for fun:

[throwinshapes]

What do you guys make of these reviews with 10's of different flavors being picked out? You think they're for real? I get if you want to pick out 5 MAYBE 10, but Ralfy just goes on and on. I find Horst Luening a bit more believable.

[Hanley]

What do you guys make of these reviews with 10's of different flavors being picked out? You think they're for real? I get if you want to pick out 5 MAYBE 10, but Ralfy just goes on and on. I find Horst Luening a bit more believable.

I think I buy it.

A musician or sound engineer could pick out (literally hundreds?) of micro-details in timbre and sound-space that most folks would be entirely oblivious to.

Seems like smell/taste could be similar.

[hsilman]

Highland Park is a good introduction to peat too. I'm trying to figure out how peaty it is compared to the Bunny.

Every "taste map" I've seen puts Bunny farther on the peat/smoke side compared to HP 12. But they also put it more towards sherry than caramel/oak, and I think they're crazy for that. So I guess I don't know, but I think any less peat and it wouldn't even count.

[neandrewthal]

What do you guys make of these reviews with 10's of different flavors being picked out? You think they're for real? I get if you want to pick out 5 MAYBE 10, but Ralfy just goes on and on. I find Horst Luening a bit more believable.

Definitely legit and Ralfy is much more credible in general being truly independent and unafraid to call out the industry on its BS while Horst is a whisky salesman and basically makes advertisements.

Horst also reviews on the fly with only 2 sips of a bottle he just opened. Ralfy spends several weeks with the bottle first and writes his tasting notes which he uses for reference in his video.

I think we can agree that just about everyone who is past the "tastes like paint stripper" phase can identify about 3 smells/flavors. I once asked Ralfy how long it took him to be able to confidently identify 5 descriptors instead of only 3 and his answer: about 4-5 years. So he has been really working at it and has had decades of experience since then too. He still maintains that he is not an expert, has an average palate and just about anyone can reach his level of ability with enough experience.

This study shows how many of the same flavor compounds are found in different foods and even alcoholic beverages: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep00196
So it's definitely not just making it up to notice a lot of different flavors. Sometimes you might be actually correctly identifying one of the significant compounds that make a particular food taste the way it does. But I don't think that always has to be the case because we can't really isolate one compound from all the others so there is tons of room for subjectivity. Some people might be more sensitive to some compounds vs others and some might interpret different groups of compounds in different ways so someones tasting notes wouldn't necessarily have to hold up to a chemical analysis to be legitimate.

[hsilman]

I mean, I only have about 12-18 months of experience with quality coffee and I can already distinguish a lot of different flavors. So I believe that alcohol can be the same way, easily.

[throwinshapes]

Fair points.

@hsilman, do you have links to any of those maps you liked? The one's I've seen seem to have rarer ones, at least to what's available to me in NH.

[hsilman]

Fair points.

@hsilman, do you have links to any of those maps you liked? The one's I've seen seem to have rarer ones, at least to what's available to me in NH.

https://www.forwhiskeylovers.com/sites/ ... 0chart.jpg

This is typical of what I've found. I can't speak to rarity because I have a pretty wide selection in NYC.

[hsilman]

bunny 12 is even better with a tsp of water. mmmmmmmm.