There’s probably some curve that will fit, but a line from...
90% —> 7 reps or less
80% —> 15 reps or less
70% —> 30 reps or less
60% —> 50 reps or less
...as a total wild-ass guess is probably something to consider as a rep limit for sessions. This is assuming some sort of decent frequency in training the lift.
I’ve done sessions with something like 75 reps of bench or OHP. It’s usually okay during the session, but the next session or two kinda suck. I’m old though.
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:27 am
by SnakePlissken
mgil wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:48 am
There’s probably some curve that will fit, but a line from...
90% —> 7 reps or less
80% —> 15 reps or less
70% —> 30 reps or less
60% —> 50 reps or less
...as a total wild-ass guess is probably something to consider as a rep limit for sessions. This is assuming some sort of decent frequency in training the lift.
I’ve done sessions with something like 75 reps of bench or OHP. It’s usually okay during the session, but the next session or two kinda suck. I’m old though.
These rules are eerily similar to the BBM template I'm on right now haha. I guess like Mike T says there really aren't any secrets.
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:41 am
by mgil
Interesting. I haven’t really poked around to see where people are setting rep limits. That’s mainly from my own experience.
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:28 pm
by SnakePlissken
I've got a feeling most people fit in this rule of thumb. We all want there to be a magic trick that propels us further when in reality it's simple things like this that really make consistent progress.
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:51 pm
by RyanHartigan
SnakePlissken wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:36 am
If my top set numbers are below expectations and I feel horrible I'll do a -8% LD and keep volume the same.
Or you could set the RPE of the down sets e.g. @8x3 instead of 4@7/8/9/-5-8%x3
SnakePlissken wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:36 am
I'm not sure if it was the low rep ranges on the Squat and DL that killed me or the fact that I was able to do 6 or 7 backoff sets sometimes before hitting @9s again, but then crashing the next week because I was beat up.
That's interesting, I would usually do 1 set before hitting the next RPE, 2-3 on the higher fatigue weeks. It was so consistent that there wasn't any point using fatigue sets because 5% always = 1 down set etc.
How long do you rest?
I've been playing around with velocity at lower %s and I've found I can do like 14+ down sets before velocity drops to the same as the top single @7-8.
They don't fry me though which is interesting, and with the right %ages I seem to respond reasonably well to it. I've only been experimenting with the protocols for a couple of weeks though so time will tell.
SnakePlissken wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:44 am
The first post in this thread has a "modified" RTS GI program written and I honestly wouldn't mind trying it out again as an exploration block
SnakePlissken wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:36 am
If my top set numbers are below expectations and I feel horrible I'll do a -8% LD and keep volume the same.
Or you could set the RPE of the down sets e.g. @8x3 instead of 4@7/8/9/-5-8%x3
SnakePlissken wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:36 am
I'm not sure if it was the low rep ranges on the Squat and DL that killed me or the fact that I was able to do 6 or 7 backoff sets sometimes before hitting @9s again, but then crashing the next week because I was beat up.
That's interesting, I would usually do 1 set before hitting the next RPE, 2-3 on the higher fatigue weeks. It was so consistent that there wasn't any point using fatigue sets because 5% always = 1 down set etc.
How long do you rest?
I've been playing around with velocity at lower %s and I've found I can do like 14+ down sets before velocity drops to the same as the top single @7-8.
They don't fry me though which is interesting, and with the right %ages I seem to respond reasonably well to it. I've only been experimenting with the protocols for a couple of weeks though so time will tell.
SnakePlissken wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:44 am
The first post in this thread has a "modified" RTS GI program written and I honestly wouldn't mind trying it out again as an exploration block
Why not start ES?
Looking back through my logs I was resting about 4-5 minutes between LD sets (which is probably too much in hindsight).
As for starting ES, I think that's my plan. The plan I laid out in my earlier post is pretty similar to what I'm doing now (which is also giving me some of the best results I've ever had). Ideally, I want to make some Development blocks before I start to explore some more.
Day 4: Supp DL (paused or deficit): 1 @ 6-7, then backoffs. These started at 4-5 sets of 6 @ 6-7, then gradually decreased to the last week, which was 5 sets of 3 @ <6
I really like this set up, but I’m a little confused by the last sentence. Are they decreasing in weight? Is it to mitigate fatigue from the comp lift going up? Am I the only one not understand it?
Day 4: Supp DL (paused or deficit): 1 @ 6-7, then backoffs. These started at 4-5 sets of 6 @ 6-7, then gradually decreased to the last week, which was 5 sets of 3 @ <6
I really like this set up, but I’m a little confused by the last sentence. Are they decreasing in weight? Is it to mitigate fatigue from the comp lift going up? Am I the only one not understand it?
I'd imagine they're bumping up in weight, because the RPE is staying relatively similar (slight decrease'ish), but reps are dropping.
So a set of 6@6-7 is still going to be lighter than a set of 3@5.
My guess is it's slightly heavier work, but 1) slight reduction in volume and 2) slight increase in load, to get ready for a heavier pull at the end of a cycle (which is common in RTS and BBM plans).
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:32 pm
by Testiclaw
Interestingly enough, 3@<6 would put you right around 80'ish% e1RM
Day 4: Supp DL (paused or deficit): 1 @ 6-7, then backoffs. These started at 4-5 sets of 6 @ 6-7, then gradually decreased to the last week, which was 5 sets of 3 @ <6
I really like this set up, but I’m a little confused by the last sentence. Are they decreasing in weight? Is it to mitigate fatigue from the comp lift going up? Am I the only one not understand it?
I'd imagine they're bumping up in weight, because the RPE is staying relatively similar (slight decrease'ish), but reps are dropping.
So a set of 6@6-7 is still going to be lighter than a set of 3@5.
My guess is it's slightly heavier work, but 1) slight reduction in volume and 2) slight increase in load, to get ready for a heavier pull at the end of a cycle (which is common in RTS and BBM plans).
Thanks. That’s what I figured, but wanted to double check. I’ve only run one day with that set up, but it felt REALLY good.
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:24 pm
by DPriest442
Did Austin specify what his other lower body training looked like? typically BBM templates have 3 squats and 3 pulls
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:09 pm
by DPriest442
DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:24 pm
Did Austin specify what his other lower body training looked like? typically BBM templates have 3 squats and 3 pulls
In case anyone is interested, I asked Austin on the BBM forums.
He said he did split squats but not additional pulling. He also said if not for bench pain he would program that the same, and while he said before he deloaded less frequently he specified here that he didn't deload at all, just switched from ramping 6/5s to doubles then singles
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:23 pm
by dmorrison2k
A good add to your resources, at least to me:
Can anyone elucidate on the differences, if any, between reps in reserve and RPE? I find these to really, be the same thing but I have heard THE Mike T say, "You know, that's fine if you think about it that way, but I think about them as distinct things." Maybe it was in the interview at WFAC, that was a funny one by the way. I don't mean to misquote, this is my own paraphrasing.
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:15 pm
by RyanHartigan
dmorrison2k wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:23 pm
Can anyone elucidate on the differences, if any, between reps in reserve and RPE? I find these to really, be the same thing but I have heard THE Mike T say, "You know, that's fine if you think about it that way, but I think about them as distinct things." Maybe it was in the interview at WFAC, that was a funny one by the way. I don't mean to misquote, this is my own paraphrasing.
I suppose RPE has some other uses that distinguishes it from RiR, which I presume has no history beyond someone wanting to use RPE but also wanting to reinvent the wheel.
Some of the older RPE models are much more useful imo:
DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:24 pm
typically BBM templates have 3 squats and 3 pulls
This is similar to fatigue %s in that, as the stock RTS templates originally organised the slots 3/3/6 (probably based off a WestSide model) you see that structure flow through the whole coaching cottage industry.
DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:24 pm
Did Austin specify what his other lower body training looked like? typically BBM templates have 3 squats and 3 pulls
In case anyone is interested, I asked Austin on the BBM forums.
He said he did split squats but not additional pulling. He also said if not for bench pain he would program that the same, and while he said before he deloaded less frequently he specified here that he didn't deload at all, just switched from ramping 6/5s to doubles then singles
I wonder if the fact that his absolute intensity is so high that the relative intensity has to be lowered so much. Him pulling only 2x/week seems like the old saying "deadlifting fries your CNS," but maybe when you can Deadlift over 700 that becomes much more true and you should drop the 8s even. I wonder how this programming would work for someone with a 405 1RM on their DL.
DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:24 pm
Did Austin specify what his other lower body training looked like? typically BBM templates have 3 squats and 3 pulls
In case anyone is interested, I asked Austin on the BBM forums.
He said he did split squats but not additional pulling. He also said if not for bench pain he would program that the same, and while he said before he deloaded less frequently he specified here that he didn't deload at all, just switched from ramping 6/5s to doubles then singles
I wonder if the fact that his absolute intensity is so high that the relative intensity has to be lowered so much. Him pulling only 2x/week seems like the old saying "deadlifting fries your CNS," but maybe when you can Deadlift over 700 that becomes much more true and you should drop the 8s even. I wonder how this programming would work for someone with a 405 1RM on their DL.
I don't really think that's the case. Almost every BBM 3 day template I've seen has you deadlifting 2x a week, and a lot of the 4 day templates have 2x a week deadlifting with one row. Even when it is 3 "deadlifts" the third is usually something lighter like an RDL. That being said, the third squat a lot of the time is like a split squat or leg press so the squatting and deadlifting isn't really programmed differently. As for something with a 405 1RM I asked Jordan a question which he answered on one of the podcasts about would this style work for someone with less experience and his answer was that it would as long as volume was equated
DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:24 pm
Did Austin specify what his other lower body training looked like? typically BBM templates have 3 squats and 3 pulls
In case anyone is interested, I asked Austin on the BBM forums.
He said he did split squats but not additional pulling. He also said if not for bench pain he would program that the same, and while he said before he deloaded less frequently he specified here that he didn't deload at all, just switched from ramping 6/5s to doubles then singles
I wonder if the fact that his absolute intensity is so high that the relative intensity has to be lowered so much. Him pulling only 2x/week seems like the old saying "deadlifting fries your CNS," but maybe when you can Deadlift over 700 that becomes much more true and you should drop the 8s even. I wonder how this programming would work for someone with a 405 1RM on their DL.
I don't really think that's the case. Almost every BBM 3 day template I've seen has you deadlifting 2x a week, and a lot of the 4 day templates have 2x a week deadlifting with one row. Even when it is 3 "deadlifts" the third is usually something lighter like an RDL. That being said, the third squat a lot of the time is like a split squat or leg press so the squatting and deadlifting isn't really programmed differently. As for something with a 405 1RM I asked Jordan a question which he answered on one of the podcasts about would this style work for someone with less experience and his answer was that it would as long as volume was equated
I guess "equating volume" would mean sticking to something like "do X for Y number of total reps" at the same RPE prescriptions?
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:37 pm
by DPriest442
SnakePlissken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:22 pm
I guess "equating volume" would mean sticking to something like "do X for Y number of total reps" at the same RPE prescriptions?
I think Jordan considers volume to be reps x sets x weight
SnakePlissken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:22 pm
I guess "equating volume" would mean sticking to something like "do X for Y number of total reps" at the same RPE prescriptions?
I think Jordan considers volume to be reps x sets x weight
Jordan has corrected a lot of people on that. To them that's considered tonnage. Volume is just the total number or reps.
Re: RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:43 am
by SnakePlissken
Don't know if this thread should be revived again, but I figured I'd post that after burning out on a Legacy BBM template (where the HNFM values are all very high), that I made my own block to get back in the groove again and will post later on how progress goes.
Took some ideas about keeping away from @9 sets and doing more volume work, but keeping things relatively heavy (3 reps at a 5RM for instance). Used HNFM to help guide these with 2 harder slots for each and 1 easier slot per week. So far Monday and Tuesday have been great.
