Who is on a cut?

[TimK]

James Krieger has a 50 min long critique of the MATADOR study that you can watch for free:

https://weightology.net/the-members-are ... -fat-loss/

Key takeaways:

Alternating 2 weeks of 33% calorie restriction with 2 weeks of maintenance resulted in superior fat loss to continuous restriction for 16 straight weeks.

While the researchers suggested attenuation of adaptive thermogenesis may have been the mechanism, this is likely not the case. This conclusion is not consistent with the data in the study, and is also not consistent with data from other studies.

The most probable mechanism was superior dietary adherence, as nearly a 1000 calorie per day deficit is easier to stick to for only 2 weeks at a time, compared to 16 straight weeks.

[Allentown]

Are people saying this? 2.5 lbs of meat per day?

That's.... probably pretty close to what I was getting. At least for a good long while. But in 3-4 meals.

[JohnHelton]

Are people saying this? 2.5 lbs of meat per day?

That's.... probably pretty close to what I was getting. At least for a good long while. But in 3-4 meals.

I have a 53 lbs dog that eats almost 2 lbs of meat (including some ground bone and liver) per day. He is on an all raw meat diet...and he is jacked. Then again, he is a dog.

[JohnHelton]

I downloaded the RP template over the weekend. Holy crap. If you can't lose weight doing that, then you can't lose weight. I'm going to hold off on using it though. It is so sever. I will keep with my current program at this point, as I like the flexibility more. As for those templates, if you continue to stall, you eventually are only eating lean meats and vegetables.

[Murelli]

I downloaded the RP template over the weekend. Holy crap. If you can't lose weight doing that, then you can't lose weight. I'm going to hold off on using it though. It is so sever. I will keep with my current program at this point, as I like the flexibility more. As for those templates, if you continue to stall, you eventually are doing RFL.

FTFY

[JohnHelton]

I downloaded the RP template over the weekend. Holy crap. If you can't lose weight doing that, then you can't lose weight. I'm going to hold off on using it though. It is so sever. I will keep with my current program at this point, as I like the flexibility more. As for those templates, if you continue to stall, you eventually are doing RFL.

FTFY

Exactly. Pretty brutal.

[nkupianist]

Checking in, on a slow cut. I was around 198-200 end of summer/early spring. I'm down to 190-191, but I've lost more than 7-10 pounds of fat because I have more LBM than before. Long term goal would be to get down into the low 180s and do meets at 181. I'd like to some day pull off a lean 198-200, but at 5'7", that's going to be a long-term journey. After the realization that one can get stronger without getting significantly fatter, I'm taking this slowly and trying to form habits such that my maintenance diet isn't significantly different than my current one.

I've been tracking in LoseIt. I log both food and exercise, and go off net calories. As such, on lifting days I gross significantly more calories than on rest/conditioning only days.

I've also had a lot of luck with @TimK 's strategy of pushing calories back as far as I can stand in the morning. I usually don't eat breakfast till 10 or a bit after, which helps me be able to comfortably eat the rest of the day. I also make breakfast protein dense so that I can breathe a bit the rest of the day. I digest yogurt well, so I'll do 4 single-serving containers of a low calorie greek yogurt for breakfast. That's 60g right up front. I do my best to eat no more frequently than 3 hours for MPS reasons. Another trick that's been helping has been ordering 2 meat entrees restaurants and skipping the sides. Usually, the calories aren't that different from an entrée and 2 sides, but it's fewer carbs that way.

I largely allow myself to have indulgences at will and just track my weekly deficit/surplus. If I'm within a couple hundred calories of my weekly calorie goal, I don't worry about daily fluctuation. The only thing I've really cut out is most liquid calories. I just offset the calories somewhere else if I do something indulgent. I try to time indulgences so that they fall before lifting sessions. I'm sure I'll have to get increasingly strict as I cross into the 180s.

I don't actively avoid supplements, but most of my diet is food - I probably consume 3 whey/milk shakes a week, just as needed.

Thankfully, none of my lifts have really gone down at all thus far, other than some awkward squat sessions getting used to the leverage changes. Squat has gone slightly up, press/bench have stayed steady and deadlift has improved.

[DCM]

Checking in, on a slow cut. I was around 198-200 end of summer/early spring. I'm down to 190-191, but I've lost more than 7-10 pounds of fat because I have more LBM than before. Long term goal would be to get down into the low 180s and do meets at 181. I'd like to some day pull off a lean 198-200, but at 5'7", that's going to be a long-term journey. After the realization that one can get stronger without getting significantly fatter, I'm taking this slowly and trying to form habits such that my maintenance diet isn't significantly different than my current one.

I've been tracking in LoseIt. I log both food and exercise, and go off net calories. As such, on lifting days I gross significantly more calories than on rest/conditioning only days.

I've also had a lot of luck with @TimK 's strategy of pushing calories back as far as I can stand in the morning. I usually don't eat breakfast till 10 or a bit after, which helps me be able to comfortably eat the rest of the day. I also make breakfast protein dense so that I can breathe a bit the rest of the day. I digest yogurt well, so I'll do 4 single-serving containers of a low calorie greek yogurt for breakfast. That's 60g right up front. I do my best to eat no more frequently than 3 hours for MPS reasons. Another trick that's been helping has been ordering 2 meat entrees restaurants and skipping the sides. Usually, the calories aren't that different from an entrée and 2 sides, but it's fewer carbs that way.

I largely allow myself to have indulgences at will and just track my weekly deficit/surplus. If I'm within a couple hundred calories of my weekly calorie goal, I don't worry about daily fluctuation. The only thing I've really cut out is most liquid calories. I just offset the calories somewhere else if I do something indulgent. I try to time indulgences so that they fall before lifting sessions. I'm sure I'll have to get increasingly strict as I cross into the 180s.

I don't actively avoid supplements, but most of my diet is food - I probably consume 3 whey/milk shakes a week, just as needed.

Thankfully, none of my lifts have really gone down at all thus far, other than some awkward squat sessions getting used to the leverage changes. Squat has gone slightly up, press/bench have stayed steady and deadlift has improved.

That all sounds very sensible. It also sounds like we're taking a similar approach, i.e. trying to think of it as less of a cut and more of a permanent lifestyle change (or maybe I'm projecting here ). Indulgences are important imo, not least to stop one becoming a recluse or prevernt eating with friends, etc. - that way dysfunctional eating / eating disorders lie.

[nkupianist]

That all sounds very sensible. It also sounds like we're taking a similar approach, i.e. trying to think of it as less of a cut and more of a permanent lifestyle change (or maybe I'm projecting here ). Indulgences are important imo, not least to stop one becoming a recluse or prevernt eating with friends, etc. - that way dysfunctional eating / eating disorders lie.

Yeah - people who go into it with this militaristic "change everything at once, get up at 5 AM to do PT, no indulgences" attitude either end up falling off the wagon and regressing back to their old habits (and often end up fatter than before) or go the disorder route you referenced and have to build a whole new life around their deprivation, which I'd also speculate eventually leads back to regression anyway. It makes a lot more sense to take a moderate pace, accept some fluctuations and blips as long as the bodyfat line is sloping down on average, and having a sustainable end-game planned in terms of average weekly maintenance calories and exercise that you can mostly achieve without hating life. I've gotten a decent enough handle on averaging a 250-500 deficit daily that I know life will be pretty good on a maintenance plan. I'm not sure why most people don't take this approach. I don't know if it's ignorance or a general aversion to long-term planning.

There's a happy medium between the CrossFit stereotypes who have to live at the gym 24/7 and the SS stereotype whose life revolves around meat, booze, milk and lifting the heaviest weights possible. Barbell Medicine has been great in terms of adding some concern for general wellbeing to the former SS community's lifestyle. To quote Steve Shaw, a fitness Youtuber who lost over 100 pounds after getting diabetes as a super heavyweight powerlifter, "your 3-lift total is zero when you're dead". That's easy to lose sight of when your only goal is to become a strong, 200 pound "full grown male".

I re-read over your progress - nice work! It's good to know my approach somewhat lines up with someone who's been so successful with their cut.

[JohnHelton]

That all sounds very sensible. It also sounds like we're taking a similar approach, i.e. trying to think of it as less of a cut and more of a permanent lifestyle change (or maybe I'm projecting here ). Indulgences are important imo, not least to stop one becoming a recluse or prevernt eating with friends, etc. - that way dysfunctional eating / eating disorders lie.

Yeah - people who go into it with this militaristic "change everything at once, get up at 5 AM to do PT, no indulgences" attitude either end up falling off the wagon and regressing back to their old habits (and often end up fatter than before) or go the disorder route you referenced and have to build a whole new life around their deprivation, which I'd also speculate eventually leads back to regression anyway. It makes a lot more sense to take a moderate pace, accept some fluctuations and blips as long as the bodyfat line is sloping down on average, and having a sustainable end-game planned in terms of average weekly maintenance calories and exercise that you can mostly achieve without hating life. I've gotten a decent enough handle on averaging a 250-500 deficit daily that I know life will be pretty good on a maintenance plan. I'm not sure why most people don't take this approach. I don't know if it's ignorance or a general aversion to long-term planning.

There's a happy medium between the CrossFit stereotypes who have to live at the gym 24/7 and the SS stereotype whose life revolves around meat, booze, milk and lifting the heaviest weights possible. Barbell Medicine has been great in terms of adding some concern for general wellbeing to the former SS community's lifestyle. To quote Steve Shaw, a fitness Youtuber who lost over 100 pounds after getting diabetes as a super heavyweight powerlifter, "your 3-lift total is zero when you're dead". That's easy to lose sight of when your only goal is to become a strong, 200 pound "full grown male".

I re-read over your progress - nice work! It's good to know my approach somewhat lines up with someone who's been so successful with their cut.

I totally agree with you. I can't sustain serious deprivation. That is why I'm focused on a moderate caloric deficit with enough protein for MPS. The fats and carbs can vary, giving me more flexibility throughout the day.

[nkupianist]

Anyone have any particular staple foods/meals that make a cut better in terms of both macros and satiety? I could see such a list being potentially useful. Mine include:

• Greek yogurt for breakfast - lots of it - 4 containers of Oikos Triple Zero = 480 cal, 60g P, 56g C

• Chipotle burrito bowl, always with double meet/extra cheese

• Homemade assembled burrito/bowl - the combinations are endless. I'll usually do beef as the meat on a workout day and chicken on a non-workout day. Bought at Costco, 85/15 beef and chicken breast/thighs are cheap, and I buy their Mexican cheese in bulk and freeze 3 oz. servings of it

• Halo Top - no, it's not ice cream, but if you go in expecting it to be different, it can really fill a sweet tooth void

• For those sensitive to sugar alcohols in HT, there's another brand called Yasso sold at Target - it's a similar niche, but it's Greek yogurt-based with no sugar alcohols. A bit higher calorie than HT, but far less than ice cream

• Crock pot pulled pork

• Crock pot pulled pork

• Payday bar (pre-workout) - fills a candy void, but has enough protein to keep me full longer than pure sugar and has decent macros for candy. Also has some salt, which I like before lifting.

With the exception of the lower fat breakfast and desserts, most of my meals when on a cut skew a bit toward fat and away from carbs, but stop way short of keto/Atkins. I find the satiety is worth the extra 5 cals/gram.
I'd be curious to hear what others rely on. I'm always eager to add new things into the rotation.

[augeleven]

I really like sautéed chicken breast. The key for me is to hammer it flat (maybe1/2 inch thick?). Two minutes on each side at a medium heat will give it a nice crusty outside and an evenly cooked juicy inside.

[ch]

My problem with Greek yogurt is figuring out how to flavor it without adding too much sugar.

Right now I don’t eat breakfast, but I need to figure out an easy no-cook breakfast before work starts again. A shake or something. I can’t function at work without eating.

My staple foods right now are instant pot pulled chicken breast (with rice) and “beefaroni” aka pasta with lean ground beef (the frozen stuff from Costco) and marinara (Trader Joe’s has one with low fat).

I used to eat a lot of chicken teriyaki and will probably go back to that soon. (I’d cut the chicken in advance.) I’m light on veggies in my diet right now.

I get Dove dark chocolate to satisfy my sweet tooth, or Snickers ice cream bars when I’m feeling indulgent.

[nkupianist]

My problem with Greek yogurt is figuring out how to flavor it without adding too much sugar.

Have you tried using Stevia? This was extreme and over the top, but for a while, I would take 29 ounces of plain Greek yogurt, 10 ounces of fresh mixed berries, and a good amount of a Stevia product and blend all of that. The concoction together actually tasted pretty decent. Of course, the fruit does contain sugar, and I don't know how strict you are there. I also don't recommend eating a 2.5 pound serving of yogurt at once. I tolerated it really well for a while, but all of a sudden my stomach started revolting, which doesn't surprise me, but the length of time I tolerated it first was strange. Anyway, throwing some fruit and stevia in can make things taste pretty good.

If you want a guaranteed office conversation starter, though, bring a 2.5 pound serving of yogurt to a meeting.

Also, yeah, Asian recipes in general are pretty good for a cut, and a lot of them can be done in the crock pot while at work. There are also some pretty good ginger salad dressing recipes online, like what you'd get at a sushi place. Pairs really well with an Asian entrée for lunch, and a batch of it usually yields a few days of salad servings.

@augeleven , I'll try that. I've always taken the opposite approach - cooked a big thick piece more like a steak. A 3 min or so sear per side, then finish it in the oven.

[broseph]

I always hated chicken breast. Now I buy more expensive meat and always always pound it thin. Now I love chicken breast.

——————————

Protein pancakes. This takes a little while to make, but I love them and can eat my fill.
1/2 c flour
1/2 T sugar
1 t baking powder
1/4 t salt
2 eggs
1 t vanilla
1 c Greek yogurt

63C, 15F, 40P

I make a simple blueberry syrup with frozen blueberries, water, Splenda, and a little cornstarch.

[TimK]

My problem with Greek yogurt is figuring out how to flavor it without adding too much sugar.

Splenda? Or what I do, get the "light" version that's vanilla flavored. 130 cal and 18g protein per cup.

One quick, easy meal that I like is:

1 cup light greek yogurt
1 cup 1% cottage cheese
1 cup Kashi Go-Lean cereal

Mix in bowl, eat.
450 cal, 55g protein.

With the exception of the lower fat breakfast and desserts, most of my meals when on a cut skew a bit toward fat and away from carbs, but stop way short of keto/Atkins. I find the satiety is worth the extra 5 cals/gram.

I eat a lot of (real) cheese. Totally worth it for me too.

A few other meals I like:

Chicken Quesadilla:

1 burrito sized tortilla
7.5 oz chicken breast, diced
2/3 cup finely shredded sharp cheddar

Lay tortilla on plate, distribute half of cheese on one half of the tortilla. Put chicken on top of cheese. Distribute remaining cheese on top of chicken. Fold tortilla over, grill on panini press until cheese is melted. Tastes great.

596 cal, 65g protein.

Tuna melts:

4 slices "Aunt Millie's Light Honey Wheat Bread" (35 cal. per slice)
2 cans of tuna
4 slices of cheese

I place all four slices of bread on my panini with the top open while I'm opening and draining the tuna. Once I'm done with that awful task, the bread is toasted on one side. I assemble the sandwiches thusly: bread with toasted side facing up, slice of cheese, one can of tuna (spread it out to fit the bread), season salt, garlic salt, any other kind of salt you might have, slice of cheese, bread with toasted side facing down. Toasting the inside of the bread and putting cheese on top and bottom is to prevent the tuna juices from soaking into the bread and making it soggy and awful. Throw both sandwiches on the panini, grill until cheese is melted. I usually flip it half way to get the cheese to melt down into the tuna from both sides.

640 cal, 68g protein

[nkupianist]

Chicken Quesadilla:

1 burrito sized tortilla
7.5 oz chicken breast, diced
2/3 cup finely shredded sharp cheddar

Lay tortilla on plate, distribute half of cheese on one half of the tortilla. Put chicken on top of cheese. Distribute remaining cheese on top of chicken. Fold tortilla over, grill on panini press until cheese is melted. Tastes great.

596 cal, 65g protein.

I'll be doing this soon. With all of the burritos/bowls I eat, I don't know why a quesadilla never occurred to me.

[DCM]

That all sounds very sensible. It also sounds like we're taking a similar approach, i.e. trying to think of it as less of a cut and more of a permanent lifestyle change (or maybe I'm projecting here ). Indulgences are important imo, not least to stop one becoming a recluse or prevernt eating with friends, etc. - that way dysfunctional eating / eating disorders lie.

Yeah - people who go into it with this militaristic "change everything at once, get up at 5 AM to do PT, no indulgences" attitude either end up falling off the wagon and regressing back to their old habits (and often end up fatter than before) or go the disorder route you referenced and have to build a whole new life around their deprivation, which I'd also speculate eventually leads back to regression anyway. It makes a lot more sense to take a moderate pace, accept some fluctuations and blips as long as the bodyfat line is sloping down on average, and having a sustainable end-game planned in terms of average weekly maintenance calories and exercise that you can mostly achieve without hating life. I've gotten a decent enough handle on averaging a 250-500 deficit daily that I know life will be pretty good on a maintenance plan. I'm not sure why most people don't take this approach. I don't know if it's ignorance or a general aversion to long-term planning.

There's a happy medium between the CrossFit stereotypes who have to live at the gym 24/7 and the SS stereotype whose life revolves around meat, booze, milk and lifting the heaviest weights possible. Barbell Medicine has been great in terms of adding some concern for general wellbeing to the former SS community's lifestyle. To quote Steve Shaw, a fitness Youtuber who lost over 100 pounds after getting diabetes as a super heavyweight powerlifter, "your 3-lift total is zero when you're dead". That's easy to lose sight of when your only goal is to become a strong, 200 pound "full grown male".

I re-read over your progress - nice work! It's good to know my approach somewhat lines up with someone who's been so successful with their cut.

So much sense right here. And thanks for the props, I appreciate it!

[DCM]

I have the same breakfast every day, basically a fancy protein shake. It's quick to make, tasty, packs lots of fibre and provides a significant amount of my fruit intake:

- 2 scoops vanilla-flavoured whey
- 200 ml semi-skimmed milk
- 100g Fage Greek yoghurt
- 40g oats
- 1 banana
- 140g blueberries
- 1 apple, chopped up and microwaved for 1 minute (I get a funny allergic reaction to raw apple)
- A pinch of cinnamon and ginger

This is roughly 650 calories.

I also have Greek yoghurt pre-workout. 150g of it with 20g oats and half a tin of pears. The natural sugars of the pear provide enough sweetness for me. I also add a pinch of cinnamon, just for extra flavour.

[ch]

I’m going to try that shake @DCM. I am not a morning person, so something I can take with me is key.