Rules of thumb for cutting

[perman]

This video is relevant:

[slowmotion]

Thanks for that @perman . I can really relate to what he says in the video.

[Mugaaz]

I can relate to much of it as well. I agree with the pattern and symptoms he's describing. I'm sure how well the diet break stuff actually works at reversing those, but I know for a fact "powering through" is absolutely pointless. When I "powered through" from 240-220, my diet was so insanely strict, and yet the results were slowwwww. Those 20 pounds came back virtually immediately as well. I'm going to try the diet break this time after 2-3 months.

Interesting he makes the point of maintaining the exact weight you start the break on. I find that a little curious, because maintenance of a specific post-diet weight usually means maintaining abnormally low calorie intake, at least in comparison to what you'd expect a typical person at that size to need.

[perman]

Interesting he makes the point of maintaining the exact weight you start the break on. I find that a little curious, because maintenance of a specific post-diet weight usually means maintaining abnormally low calorie intake, at least in comparison to what you'd expect a typical person at that size to need.

Well, to begin with it is, but he claimed it would go back up after 1-3 months at that new weight if you worked at staying there.

[Jay870]

I'm trying to lean back out a little and am giving the "MATADOR" (https://www.nature.com/articles/ijo2017206) approach a shot.

Basically two weeks of moderate-high deficit, then two weeks at maintenance. Repeat.

I'm just starting my second cycle so don't have any great insights, other than it is mentally much easier for me to maintain the steep deficit when I know I have an "end date" in sight.

[Savs]

Thanks for that @perman . I can really relate to what he says in the video.

Seconded. Thanks, perman. Also, thanks again to those who suggested a diet break (go back to maintenance for a while) earlier in the thread..

[Wilhelm]

Cut is going really well.
Daytime weight down 5 to 8Lbs. There were days i was touching 203
And this morning i was 192.5 after peeing and before drinking anything.

Bench only today, and it's the beginning of the new dup cycle, so it's quite low stress.
Still at just a little over 1,600 calories a day, and i'll do that today, bump it up a little tomorrow in advance of the day two squats Saturday.

Deadlifts and the first heavier squat day are next week, so i will need to bring the calories up.
I was shooting for 190lbs, but i'm kind of hooked on the idea of really taking it further.

I don't plan on cutting often, so i'm thinking i may as well do what i can now. As long as i feel good for my sessions.

[damufunman]

Cut is going really well.
Daytime weight down 5 to 8Lbs. There were days i was touching 203
And this morning i was 192.5 after peeing and before drinking anything.

Bench only today, and it's the beginning of the new dup cycle, so it's quite low stress.
Still at just a little over 1,600 calories a day, and i'll do that today, bump it up a little tomorrow in advance of the day two squats Saturday.

Deadlifts and the first heavier squat day are next week, so i will need to bring the calories up.
I was shooting for 190lbs, but i'm kind of hooked on the idea of really taking it further.

I don't plan on cutting often, so i'm thinking i may as well do what i can now. As long as i feel good for my sessions.

Nice work man! I went from 205 to about 185 (186 this morning) in a few months while baby-ing, so not sure if strength drop was due to weight or just less training/recovery over that time. Likely both, but strength is basically back up to pre-cut for the Exodus Meat after maintaining for a few weeks, so likely I was carrying too much fat. Can't tell how lean you are, but I suspect you'll do well.

[Wilhelm]

Cut is going really well.
Daytime weight down 5 to 8Lbs. There were days i was touching 203
And this morning i was 192.5 after peeing and before drinking anything.

Bench only today, and it's the beginning of the new dup cycle, so it's quite low stress.
Still at just a little over 1,600 calories a day, and i'll do that today, bump it up a little tomorrow in advance of the day two squats Saturday.

Deadlifts and the first heavier squat day are next week, so i will need to bring the calories up.
I was shooting for 190lbs, but i'm kind of hooked on the idea of really taking it further.

I don't plan on cutting often, so i'm thinking i may as well do what i can now. As long as i feel good for my sessions.

Nice work man! I went from 205 to about 185 (186 this morning) in a few months while baby-ing, so not sure if strength drop was due to weight or just less training/recovery over that time. Likely both, but strength is basically back up to pre-cut for the Exodus Meat after maintaining for a few weeks, so likely I was carrying too much fat. Can't tell how lean you are, but I suspect you'll do well.

I had more fat than i cared to admit.

These 1,600 calorie days i'm living on whey isolate and mct oil.
That allows me to still get 200 grams protein and remain in ketosis.
I'm doing 150 calories and 15 grams fat from 3 Tbsp heavy cream for my coffee too.

Got my chard yesterday.
Man, the smoothies really benefit from the peanut butter i usually use.

Then my vitamins and cacao powder for more micronutrients.

Still never hungry.

[Cinic]

Never being hungry on 1600 calories seems insane to me.

You ever try the PB powder? It's got a few carbs - not sure what your limits are. I find it adds enough peanut flavor to make my morning smoothie less gross.

[Wilhelm]

Never being hungry on 1600 calories seems insane to me.

That's a wonderful effect of being in ketosis.
Brain gets fed, so doesn't need to send hunger signals.
Ghrelin, aka the hunger hormone, is also suppressed.

I've been in ketosis every day for 20 months now, so all my systems have done their upregulation, and i have become very efficient at producing and utilizing SCFAs for muscles, and ketones for brain energy.
Brain gets first dibs on the ketones since they are able to easily cross the blood brain barrier.
Before full(er) adaptation, the muscles use more, and that is part of what leads to the symptoms called keto flu.
I never had an issue with that.
But large doses of protein w/o fat and or leafy green veggies to slow it down, can spike blood sugar.
The mct oil boosts ketones rapidly since it bypasses the gall bladder and goes straight to the liver to be processed.

I've done my blood readings since i started doing this cut, and the strategy is working great.
67 net grams protein (76 grams isolate) for 290 calories, 2 Tbsp MCT oil for 200 calories and 28 grams fat.

My ratios are way off from what is normal for staying in ketosis, but the hack absolutely works.

[Cinic]

Never being hungry on 1600 calories seems insane to me.

That's a wonderful effect of being in ketosis.
Brain gets fed so doesn't need to send hunger signals.
Ghrelin, aka the hunger hormone, is also suppressed.

I've been in ketosis every day for 20 months now, so all my systems have done their upregulation, and i have become very efficient at producing and utilizing SCFAs for muscles, and ketones for brain energy.
Brain gets first dibs on the ketones since they are able to easily cross the blood brain barrier.
Before full adaptation, the muscles use more, and that is part of what leads to the symptoms called keto flu.
I never had an issue with that.
But large doses of protein w/o fat and or veggies to slow it down, can spike blood sugar.
The mct oil boost ketones rapidly since it bypasses the gall bladder and goes straight to the liver to be processed.

I've done my blood readings since i started doing this cut, and the strategy is working great.
67 net grams protein (76 grams isolate) for 290 calories, 2 Tbsp MCT oil for 200 calories and 28 grams fat.

My ratios are way off from what is normal for staying in ketosis, but the hack absolutely works.

You ever try the PB powder? It's got a few carbs - not sure what your limits are. I find it adds enough peanut flavor to make my morning smoothie less gross.

I get 20kg bags of provon 292 pretty much straight from the manufacturer (via a distributor)
Cheap and unadulterated.

I'm going to go back and re-read all the previous info you posted. Thanks for the keto insight.

Regarding the powder, I meant this stuff.



I use a serving of that in my smoothie for some added PB flavor in which I also use unflavored whey isolate.

[Wilhelm]

Ah, i see. Thanks. : )

After i'm done (soon) with this drastic a deficit, i'll just go back to actual plain peanut butter, ricotta, and cream and coconut oil (in my coffee)

I'm also looking forward to a big plate of meat and eggs.
Not hungry, just bored


Damn, i realy didn't intend to go on another keto tear here. Soz, folks.

SpoilerShow

Edit to add -
Lots of people aren't able, or don't choose to, stay carb restricted to a proper extent, or for sufficient time to really get a feel for the effect i described.
And that's fine. Whatever works for whichever person.
I took to this approach very easily, and i like it a lot.
Just saying that initial period can be difficult, and is not for everyone.

Just low carb isn't enough to get into ketosis.
Then you just stay in a glucose based energy pattern, and are staved of fuel.
Many people experience this and say keto doesn't work for them.

[MattimusMaximus]

Anybody else suffer while on a deficit around 3000 kcals per day? I've tried as low as 2500 per day but it's awful. Funny enough I used to live off of 1600 cals per day when I was naturally skinny and lean at 140 lbs. I can eat that much with one "light" snack now.

[Stenson]

Anybody else suffer while on a deficit around 3000 kcals per day? I've tried as low as 2500 per day but it's awful. Funny enough I used to live off of 1600 cals per day when I was naturally skinny and lean at 140 lbs. I can eat that much with one "light" snack now.

I'm at 2850 right now, and honestly everything is going really well. I'm 5'11 and 225. The one thing I've been doing different compared to previous cutting cycles is that I set my fat macros higher and carbs lower. It helps with satiety (for me at least) and my palate just prefers fattier foods & I don't have a sweet tooth.

[perman]

Anybody else suffer while on a deficit around 3000 kcals per day? I've tried as low as 2500 per day but it's awful. Funny enough I used to live off of 1600 cals per day when I was naturally skinny and lean at 140 lbs. I can eat that much with one "light" snack now.

2k cals is my limit, my previous 3 cuts all crashed around there whenever I go that low. Maintenance is probably around 2700 before starting a cut (at 178cm, 93 kg, fuck imperial), so I can start to lose around 2400 cals next cut I believe.

I'm interested to see whether the same pattern will replay again. Fortunately the weight at which I need to go 2k to lose weight has been lower every time. So I think the next cut might finally be the one where a six-pack occurs, even if the pattern replays itself.

[Cellist]

Ahh to be 30 again

[Savs]

Ahh to be 30 again

To be 20 again would be be something, huh? I'll happily take 30, though!

[slowmotion]

Not sure I would want to be 20 today, but to go back and relive those days back when I was 20, sure!

[perman]

Not sure I would want to be 20 today, but to go back and relive those days back when I was 20, sure!

What's the point in being 20 if you can't flex on Instagram about being 20?