Exodus Strength

So I tried an experiment with my W1D1 volume and cut it by six reps, doing 6x4 instead of 6x5 (but with a tad more weight). Fatigue was, like, zero for the first couple sets, and had that "good workout" feel by the end. Definitely seeing the light here...

Also, FWIW, I've sorta settled on my "modified" programming strategy, to try for at least a few cycles (for squats):

Week 1:
Session 1: 6x4@73%
Session 2: 4x2@82%
Session 3: 5x3@77%

Week 2:
Session 1: 3x4 + 4x3@73%+5
Session 2: 2x2 + 4x1@82%+5
Session 3: 3x3 + 3x2@77%+5

The next cycle will be the same sets/reps as Week 1 with the same weights as Week 2, going from there. Basically, weights, and total reps, stay constant from W2 -> next W1, but with a reduction in sets and increase in reps/set. Then weight will increase the next W2.

Percentages are a guess, but going with the RPE 7-8 on all days (besides maybe middle day, which will be 8-9).

Gained 20 lbs on my bench 1RM in three months using the MM bench protocol, despite losing 10 lbs during that time. 245 -> 265 and still going. Thanks, @Hanley!

PC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:51 am Gained 20 lbs on my bench 1RM in three months using the MM bench protocol, despite losing 10 lbs during that time. 245 -> 265 and still going. Thanks, @Hanley!

Really nice, man!

I saw some posts itt back in 2018 referencing the idea of a 4-day split version of the Montana Method template. Is a 4-day split version available somewhere at this point?

kcjason wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:56 pm I saw some posts itt back in 2018 referencing the idea of a 4-day split version of the Montana Method template. Is a 4-day split version available somewhere at this point?

I'm pretty sure it morphed into this:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3421

Hanley wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:18 pm

kcjason wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:56 pm I saw some posts itt back in 2018 referencing the idea of a 4-day split version of the Montana Method template. Is a 4-day split version available somewhere at this point?

I'm pretty sure it morphed into this:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3421

This looks great! I have been wanting to try your "method," but hadn't seen anything this clearly outlined in a 4-day schedule. I don't feel like I've made much progress in terms of hypertrophy or strength gains in a long while, despite training consistently. I didn't feel like I got much of anything out of a BBM style hypertrophy block of eight weeks I did a few months back, and otherwise have been structuring higher intensity sessions modeled off some of Baker's templates. I'll probably move over to give this a try within the next few weeks. Thanks for putting this out there and pointing me in the right direction! Also cool is that it seems more templates are due to drop like yesterday!

Moved from elsewhere:

Hanley wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 6:03 pm

DoctorWho wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 5:55 pmSo how about he keeps the BP and OHP weight, but switches from 3 sets of 5 to 5 sets of three, continuing to try to micro-load increase each session, then switch to 5 sets of 2. Maybe with some back-off sets of 8 to 12 at, say, 70% of the workout load?

Yup. Sounds good.

If he can hack more work each session, do more. So...maybe 6 sets of 3 with the same load he'd use for 3 sets of 5 (then maybe 1-2 backoffs if he isn't totally spent).

Implementing this. Thanks, again.
Also got the advice for creatine, pre-workout L-Citrulline, and post-workout BCCAs. Gal. of water per day (GOWAD?). 40% of calories from protein (that can include supplements). Calories determined to keep him 12 to 15% BF until about September (boy is 144 at 12.8% BF now), then reducing body fat to 7 or 8% BF get to competition weight class for a big tournament in early Dec. Wrestling at 138, 145, or even 152 would be fine -- so a LBM increase of 5 to 20 pounds would be great. If it were you, would you change anything in this plan? PS. I just found a thread on something called the Montana Method. Copying this over [[there]] here.

DoctorWho wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 6:05 am Moved from elsewhere:

Hanley wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 6:03 pm

DoctorWho wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 5:55 pmSo how about he keeps the BP and OHP weight, but switches from 3 sets of 5 to 5 sets of three, continuing to try to micro-load increase each session, then switch to 5 sets of 2. Maybe with some back-off sets of 8 to 12 at, say, 70% of the workout load?

Yup. Sounds good.

If he can hack more work each session, do more. So...maybe 6 sets of 3 with the same load he'd use for 3 sets of 5 (then maybe 1-2 backoffs if he isn't totally spent).

Implementing this. Thanks, again.
Also got the advice for creatine, pre-workout L-Citrulline, and post-workout BCCAs. Gal. of water per day (GOWAD?). 40% of calories from protein (that can include supplements). Calories determined to keep him 12 to 15% BF until about September (boy is 144 at 12.8% BF now), then reducing body fat to 7 or 8% BF get to competition weight class for a big tournament in early Dec. Wrestling at 138, 145, or even 152 would be fine -- so a LBM increase of 5 to 20 pounds would be great. If it were you, would you change anything in this plan? PS. I just found a thread on something called the Montana Method. Copying this over [[there]] here.

That seems fine. Admittedly, I don't know anything about cutting strategies for wrestling, so can't offer input there.

Hanley wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:57 am

DoctorWho wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 6:05 am Moved from elsewhere:

Hanley wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 6:03 pm

DoctorWho wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 5:55 pmSo how about he keeps the BP and OHP weight, but switches from 3 sets of 5 to 5 sets of three, continuing to try to micro-load increase each session, then switch to 5 sets of 2. Maybe with some back-off sets of 8 to 12 at, say, 70% of the workout load?

Yup. Sounds good.

If he can hack more work each session, do more. So...maybe 6 sets of 3 with the same load he'd use for 3 sets of 5 (then maybe 1-2 backoffs if he isn't totally spent).

Implementing this. Thanks, again.
Also got the advice for creatine, pre-workout L-Citrulline, and post-workout BCCAs. Gal. of water per day (GOWAD?). 40% of calories from protein (that can include supplements). Calories determined to keep him 12 to 15% BF until about September (boy is 144 at 12.8% BF now), then reducing body fat to 7 or 8% BF get to competition weight class for a big tournament in early Dec. Wrestling at 138, 145, or even 152 would be fine -- so a LBM increase of 5 to 20 pounds would be great. If it were you, would you change anything in this plan? PS. I just found a thread on something called the Montana Method. Copying this over [[there]] here.

That seems fine. Admittedly, I don't know anything about cutting strategies for wrestling, so can't offer input there.

Great; thanks, again. We have a guy who is all over the weight cutting part. I just wanted to state it so you'd have the entire picture about the training.

Hanley wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:57 am

Have a few questions for you about Montana Method... methods. Mostly in regard to the new 3-week template and somewhat more generally about where or when you use certain percentages and schemes.

Elsewhere on here you gave the following for a 2-day hybrid Power-Strength, Power-Hypertrophy setup:

Power-Hypertrophy
2-5 singles @ 85-90%,
6x5 @ 70-72%

Power-Strength
6-8 doubles or triples @ 80%

3-week GS seems to use that, particularly for bench, but with the P-H back off sets upped in intensity a bit.
Is this because you have the extra days with a ton of very submaximal, 60's %ages?

The PS days in 3-week GS seem to have varied total volumes from the general description above, like the squat day's got a lot more reps (until week 3) in the back offs and the template mostly favors just a single rather than multiple sets. The HS days have less volume, especially the bench days.
Is this about fatigue management across the 4 days, and accounting for all 3 lifts?

The 60's % days with a good dose of reps of Bench - are they functionally just extra HVLF hypertrophy days?

To put squat and/or deadlift on the backburner, could you implement the same type of days on the low end of the reps spectrum? 25-35 reps of 3-8 @ 60-68%? Any foreseeable negatives to (exclusively) that, aside from losing familiarity with heavy singles after a while?

Does prolonged time working solely 60-70%/HVLF have any negative Type IIx implications (like grindy 5's)? If so, do you have any alternate schemes you prefer for a more optimal non-strength focused block?

OrderInChaos wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:08 pm3-week GS seems to use that, particularly for bench, but with the P-H back off sets upped in intensity a bit.
Is this because you have the extra days with a ton of very submaximal, 60's %ages?

Yup. I want a little bit of a fight for quality reps. Mentally, you've got to do a little extra work to get aggressive-but-clean reps at - say 82%, than 72-75ish%

Not everyone needs that "volitional work"...but it's baked into the 3-week template.

OrderInChaos wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:08 pm The PS days in 3-week GS seem to have varied total volumes from the general description above, like the squat day's got a lot more reps (until week 3) in the back offs and the template mostly favors just a single rather than multiple sets. The HS days have less volume, especially the bench days.
Is this about fatigue management across the 4 days, and accounting for all 3 lifts?

Yeah, it's primarily a fatigue-management thing.

OrderInChaos wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:08 pm The 60's % days with a good dose of reps of Bench - are they functionally just extra HVLF hypertrophy days?

Yup. They're "hypertrophy with strength bias" as opposed to "hypertrophy with work-capacity bias" (which would look more like standard hypertrophy programming [ 4 sets of 8 @ 68-70%]).

OrderInChaos wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:08 pm To put squat and/or deadlift on the backburner, could you implement the same type of days on the low end of the reps spectrum? 25-35 reps of 3-8 @ 60-68%? Any foreseeable negatives to (exclusively) that, aside from losing familiarity with heavy singles after a while?

I'd have to go back and look at the research...but I'm vaguely recalling that upper body responds better (hypertrophy-wise) to low-fatigue sets than lower body. So...hypertrophy gains might be compromised a bit (but I think you'd still grow).

OrderInChaos wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:08 pm Does prolonged time working solely 60-70%/HVLF have any negative Type IIx implications (like grindy 5's)? If so, do you have any alternate schemes you prefer for a more optimal non-strength focused block?

No, I'd bet heavy money on the opposite. I think HVLF formats increase the proportion of IIX fiber. By design, I'm getting a fuckton of stimulus in the fiber of big motor units...but I'm cutting off sets (and session volume) before heavy fatigue (so I'm inhibiting "endurance" adaptations...it's those endurance adaptations which make hybrid muscle fiber (IIX/IIA) shift to IIA).

Happy to report back that I've really been enjoying my "strength-biased, reduced-intensity, Montana Method bastardization" programming the last month or so . Stopped feeling as beat up after the heavy single sessions of the original, as well as the fatigue from doing 5s, and am getting more enjoyment from lifting (and completing sessions faster, too). They way I programmed it, I started with my squat PR (even though I couldn't reproduce that at the time) of 370 and used 76%, 80% and 84% to program the days as follows:

W1D1: 3x4 + 4x3@76%
W1D2: 2x2 + 4x1 OR 3x2 + 2x1@84%
W1D3: 3x3 + 3x2@80%

For the second week, all weights and total reps the same, but consolidated into fewer sets:

W2D1: 6x4@76%
W2D2: 4x2@84%
W2D3: 5x3@80%

Then the cycle repeats, adding 5 across the board (sometimes 10 in the middle day).

Since I don't really care about getting bigger or competing, but am interested in general strength, this seemed like a good way to fool around with programming a bit, but time will tell.

Curious if anyone has tips for improving it over time. I've thought about making it a three-week cycle, where the first day is 3x4+4x3, 6x4, 7x4, the middle day is 2x2+4x1, 3x2+2x1, 4x2 and the third day just has a repeat of 5x3. If I find that the weight is jumping too quickly, maybe give this a try.

*Not really very relevant post was here.

Pretty sure i'm going to try this for the upcoming week 2 micro.
Doing all S day paused bench 3 times a week. Not sure i can actually call that MM, but...

My worksets started feeling heavier with the same weight the last two sessions.
Probably a small sign of fatigue accumulating, possibly from my other upper body work, dunno. Don't think it matters terribly as long as i don't completely ignore it.

In any case, instead of skipping a weight increase completely, i'll drop the 4 triples from 210, back to the week 1 weight of 207.5, and do the 3 doubles at 210.

Hanley wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:15 pm

lehman906 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:48 pm The conventional wisdom is that the deadlift beats you up more than anything else, but am I the only person who takes more punishment from squats? I feel like I could pull three times per week with intelligent programming and be fine, but squatting three times per week puts a hurtin on me. I have to do it because I have skinny weak legs, though, right?

Have you ever tried pulling three times per week or programmed it for anyone else Hanley? I mean, besides your snatch grip and press-only program?

If you have a small torso: femur ratio, there's just no getting around squat suckage.

They're going to suck. I'm noceboing you, and I don't care. The torque doesn't care.

Week 1
M: sgdl volume
W: conv deads (idk, volume at 75%)
F: sgdl: topset of 4-5 reps @7-8 followed dropsets - 10% topset

Week 2
M: conv dead (12 reps 80%?)
W: deficits? More sgdl?
F: overload (reverse band or rack pulls for doubles?)

Hopefully this goes well. Added in a block pull at +5% on power day

Hanley - just wanted to say thank you for putting this together. I just finished my first 3 week cycle of the Montana Method and got PR’s for all my lifts - without feeling all beat up like my prior heavy 4 day split would leave me (volume day was 5x5 @ 90%). I feel enlightened.

New PR’s:
SQ: 470
DL: 470
BP: 315
OP: 215

I was skeptical but I’m a believer now.

bjb wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:26 pm Hanley - just wanted to say thank you for putting this together.

My pleasure. Congrats on the PRs!

Interested in feedback from some of the more mature forum members (over 50 like me) who have run this template in terms of recovery with squatting 3 times a week. I've squatted twice a week for the better part of the last 5 years. Also, how long would a typical training session last? The thought of spending 90 minutes in the gym has never appealed to me and I try to be in and out in around 60-75 minutes.

kez56 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:10 am Interested in feedback from some of the more mature forum members (over 50 like me) who have run this template in terms of recovery with squatting 3 times a week. I've squatted twice a week for the better part of the last 5 years. Also, how long would a typical training session last? The thought of spending 90 minutes in the gym has never appealed to me and I try to be in and out in around 60-75 minutes.

It has been awhile, but I don’t recall fatigue being an issue. I believe the idea behind the program was to avoid having too much.

Did 4x7 with 70% on high bar squats today, the same fatigue values as 6x5 with 70% in the template.
I reached about RPE 8.5 on last set, with about my 12RM, with 3-5 mins rest
Speed only slowed down on the last rep, but I managed to stay upright

The next time this session comes aorund I will add 2.5kg only to the first 2 sets.
And eventually probably have a 2.5kg increment between each set in descending order

See if i can recover in 2days time for BBall....