Exodus Strength

I think it's an interesting sidebar.... My own thought about overuse injuries is that they're less of an issue when all the volume is pretty submaximal.

BenM wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:06 pm I think it's an interesting sidebar.... My own thought about overuse injuries is that they're less of an issue when all the volume is pretty submaximal.

Yeah.

But I also think "emerging strategies" applies to injury prevention. I have pretty nasty ac joint arthritis from 8 years of javelin throwing. I can tolerate insane session volumes....but I absolutely have to keep intraset fatigue low. That mitigation strategy might not work for other folks.

Also, also....I hate virtual discussions about injury risk because they tend to devolve into communal neurosis.

I've done all low bar, all conventional, and almost all regular grip bench for over 3 years, and worked not unhard.
Had a tweak or two, but that's it.
I have squatted at least 2, and mostly 3 times a week for all that time.

MM 2 week got me to at least do SGDL (which i enjoy), i've dropped the CGBP this time around in favor of hella dips.

Boredom with movements is a non issue for me.
I actually dislike variety to any great degree.

Wilhelm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:26 pm I actually dislike variety to any great degree.

I hadn't noticed!

You are the master of form and patience. And I say that with admiration. Especially since I bounce all over the place.

Wilhelm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:26 pm I've done all low bar, all conventional, and almost all regular grip bench for over 3 years, and worked not unhard.
Had a tweak or two, but that's it.
I have squatted at least 2, and mostly 3 times a week for all that time.

MM 2 week got me to at least do SGDL (which i enjoy), i've dropped the CGBP this time around in favor of hella dips.

Boredom with movements is a non issue for me.
I actually dislike variety to any great degree.

Yeah, you're an outlier

Hanley wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:10 am I can tolerate insane session volumes....but I absolutely have to keep intraset fatigue low. That mitigation strategy might not work for other folks.

Mind. Blown.

Seriously, I'd not consciously thought about this before but it's so true. If I take a set one rep too far, the rest of the session is invariably crap. I'd always figured it was meant to be a crap session to begin with, and that's why that final rep felt like one too many. But it hadn't dawned on me that hitting a point of extreme fatigue within a set would be a point of no return. I always had thought of fatigue in the context of how much energy I had the next time I went to lift, but this is way better.

In hindsight, I should have known this more intuitively, given my experience with very heavy singles (where the 'one and only' can be 'one too many' at a particular weight on a particular day). I've said before, when I fail a heavy single, the session is largely shot. Always chalked it up to mind-fuck and being thrown mentally due to failing, but this is the first time that I really got it regarding fatigue regulation... That's right, 70 pages where that was a running theme and it finally clicked.

DannyP wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:58 amthis is the first time that I really got it regarding fatigue regulation

Yeah...my whole approach to programming was totally accidental. It started as a workaround for arthritis...but then it worked better than any program I've run, so I retroactively built a model trying to explain why it could work.

Hanley wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:34 pm

DannyP wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:58 amthis is the first time that I really got it regarding fatigue regulation

Yeah...my whole approach to programming was totally accidental. It started as a workaround for arthritis...but then it worked better than any program I've run, so I retroactively built a model trying to explain why it could work.

Come to think of it, your whole approach could have come right out of my old economics textbook, specifically the section on the law of diminishing returns: At a certain point, the additional revenue (gainz) from selling one more unit (rep) fall below the marginal cost (energy) of producing that additional unit (rep).

While I'm no better at gauging it, I do now also have a better understanding of RPE. The lifter, much like the producer, must find the point where "marginal revenue" equals "marginal cost" in order to identify the optimal production levels.

JeanLannes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:15 pm Is there a particular reason for this extreme specificity?

No variations whatsoever?

Why is this routine different from the other ones? Is there more info on this one?

DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:26 pm

JeanLannes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:15 pm Is there a particular reason for this extreme specificity?

SpoilerShow

No variations whatsoever?

Why is this routine different from the other ones? Is there more info on this one?

Hey, @DPriest442 , welcome to the site.

If you are comparing it to the templates from early in this thread, those are the MM 2 week things, (as this thread is titled)
This Hanley's new 3 week scheme which he debuted in another thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3421
i haven't tried it yet, as i'm a stubborn old goat.

I bookmarked the updated usable excel spreadsheet from early in this thread a long time ago.
It's what i still use. I've changed it a little over time for bench, but for squat and DL, i do it pretty much as written.
Throwing in some over % squat singles on P day as i come back from a layoff.
viewtopic.php?p=131400#p131400

This Hanley's new 3 week scheme which he debuted in another thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3421

Oh, so that routine is intended for people with multiple years of experience? Probably not suitable then. Someone recommend it to me as I wanted to move to 4x a week

DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:43 pm

This Hanley's new 3 week scheme which he debuted in another thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3421

Oh, so that routine is intended for people with multiple years of experience? Probably not suitable then. Someone recommend it to me as I wanted to move to 4x a week

I don't think it's exclusively for advanced trainees.

I haven't been following that thread, or examining that template, but i'm guessing you could use it.
If you've been told that there are only one or two ways to train if you are relatively new to lifting, that might not be correct.

Just out of curiosity, what is your training history?
Some people don't even think a novice LP is the best way for a new lifter to train.
Sounds like you may be past that anyway, but i'd ask Hanley and others about the template in one of these threads.

You can always make adjustments to programs too.

@DPriest442 You can easily change the 2-week template into a 4-day full body routine. Just move the secondary pull to day 4 (after OHP) and add rows or pull-ups to day 3 and 4.

This is how I will run the 2-week template (with some additional changes) when gyms are open again :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Just out of curiosity, what is your training history?

I've been training with an upper/lower for about 4 months. My bodyweight is around 77.5kg and my squat/deadlift is at 135/155 kilos, however my bench is Somalia-tier poverty at 75kg, which is why I wanted to increase the frequency

@Wilhelm

DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:43 pm

This Hanley's new 3 week scheme which he debuted in another thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3421

Oh, so that routine is intended for people with multiple years of experience? Probably not suitable then. Someone recommend it to me as I wanted to move to 4x a week

You could probably run it just fine.

I give ranges in both session volume and reps-per-set...so you can scale to personal needs/abilities. I'd probably stick to the low/medium range for session volume and high end of the range for reps per set for someone with your training background.

You could probably run it just fine.

I give ranges in both session volume and reps-per-set...so you can scale to personal needs/abilities. I'd probably stick to the low/medium range for session volume and high end of the range for reps per set for someone with your training background.

I started as a skinny fat, with most of my time training being on a cut, so I'm definitely underdeveloped in terms of muscle, especially in the upper body. Is that a probably with most of the training being lower reps, even on the high end of the scale?

DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:22 amIs that a probably with most of the training being lower reps, even on the high end of the scale?

Post video of you benching an amrap with 70-75% of your max and I'll let you know what ballpark reps-per-set you should be using

Post video of you benching an amrap with 70-75% of your max and I'll let you know what ballpark reps-per-set you should be using

Sorry but in my current set up that's quite tough. At home alone I tried tapping my phone to a table leg to get the right height but both times the camera end up shutting off. For what it's worth I got 12 with 52.5kg (70%) and then immediately after I tried redoing it and got 11

Hanley wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am

DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:22 amIs that a probably with most of the training being lower reps, even on the high end of the scale?

Post video of you benching an amrap with 70-75% of your max and I'll let you know what ballpark reps-per-set you should be using

Also, as an aside, is there an objective time to stop within the rep ranges? Like reaching RPE9 or something?

DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:13 pm

Hanley wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am

DPriest442 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:22 amIs that a probably with most of the training being lower reps, even on the high end of the scale?

Post video of you benching an amrap with 70-75% of your max and I'll let you know what ballpark reps-per-set you should be using

Also, as an aside, is there an objective time to stop within the rep ranges? Like reaching RPE9 or something?

Okay....12 reps with 70% is standard. I think you can use the high-end of the rep range.

Drop reps-per-set to get target session volume when you hit RPE 8 (for 82% e1RM or less) or RPE 9 (over 85%).

If you start hitting RPE 8/9 on the low-end of reps-per-set, stop the session.