2-Week "Montana Method" Template

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PC
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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1361

Post by PC » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:51 am

Hanley wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:09 am Just make power-hypertrophy or power-strength hybrid sessions.

2-5 singles between 85-90% (power), then

6 x 5 @ ~70-72% (for power-hyp hybrid...) OR

A buncha doubles and triples with ~80% for hybrid power-strength
Great. I considered mashing a couple together but the overall session volume considerations took me outside me comfort zone. I'm trying to keep my sessions short, 2 lifts in 30-40 minutes, so something's got to give.

I hate to be hyper-specific, but I think we all recognize that characteristic in this group at Exodus, so:

I see power is present in both of your hybrid sessions, is that because the low volume nature of a power session lends itself better to being combined with another flavor?

And, say day 1 was this H/P hybrid, would you devote day 2 entirely to S, or hybridize it with whatever components were compromised in the first session? I guess I'm trying to tease out how you weigh these sessions.

Many thanks for all your free advice. I've shared your work within my circle and its prompted many to step up their programming knowledge/research. I hope to give back to the community when I feel equipped for the topic!

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Hanley
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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1362

Post by Hanley » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:20 pm

PC wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:51 amI see power is present in both of your hybrid sessions, is that because the low volume nature of a power session lends itself better to being combined with another flavor?
Yeah. So long as you keep fatigue in check, power won't mess-up hypertrophy or strength. But Hypertrophy and Strength Work completely undermine power/neuro/skill work.

If it were my program, I'd probably stick Power/Neuro with Hypertrophy and make Strength its own session. If this were early in a block, you could just leave power out and simply alternate Hyp and Strength.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1363

Post by Wilhelm » Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:20 pm

Not commenting on the previous few posts with this, but i've decided to run strength only for bench, but all 3 sessions per week

I decided today that i would add a set to all sessions in week one, making it 18 reps, which matches the week two scheme for overall rep count.
I've dropped the CGBP to make deadlift day/P day more manageable, and am doing Dips 4 to 6 days per week instead.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1364

Post by CoolColJ » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:04 am

So I did some upper body AMRAPs today to test my strength.

Straight bar dips - shoulder width grip to sternum - AMRAP - BW x20@ RPE 9
inverted rows - undergrip - AMRAP - BW x16.75 @RPE 10

Damn big strength increases across the board!
The last time I maxed inverted rows a few weeks back I did 12, and since then I've mostly done sub-maximal explosive 3-4 sets of 6-8, about 50% of rep max. Every 4 days
The same for the straight bar dips, last rep max was 10, started with 2x7 and moved to 2x10.
Both are all time PRs as well.

Goes to show you don't need to train anywhere near failure to get stronger, and recruit your fast twitch fibers, as long as it's explosive, and I'm sure I've gained size in my type 2X fibers due to the training style.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1365

Post by Cleverusername » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:08 pm

I’m in the middle of my forth cycle of this. Squats are going great, the intensities/rep ranges keep me from doing squat-mornings. I dare say I’m enjoying squatting again.

Bench velocities are getting a little stagnant. This current cycle I’m experimenting with auto-regulating volume on H days using the 20/15 rule from the VBT thread.

Was also considering adding another bench variant (DB bench?) somewhere, maybe S day?

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1366

Post by gtl » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:52 am

Hanley wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:09 am Just make power-hypertrophy or power-strength hybrid sessions.

2-5 singles between 85-90% (power), then

6 x 5 @ ~70-72% (for power-hyp hybrid...) OR

A buncha doubles and triples with ~80% for hybrid power-strength
buncha= 8 sets? 10 sets? 12 sets?

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1367

Post by Hanley » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:06 am

gtl wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:52 am
Hanley wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:09 am Just make power-hypertrophy or power-strength hybrid sessions.

2-5 singles between 85-90% (power), then

6 x 5 @ ~70-72% (for power-hyp hybrid...) OR

A buncha doubles and triples with ~80% for hybrid power-strength
buncha= 8 sets? 10 sets? 12 sets?
6-8 maybe. Max number of sets you still recover from intersession.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1368

Post by augeleven » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:28 pm

Here is a kind of block review of my latest run of MM, from 1/5/2020 to 3/5/2020 or 9 weeks. I changed a bunch of things, probably violating the spirit of the whole thing; I lived, laughed, loved and maybe even learned a thing or two.

tldr: I moved deadlift to first on Monday, low bar squatted on power day, high bar on strength day and front squats on hypertrophy day. Squat blew up, deadlift did ok and bench stagnated. I missed chins, rows and stupid bro stuff I was doing. 8/10 would run again, but there are other programs I wanna try first.

My “Montana Method, Mostly” (MMM) template
*Monday*
Deadlift - alternating triples across and GZCL GG style top set and singles
Bench - first 4 weeks HVLF 7s, last 4 weeks H-day 5s
Front Squat w/ straps -3 sets of 6

*Wednesday*
Low Bar Squat - work up to a top single, 3-5 back off singles
Bench - same as above, with a long pause and more back-offs
CGBP - 1-3 sets of high rep close-ish to failure
Deadlift - work up to a single @8ish (last 4 weeks only)
Other stuff curls, metcons, light jogging etc.

*Friday*
High Bar Squat - Strength day triple across
Bench - HVLF 5’s then strength day triples for the second half
SGDL for the first half, Block Pulls for the second

*Non lifting days*
I did some treadmill work. In the 9 weeks I ran 15 times and incline walked 7. January’s running was intervals and February was superslow Maffetone running.

But Why?
Here are some rationales for the changes I made:
-I moved my main deadlift to first on Mondays because I don’t like training deadlifts fatigued.
-I used three variants for squat. I hadn’t low barred since spring of 2017, when my elbow pain officially overwhelmed my need to DTFP. So I cautiously introduced low bar with singles only on power day. I probably could/should have done more front squat volume, but I think I don’t respond as well to high volume in the squat.
-I did no extra pulling (chins or rows) in an attempt to keep my elbows happy.
-I went with a one week microcycle for simplicity and so I could put more weight on the bar faster than I should have [/s]

Progression
This was initially meant as a 10-11 week run up to a meet, but the meet was cancelled.
The original plan was to start light, add weight each week, then drop reps as I got closer to the meet, like an adlib linear periodization

Issues
After 4 weeks I was feeling pretty run down so I took a light deload week. I also shifted from a HVLF approach on bench to something to week 1 on MM classic. I also ditched SGDL for block pulls because I hate SGDLS so very much.

Results
Because my meet was cancelled, and I developed some weird guitar related wrist pain, I didn’t test my lifts in a meet situation. I did, however, max out my squat. I low barred 365 for a single at around RPE 9. My previous best was a super grindy 335 done high bar. I also tripled 300 high bar, where my previous best was 275. Bench didn’t seem to move: I got 265 paused, my previous best from a year ago was 280 TnG. Maybe I was using too high an intensity on bench? My wrist couldn’t handle deadlifting, so I didn’t get a chance to test it, but my e1rm was up 20-25 pounds and I had pulled 500 with straps from mid shin, so that was cool.

What Now
It’s spring, so I’m currently focused on getting my cardio together and enjoy outside running. Lifting will be in maintenance mode for at least another month. I really liked the setup I had going for the squat. I may try Hanley’s new 3 week program, but with less squat volume and some variation in the lower lifts.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1369

Post by DannyP » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:04 am

How is this for de-mindfucking (heavy singles)/adding variety to the MM squat template:

W1D1
4x5@70%
2x5@63% (.9x70%) paused

W1D3
1x2@85%
1x2@83%
1x2@83%-5lbs
1x2@83%-10lbs

W1D5
As written

W2D1
As written
or
3x4@75%
4x3@67.5% (.9x75%) paused

W2D3
2x2@84%
4x1@84%

W2D5
As written

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1370

Post by JeanLannes » Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:15 pm

Is there a particular reason for this extreme specificity?
Image
No variations whatsoever?

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1371

Post by Hanley » Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:26 pm

JeanLannes wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:15 pm Is there a particular reason for this extreme specificity?
I think variation of relative intensity is a "variation". Moreso than subtle shift's in joint-angle, implement, or volitional tempo.

But also I'm also a fan of zen...which encourages endless refinement of simple tasks.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1372

Post by JeanLannes » Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:41 pm

Hanley wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:26 pm
JeanLannes wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:15 pm Is there a particular reason for this extreme specificity?
I think variation of relative intensity is a "variation". Moreso than subtle shift's in joint-angle, implement, or volitional tempo.

But also I'm also a fan of zen...which encourages endless refinement of simple tasks.
I guess that makes sense. Do you think that's valuable long term? I've heard that variations help to reduce injuries. Also, is there a reason the deadlift rep scheme is quite different to the squat? Almost nothing above triples

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1373

Post by Hanley » Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:56 pm

JeanLannes wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:41 pm I've heard that variations help to reduce injuries.
Well, let's back up. What's a variation? Change in joint angle? How much? Change in tempo? Change in implement?

If you strongly believe that changes in joint angle mitigate injury risk, then I think you should respect that (maybe irrational) belief and do a template with lots of variations of joint-angle. The mind is powerful.

JeanLannes wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:41 pm is there a reason the deadlift rep scheme is quite different to the squat? Almost nothing above triples
Higher relative intensities on deadlift. AND...you're going to have residual lumbar fatigue from squats, so I'm trying to work around that.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1374

Post by 413x » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:04 pm

JeanLannes wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:15 pm Is there a particular reason for this extreme specificity?
There's BP, OHP and Pushups. I've seen plenty of powerlifting programs with less movement variation, for the bench press work. Different intensities change the kinematics of a lift. For example a light squat requires you to bend over more in order to stay balanced, this may be comparable to different bar positions. In general your body position and movement velocity change depending on the load so intensity variation achieves some of the same things that movement variation achieves.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1375

Post by JeanLannes » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:05 pm

Well, let's back up. What's a variation? Change in joint angle? How much? Change in tempo? Change in implement?

If you strongly believe that changes in joint angle mitigate injury risk, then I think you should respect that (maybe irrational) belief and do a template with lots of variations of joint-angle. The mind is powerful.
I'm not really an expert. I've heard Mike T talk about how using a hyper specific approach can lead to overuse injuries, how using the same movement patterns can neglect certain muscles, and how slightly altering movement patterns can help detect errors in the main movement pattern that may go unnoticed

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1376

Post by Hanley » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:11 pm

JeanLannes wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:05 pm
Well, let's back up. What's a variation? Change in joint angle? How much? Change in tempo? Change in implement?

If you strongly believe that changes in joint angle mitigate injury risk, then I think you should respect that (maybe irrational) belief and do a template with lots of variations of joint-angle. The mind is powerful.
I'm not really an expert. I've heard Mike T talk about how using a hyper specific approach can lead to overuse injuries, how using the same movement patterns can neglect certain muscles, and how slightly altering movement patterns can help detect errors in the main movement pattern that may go unnoticed
Are you worried this 3-week template might be injurious?

I think the variation in intensity yields an "interleaving" effect...which is what Mike is talking about when it comes to error detection.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1377

Post by JeanLannes » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:13 pm

Are you worried this 3-week template might be injurious?
No, It's just different to most of the programs I see, most programs I see with 4x a week benching would probably have comp bench once, and then 3 close variations such as close grip, incline or paused

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1378

Post by Hanley » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:14 pm

JeanLannes wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:13 pm
Are you worried this 3-week template might be injurious?
No, It's just different to most of the programs I see, most programs I see with 4x a week benching would probably have comp bench once, and then 3 close variations such as close grip, incline or paused
Full disclosure: I think most bench programs for natty lifters are pretty bad.

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1379

Post by JeanLannes » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:17 pm

Full disclosure: I think most bench programs for natty lifters are pretty bad.
Why is that?

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Re: 2-Week "Montana Method" Template

#1380

Post by Hanley » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:21 pm

JeanLannes wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:17 pm
Full disclosure: I think most bench programs for natty lifters are pretty bad.
Why is that?
I'd rather not totally derail this thread. You can DM on IG or something (barbellhacks).

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