2-Week "Montana Method" Template

[Hanley]

At roughly what percentage would you implement those?

Not sure. Just keep the sets in ~RPE 5-7 zone

[Mindtowork]

@Mindtowork, is it the grip on the SGDLs that is the issue?

I use straps, even though the weights are lighter.
I also turn my feet out more to get my knees out of the way of the bar.
Alan Thrall has a decent video on this, i'll see if i can find it.

There is some measurement for figuring out how wide to grip to fit your body.
I don't remember it now, but something about measuring your wingspan. I remember i had my wife help.

In any case, index on the rings is what i came up with for myself.

well for one i can't figure out to keep ftom beating my meat In public when I do them and it just feels....so much awkward. im gonna have to experiment with different grip widths

[DannyP]

I posted about this a bit on the "technique" forum, but I think there's a more philosophical angle to bring up here...

When it comes to the second squat session of a "Week 2" cycle, what is better: completing the final single at 92-3% but likely missing depth, never going above 90% but hitting depth pretty regularly, or eliminating the 90% lift from that session and going right from 82% to 92%?

The final two singles on that day are always high for me, so it's possible I've added weight to the bar (5# from previous identical session) faster than I've added to my true 1RM. I think more likely I'm having difficulty doing 1@90% and then another at 92-3% a few minutes later. Unfortunately, in a psychological attempt to "save something" for that final lift, I always come in a little shallow on the 90% one, too.

So, what to do...

[Hanley]

I posted about this a bit on the "technique" forum, but I think there's a more philosophical angle to bring up here...

When it comes to the second squat session of a "Week 2" cycle, what is better: completing the final single at 92-3% but likely missing depth, never going above 90% but hitting depth pretty regularly, or eliminating the 90% lift from that session and going right from 82% to 92%?

I don't think it really matters.

What matters is that you execute your intentions. If you're okay with a "zone of acceptable depth" (this is my default for non-competitors...I don't give the slightest shit if a non-powerlifter squats 2" high), then make sure you're in that zone.

If you want comp depth, hit comp depth.

If you want to turn Wednesday squats into box/bench squats...cool.

But absolutely execute within your intended parameters.

[Wilhelm]

I hesitated to reply again on your technique thread, but one way to go, and what i've adopted, is to back things off as far as your e1RM, and be more concerned about speed of the reps at given weights compared to what you've done with those weights previously.

Before my layoff, 365 was my last top squat single, and my meet max is 413
So 92% would be about 380.

This approach might not lend itself to short term gains (i don't know), but my 365 was a clear speed PR, and my form was better too, as i had been training consistently a bit farther from the leading edge of my max.
My idea was to keep going long term, and eventually PR my squat in the course of regular training.

I'm going forward with the same approach as i start in again this year.

In any case, it's common advice to lighten up the weight when you are dealing with issues of form.

I do think you can get stronger while not being quite as close to the edge of your max for those singles.

[DannyP]

I posted about this a bit on the "technique" forum, but I think there's a more philosophical angle to bring up here...

When it comes to the second squat session of a "Week 2" cycle, what is better: completing the final single at 92-3% but likely missing depth, never going above 90% but hitting depth pretty regularly, or eliminating the 90% lift from that session and going right from 82% to 92%?

I don't think it really matters.

What matters is that you execute your intentions. If you're okay with a "zone of acceptable depth" (this is my default for non-competitors...I don't give the slightest shit if a non-powerlifter squats 2" high), then make sure you're in that zone.

If you want comp depth, hit comp depth.

If you want to turn Wednesday squats into box/bench squats...cool.

But absolutely execute within your intended parameters.

My goal as far as "gains" is: get and stay reasonably strong, while knowing I'm unlikely to ever become unreasonably strong.

As to depth goals, I've always strived to break parallel because a) its ingrained in me due to SSSS (Starting Strength Stockholm Syndrome) and b) parallel is a good goal because it's fairly easy to gauge from film and something consistent to calibrate against. Don't want to end up going a half-inch higher each time till I'm quarter-squatting like a bro in a moisture-wicking tank top and squishy-soled sneakers.

[Hanley]

I posted about this a bit on the "technique" forum, but I think there's a more philosophical angle to bring up here...

When it comes to the second squat session of a "Week 2" cycle, what is better: completing the final single at 92-3% but likely missing depth, never going above 90% but hitting depth pretty regularly, or eliminating the 90% lift from that session and going right from 82% to 92%?

I don't think it really matters.

What matters is that you execute your intentions. If you're okay with a "zone of acceptable depth" (this is my default for non-competitors...I don't give the slightest shit if a non-powerlifter squats 2" high), then make sure you're in that zone.

If you want comp depth, hit comp depth.

If you want to turn Wednesday squats into box/bench squats...cool.

But absolutely execute within your intended parameters.

My goal as far as "gains" is: get and stay reasonably strong, while knowing I'm unlikely to ever become unreasonably strong.

As to depth goals, I've always strived to break parallel because a) its ingrained in me due to SSSS (Starting Strength Stockholm Syndrome) and b) parallel is a good goal because it's fairly easy to gauge from film and something consistent to calibrate against. Don't want to end up going a half-inch higher each time till I'm quarter-squatting like a bro in a moisture-wicking tank top and squishy-soled sneakers.

Then drop load and get to parallel.

That'll be $300

[DannyP]

Today (a "week 2" third session) was as close to a "grind" as I've had on the program. Everything just felt a little out of sync and bar speed was definitely impacted, depth, too, a little. Simplest thing to do would be to just drop all loads a bit. Was also contemplating adding a third week to the cycle, one that was a little easier and also just different set/rep combos so I could spread out the additions to the weight a little more. I have four questions:

1. Good idea, or total shit?

2. Should one week always be programmed to be a little easier than the other two, to aid in recovery, or should they all continue to build on one another?

3. Would this make sense for squat (lowering everything by 3-5% if it's meant as a "light" week):

Session 1: 7x4 @ 72%

Session 2: 1 @ 75%, 1 @ 85%, 1 @ 90%, 1x2 @ 85%, 1x2 @ 80%, 1x2 @ 75%

Session 3: 8x2 @ 82%

4. Where would you program in a day like that, second or third week in cycle?

[GlasgowJock]

Today (a "week 2" third session) was as close to a "grind" as I've had on the program. Everything just felt a little out of sync and bar speed was definitely impacted, depth, too, a little. Simplest thing to do would be to just drop all loads a bit.

Sometimes it's just a crap session due to x factors leaving you insufficiently rested. In retrospect if you felt 'off' you could have just done the session tomorrow once sufficiently recovered (if your life allows). Otherwise, if I feel the session's going to be a crap shoot due to not enough sleep, calories etc throughout the day (work) then I'll just auto-regulate and get the minimum done.

If you're consistently feeling lots of sessions you're going into not fully recovered due to life, just auto-regulate in general (I like RPE caps myself). Some days you're weak, get the minimum in, other days life is good, do a little extra.

[DannyP]

Today (a "week 2" third session) was as close to a "grind" as I've had on the program. Everything just felt a little out of sync and bar speed was definitely impacted, depth, too, a little. Simplest thing to do would be to just drop all loads a bit.

Sometimes it's just a crap session due to x factors leaving you insufficiently rested. In retrospect if you felt 'off' you could have just done the session tomorrow once sufficiently recovered (if your life allows). Otherwise, if I feel the session's going to be a crap shoot due to not enough sleep, calories etc throughout the day (work) then I'll just auto-regulate and get the minimum done.

If you're consistently feeling lots of sessions you're going into not fully recovered due to life, just auto-regulate in general (I like RPE caps myself). Some days you're weak, get the minimum in, other days life is good, do a little extra.

Yea, this was more "off" in that I didn't feel my stance was ever quite right, or the bar in just the right spot sort of thing, leading to too much forward weight shift, etc. And just couldn't get it to click. Still finished all reps (even if a few were higher than I wanted), but there were way too many sets at RPE 10. One bad session is just that, but if it becomes an issue I want to have a plan.

Also, I really, really like this program overall, and if turning it into a three-week cycle instead of two means extending its life further, I'm all in!

[Wilhelm]

Just run lighter and longer, as per my previous post.

Especially since you have no competitions to schedule around.
Pile up those cycles, and see how you're doing in six months, or a year.

[DannyP]

Just run lighter and longer, as per my previous post.

Especially since you have no competitions to schedule around.
Pile up those cycles, and see how you're doing in six months, or a year.

How do you program the lighter/longer? Do you just arbitrarily decide to drop X%, work back up to however high you can, then rinse and repeat? Or do you just start doing repeats of the same weights, whereby a "full" cycle is now four weeks instead of two?

[Wilhelm]

How do you program the lighter/longer? Do you just arbitrarily decide to drop X%, work back up to however high you can, then rinse and repeat? Or do you just start doing repeats of the same weights, whereby a "full" cycle is now four weeks instead of two?

I started e1rms about 10% under all my meet maxes for squat and DL, took a week off post meet, and ran 11 cycles.
I was very conservative with load increases.
Steady, but very conservative.

So by cycles 10 or 11, top power day squat was 365, which is 88% of the prior meet max.
So after 22 weeks, i was still running just at prior meet 1RMs for setting my weights.

( I also just noticed you mentioned singles at 92% for week 2
I have 87% to 90% in my spreadsheet, and use 88% as my default.
Might want to dial that back, if nothing else.)

I simply was not concerned with the weight of the top singles at that point.
The plan was to keep from getting beat up, and run out the year, late June to April.
Speed on the 365 was better than ever though.
So i started light, and took small weight jumps.
I'd have to look at my log, but i did some kind of low stress thing right around cycle 11.
It may have been as minor as repeating a cycle and not bumping weight.

There was other fatigue from a pretty aggressive weighted dips schedule i was keeping, and i was running my bench at a higher % of true max.
I view that choice (bench) as a mistake, and will be keeping an eye on it this time around.

I still barely needed any deload/low stress adjustment.
I'm pretty sure i would have continued all the way till now, and done my planned April meet.
By then i would have PRd my squat and DL but as easy singles, in the regular progression of training.

I do a small adjustment to P day to intensify top singles close to a meet, but for the most part just keep doing everything normally.

Eh, i think i've contemplated dropping squat H day for a second S day semi close to a contest, but haven't tried that yet.
For now, i am actually doing S day for bench 3 days a week, dropping H and P days altogether.
I have a good feeling about that.
Supplementing with dips.

Of course, i had to take a layoff because of a hernia, so this approach is yet to be proven, but i know i was going to PR squat, and especially DL at the end.
So far, i love MM for my DL.

Another idea i'd like to try out for low stress, later in a long run, is to increase load, and drop sets for a week, then pick up full cycles again with that same load after one week.

[plaguewielder]

If the idea is to impose the amount of stress that you can recover from in 48h: how do you know if you selected the right amount considering the sessions are so low RPE? Soreness or perception of fatigue also probably aren't hood proxies.

[Wilhelm]

If the idea is to impose the amount of stress that you can recover from in 48h: how do you know if you selected the right amount considering the sessions are so low RPE? Soreness or perception of fatigue also probably aren't hood proxies.

I left off with H dy squats at sets of 310, and DL 365 5 sets of 4.
S day squat sets were 338.
It's not like i was fresh as a daisy after sessions or on rest days.
Just consistently not beat up.

I was getting plenty of stress.
You can go max recoverable volume and reset/deload often, or you can go useful volume and just keep piling up cycles.

I intensify singles closer to a meet, of course.

*Side note, during this run, i was also doing dips 7 days a week for a full three months, eventually loading them up to 45lbs.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2868&start=20

I won't allow myself to not increase my total at a meet at any point i can yet imagine.
Training age is young, as i'm just starting year 4, but i think i have a pretty good idea of if i'm working hard enough.

[plaguewielder]

If the idea is to impose the amount of stress that you can recover from in 48h: how do you know if you selected the right amount considering the sessions are so low RPE? Soreness or perception of fatigue also probably aren't hood proxies.

You can go max recoverable volume and reset/deload often, or you can go useful volume and just keep piling up cycles.

This sounds smart. Thanks for it.

[Wilhelm]

Just seat of the pants, i am sure i was well above Minimum Effective Dose.
Not doing Easy Strength, by any stretch.

I recognize this might not be a good fit if you're trying to do an 8 or 12 week prep for a test or contest.
And it could just be specific to me, or someone like me, whatever that means.

Importantly, i like it better/enjoy it more.

[Hanley]

how do you know if you selected the right amount considering the sessions are so low RPE?

If you come up with a reliable/repeatable tool that's user-friendly to determine this, you'll make a lot of money.

I've always thought power production using a standard load was the best option for crudely gauging fatigue...but I think recent literature suggests that isn't the case. Fuck.

[PC]

If you're limited to squatting only 2x a week, could you drop a letter from the HPS cycle, only repeating two of the letters weekly?

OR

Stretch the HPS cycle over 1.5 weeks?

OR

Other?

[Wilhelm]

Other?

Blocks of two letters at a time?